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  #19  
Old 12-22-2006, 12:37 PM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

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Originally Posted by SubJunk
I think in western culture until true AI is developed this won't happen. The law is so interpretive for a reason, it's because there often isn't enough evidence to completely know whether a person is guilty or not. Juries with emotions and other human characteristics are essential because even in cases where the defendant looks 99% guilty, he or she may not be, and it can take real people to analyze the defendant's personality to see that.
I'm a firm believer that it's possible in the future to develop AI that is indistinguishable from humans, but until then I think there are more subtle variables in court than just "data".

Until AI is properly developed then, surely there should be some sort of stricter criterea for serving as a juror, would you agree with that, SJ?



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  #20  
Old 12-22-2006, 12:57 PM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

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Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Until AI is properly developed then, surely there should be some sort of stricter criterea for serving as a juror, would you agree with that, SJ?
That depends if you think democracy is a good idea or not. In a true democracy (which is an unrealistic ideal that no country follows, least of all western countries the U.S.) jury duty would be truly random. If you don't think democracy is a good ideal to strive towards then yes stricter criteria could be an option. I personally think democracy is the fairest way to do things.
What do you think?


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  #21  
Old 12-22-2006, 02:12 PM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

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Originally Posted by SubJunk
That depends if you think democracy is a good idea or not. In a true democracy (which is an unrealistic ideal that no country follows, least of all western countries the U.S.) jury duty would be truly random. If you don't think democracy is a good ideal to strive towards then yes stricter criteria could be an option. I personally think democracy is the fairest way to do things.
What do you think?
Well, I have been a juror, and it was quite a serious case.

Honestly, one or two of the jurors were saying things like, "I know the evidence doesn't look strong, however he has a guilty face".... :confused:

Or even worst, one person wanted to get a quick verdict so that she would not miss her fav tv programme, so I would say either develop what I suggested, or at least have professional jurors, who would at least have a bit of a clue....




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  #22  
Old 12-22-2006, 04:42 PM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Until AI is properly developed then, surely there should be some sort of stricter criterea for serving as a juror, would you agree with that, SJ?

Again, I am only familiar with the US but here it's difficult for the courts to get any jurors to serve. People opt out all the time for personal or financial reasons so toughening the criteria to be a juror would cut the pool down alot. Sounds like we end up with the dregs of society sitting on juries but for some reason that doesn't seem to be true. Our system is obviously flawed but somehow it works pretty well. I don't know enough about AI to know whether or not it could replace a jury but I'm up for any improvements. It does appear though that the same technology that helps prosicutors helps the inocent too as we've seen some go free because of dna testing.


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  #23  
Old 12-22-2006, 05:07 PM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

The US and of A should adopt Kazakhstans legal system.
They have problem of Jew and Gypsies

"In Kazakhstan we say man who has never killed a man is like man with no khram.."Borat

The banking system is transparent and well-governed, the currency has been well managed and banking is reliable. Money hasn’t disappeared and banks haven’t failed. This is the foundation point for the country’s development. There’s tremendous potential – in ten years this place will look like Duba

"There is land of opportunities in US of A. For man, construction work, taxi driving and accountancy. For woman, as a prostitute."


But Kazakhstan they can fix US and of A legal system with tear of Gypsie
The US could be on the verge of great things in the world and become a shining example of sustainability, stability, and democracy
People of US and of A will increasingly desire protection under a legal system they feel is not corrupt, and they will demand government services that are accountable to the public. Businessmen, big and small, will also require that its state’s legal system can protect them from hostile takeovers and intimidation by influential gays in the country.

“Throw the Jew down the well, so my country can be free, you must grab him by the horns, then we have a big party”
Borat


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  #24  
Old 12-22-2006, 05:41 PM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Robot juries, eh?
Better artificial intelligence, than no intelligence at all?
I like the notion - fantastical though it is - of Better Justice Through Technology; if we can't build better law, we'll build a better man for the law...

...and then I remember an old phrase, something like " the law was made for man, not man for the law."
Some old, mad Nazarene prophet said it, apparently.


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  #25  
Old 12-22-2006, 07:35 PM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr poormouth
Robot juries, eh?
Better artificial intelligence, than no intelligence at all?
I like the notion - fantastical though it is - of Better Justice Through Technology; .
:)

Now we have the idea, and a great working title.


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  #26  
Old 12-23-2006, 12:50 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
Well, I have been a juror, and it was quite a serious case.

Honestly, one or two of the jurors were saying things like, "I know the evidence doesn't look strong, however he has a guilty face".... :confused:

Or even worst, one person wanted to get a quick verdict so that she would not miss her fav tv programme, so I would say either develop what I suggested, or at least have professional jurors, who would at least have a bit of a clue....
Who are you to make the judgement that he didn't have a "guilty face"? To you it might be a stupid thing to say, and I'm not the kind of person who would say that either, but to say it's not a valid judgement for that person to make means you're placing your own moral opinions above other people's.

Your country was founded on a set of moral ideals that have never been achieved for this very reason, because some people think their judgement is more valid than other people's. That isn't democracy, that's selective democracy which isn't a democracy at all.


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  #27  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:22 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubJunk
Who are you to make the judgement that he didn't have a "guilty face"? To you it might be a stupid thing to say, and I'm not the kind of person who would say that either, but to say it's not a valid judgement for that person to make means you're placing your own moral opinions above other people's.

Your country was founded on a set of moral ideals that have never been achieved for this very reason, because some people think their judgement is more valid than other people's. That isn't democracy, that's selective democracy which isn't a democracy at all.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, his country is the UK, sub.


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  #28  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:28 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubJunk
Who are you to make the judgement that he didn't have a "guilty face"? To you it might be a stupid thing to say, and I'm not the kind of person who would say that either, but to say it's not a valid judgement for that person to make means you're placing your own moral opinions above other people's.

Your country was founded on a set of moral ideals that have never been achieved for this very reason, because some people think their judgement is more valid than other people's. That isn't democracy, that's selective democracy which isn't a democracy at all.
Excuse me, what are you talking about?

You cannot convict someone on how they 'look', are you mad?

Any more than a juror should not rush through a verdict because they want to watch their fav programme.


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  #29  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:29 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
Just so there's no misunderstanding, his country is the UK, sub.
What are you, his shadow?


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  #30  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:30 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
Just so there's no misunderstanding, his country is the UK, sub.
Ah, thanks for pointing that out. My bad, I kindof just assume everyone here is American haha, stupid habit but it's often true. My post can go to the Americans here then :)


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  #31  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:34 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

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Originally Posted by SubJunk
Ah, thanks for pointing that out. My bad, I kindof just assume everyone here is American haha, stupid habit but it's often true. My post can go to the Americans here then :)
Why do you assume this, you are meant to be a mod, yet are not, it seems, from the US.

Besides which, it is irrelevant, because to form a view on someone as they have a 'guilty face' is highly subjective, and likely to be wrong.

Do you think that you could spot a paedophile?


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  #32  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:34 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubJunk
Ah, thanks for pointing that out. My bad, I kindof just assume everyone here is American haha, stupid habit but it's often true. My post can go to the Americans here then :)

I knew you were aiming at me. :D


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  #33  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:38 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
You cannot convict someone on how they 'look', are you mad?
No, I'm not mad, and there is no need to make personal attacks.

Mannerisms are very important in determining the mindset of someone and therefore whether a crime fits their personality. Many sciences are based on observing people, criminal psychologists and therapists are often used in courts.
Do you not think evaluation of a person's personality, physical mannerisms, etc. are valid in determining guilt?


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  #34  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:39 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

BTW sub. You're a reasonoble chap. What bone is it that you have to pick with our constitution. I'd like a shot at defending it without someone calling me a bunch of names.


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  #35  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:41 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubJunk
No, I'm not mad, and there is no need to make personal attacks.

Mannerisms are very important in determining the mindset of someone and therefore whether a crime fits their personality. Many sciences are based on observing people, criminal psychologists and therapists are often used in courts.
Do you not think evaluation of a person's personality, physical mannerisms, etc. are valid in determining guilt?
Personality is not the same as someone that I served on a jury with saying that they (the accused), 'did not have much evidence against them, but looked guilty'....

Once more, could you spot a paedo, based on their mannerisms, looks, or, okay, their personality.

Yes or no?


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  #36  
Old 12-23-2006, 02:43 AM
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Re: Modernising the legal system through technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
What are you, his shadow?

Sub's shaddow? :D Thanks for the complement but as much as I wish I had his intelligence, alas, I go my own way. :cool:



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