What is "Health Career Agents"?

[NLO08]

I keep seeing "medical recruiter" jobs listed at monster.com so I finally clicked on the link and found "Health Career Agents". It looks like the same type of things as Strategic Research Network's "Assistant Internet Researcher" which may not fully be scam but sure smells kind of fishy to me. But anyway, I'm slightly confused. What would this "Health Career Agent" do?

Thanks if you can help.

[borisf96]

You basically have to find health practitioners and employers. It is the same job as health care recruiters do.

As much as I figured out. Agents/Owners after some online training to get their recruiting website and knowledge how to mass mail to attract people to their website. It is affiliate marketing for health care recruitment sector.

I doubt that you will be paid too much. All qualified work(unless this is total scam with high sign-up fee) will be done either by software or by real professionals. You are there to advertise and generate leads.

[rs_co]

This is my first post to scam.com, but I've been an avid reader for a long time. Thank you to the many insightful participants.

My wife and I have tried many different business ventures in the past with varying degrees of success. We were recently exposed to Health Career Agents (www.healthcareeragents.com) and found their proposal to be a very interesting one.
We are considering becoming Owner/Operators, not Sales Consultants or Researchers. The initial investment seems to be very reasonable for a business opportunity the provides a viable entry in to a potentially very lucrative industry. The key word being viable, if this is not legitimate than your gonna be out some serious dough.

We are beginning the due diligence process despite the somewhat less than glowing reception that HCA, and it's sister company SRN, have received here on scam.com. This appears, at face value, to be a serious opportunity to work from home in a huge growth market. I've read enough scam.com to have a basic feel for when something is a red herring or to good to be true. Despite the fact that there are some red flags here, e.g. the monster.com adds that folks have referred to frequently, there is a lot of good sound business practices in their plan.

First, let me offer that whatever conclusions we come to I will try to report all my findings back to this forum.
Second, I really would like some insight from anyone who has any experience with this company as an owner or the sister company SRN. Has anyone actually evaluated this as a business investment? What conclusions have you come to? The one thing that I wish they would be more forthright about in their literature is average earnings and time involvement. For example, how long did it take the average Owner/Operator to achieve their first sale? What is the average income for a O/O, how long has the average business been operating? How many business O/Os are there in North America? Internationally?

I'm going to continue my due diligence, in the mean time if anyone has any insight I would certainly appreciate it.

[tina3666]

I investigated the business model thoroughly and had my attorney do a fair amount of due diligence too. I believe it is a "real" business, with potential upside. At the same time, my conclusions are that health care recruiting involves a lot of hard work. I don't think most of the "dreamers/whiners" at scam.com are going to have what it takes to be successful in a business like this (or any other). I don't think it's a business for anyone who lacks sales skills or confidence in themselves. Quite frankly, that's something that attracts me to health care recruiting since I view it as a barrier to entry for competitors. Just my opinion.

My understanding is that the company can not make statements about average earnings or timelines because it's not a franchise. I would recommend doing your homework and paying St. Louis a visit, unannounced.

[francesj]

I am currently researching this opportunity and have found that the company is a member of Better Business Bureau, which has received no complaints about them in the past 36 months.

[nico2me]

Does anybody have any new information on this company? Any recent experience good or bad?

I am doing my research and comparing them with other "Health Care Recruiters" such as Medical Staffing Consultants, Brighstar Healthcare, White Glove Placements among others.

While Health Career Agents, Inc do not have any documentation of their success, the initial investment ("franchise fee") they require is relatively reasonable compared to others.

Thanks for any input and advise.

[Scambone]

I had a friend that used to be a recruiter for this company (i.e. work from home). While the company itself it NOT a scam, I would advise against doing this for multiple reasons.

The company (HCA) sells a franchise opportunity to a business owner who pays 50K and up for the opportunity to become an owner. The owner then "hires" recruiters from within HCA to work under his "tree" or business segment. This could be recruiters who are already in the network at the time the owner bought in, or new recruiters getting into the company and being assigned to an owner.

Here are some things to consider:

• HCA does not generate business or new business for the business owner. If the business owner is not aggressive or committed to constantly gaining new business and fostering relationships and getting in deeper with current clients, then the business is going to fail. My friend was in a situation where the business owner was only working actively with less than 5 accounts, in an attempt to support 5-6 recruiters. That won't work.

• HCA advertises for new recruiters EVERY day or nearly every day on monster.com and other job boards. I don't think there is much of a culling process to keep from flooding the "market" with new recruiters. I think the new recruiter is out $100 or some small amount. And they have to incorporate. So, although there is some initial investment - it is very minimal. This means that pretty much anyone who aspires to work from home and has minimal job skills can get in as a recruiter, thus flooding the market. My friend was in a situation where the peer organization was not generating any new business or jobs. Yet, the business owner was taking on 2-3 additional recruiters into the organization at that time who had signed on with HCA. This would be akin to a store who is not making any money going out and hiring additional employees. Something that any logical person would say you would not do.

• Pay cycles. Depending on the contract, the "hiring" company has up to 90 days to pay the business owner in some cases once the employee you found for them actually starts on the job. Once the business owner gets paid, he gets his portion and sends a check to HCA. HCA then takes their portion and sends a check to the recruiter. So the recruiter is the last one to get paid. This is great if you can afford to go 90 days between pay checks or if you are doing enough placements to be getting regular checks (which would take years to establish). Since most people can't afford to go more than 2 weeks without some sort of income, this is not a good plan to be on. Also, keep in mind that most employees (if leaving another job) give a 2 week notice. So this delays your getting paid by 2 more weeks. If they want any vacation or down time in between jobs, then you could potentially be waiting 4 months to be paid for an employee you placed.

• You are at the mercy of your client. My friend had many instances where they submitted candidates to client companies for jobs, only to have the client company sit on the job for weeks at a time. What I mean by that is that a candidate was submitted and the company showed no sense of urgency in setting up an interview or making a hiring decision. Sometimes it was that whoever was doing the interviewing or hiring was out on vacation, etc. Most of the time though it was just that the hiring authority was too "busy" or just plain lazy about making a decision. By the time that they finally got around to wanting to schedule an interview - the candidate had already accepted a job with another company. So all of the legwork you put into cold calling and finding a good fit - is out the window! Sometimes you could have hours invested into one person and if they don't get hired, then you don't get paid.

• Most of the easy healthcare jobs are filled through X company's HR department. Unless they are extremely lazy or just don't want to fool with it - a company is not going to pay a recruiting firm to find a candidate that they could easily find themselves. Therefore, you won't just be calling an RN that might be looking to change jobs and have them working the next week. The HCA jobs by and large are for specialized roles (sometimes VERY specialized) that the company has likely already been looking to fill and hasn't been able to turn anyone up. Someone with a dual degree in nursing and psychology with 10 year's experience is not easily found. And those type people are usually happily employed. Many of these type people are DIFFICULT to find and it takes hours, weeks, and sometimes months to locate a candidate that is just willing to submit their resume. Something to consider.

[tina3666]

Like most of you, I get email notifications when someone submits a post to this thread. Normally I wouldn't respond because it appears that most people at this site comment about businesses, or make absolute statements about companies, even though they appear to have limited first hand knowledge, or none at all.

While I appreciate the intentions in the post above, I would prefer to hear from the poster's "friend", rather than a removed party. I have a basic understanding of the company, and a more extensive knowledge of the recruiting industry, there appears to be a mix of accurate information along with inaccurate. I will add my two cents worth:

The poster writes: "While the company itself it NOT a scam"

>>I understand what the writer is saying, his friend didn't think the company was a scam. But do either really know? There were a lot of people who thought Enron wasn't a scam, until everything hit. I think any business requires due diligence and investigation. From what I have seen of the company they appear to encourage rigorous and direct analysis.

The post above states: "The company (HCA) sells a franchise opportunity"

>> Everything I have seen and heard emphasizes that the company is NOT a franchise.

The poster types: "The owner then "hires" recruiters from within HCA to work under his "tree" or business segment. This could be recruiters who are already in the network at the time the owner bought in, or new recruiters getting into the company and being assigned to an owner."

>> The company's website and employees say that they teach their "owners" how to recruit their own recruiters (consultants) up to 20 for the money they pay, and the company also recruits consultants for their owners. However, I have not seen any guarantees to that affect.

The statement is made by the poster that: "HCA advertises for new recruiters EVERY day or nearly every day on monster.com and other job boards. I don't think there is much of a culling process to keep from flooding the "market" with new recruiters."

>> On multiple archived radio shows at the company's website, the representation is made that they qualify applicants heavily and that fewer than 5% of applicants become recruiters or "consultants". This would be consistent with my experience in recruiting. Most people are NOT willing to sacrifice and do what it takes to be successful. BTW: if you listen to some of those radio show recordings with the company's "owners" you can learn a lot about the industry and how this company operates.

The poster adds: "My friend was in a situation where the peer organization was not generating any new business or jobs. Yet, the business owner was taking on 2-3 additional recruiters into the organization at that time who had signed on with HCA. This would be akin to a store who is not making any money going out and hiring additional employees. Something that any logical person would say you would not do."

>>I believe the poster's "friend" was working as a consultant with one of the company's "owner" offices. I don't think they have a lot of leverage in the arrangement from what I've seen and learned. Regardless, this type of "cattle call" approach is pretty typical in recruiting because it is hard to figure out who will do the work and who is going to give up before they get to the goal. Put three people on the phone, with great training, and one will make it. That has been my experience.

The poster writes: "Depending on the contract, the "hiring" company has up to 90 days to pay."

>> I have seen the company's agreement and it dictates payment in 15 days. But some employers require different terms and the company has stated they may agree to 30 days or even 45. The company has stated on its archived radio shows, and in the business plan it provides prospects, that they never condone agreements that allow for payment outside of that period of time. The company does reference an estimate of 90 days that anyone considering working as a recruiter (consultant) should be prepared to sustain themselves. Based on my experience, this is reasonable and accurate. In fact, it kind of tells me that the company is responsible in the representations they are making. Actually, I have heard consultants at the company's archived radio shows at their website talking about making substantial revenue (and giving specifics) inside of 30 days.

The poster went on to write: "You are at the mercy of your client... Sometimes you could have hours invested into one person and if they don't get hired, then you don't get paid."

>> In my experience, that's how headhunting or contingency based recruiting works. This is the trade off for getting paid tens of thousands of dollars when the employer DOES hire your candidate. It also is affected by the skills of the recruiter. My experience has been that a good recruiter can 3 to 4 candidates to make money on one, and that a not so good recruiter could have to present 7-8. The important thing is to not give up.

The poster adds: "a company is not going to pay a recruiting firm to find a candidate that they could easily find themselves."

>> Absolutely correct. Employers only pay recruiting fees when they can't get the candidate on their own. Out of the one million openings in healthcare, some portion are the variety that will not warrant a fee. Some portion will. It's a fact though that recruiting and staffing added up to $80 billion last year.

It sounds like your friend wasn't cut out for recruiting. Doesn't mean other people won't be better suited for it. Hope your friend finds something they're better suited for.

The other postings are so ridiculous. How can anyone take these individuals seriously when they have no factual information to share. The market appears to be far from saturated. The need for healthcare professionals is high now with an estimated one million open positions. Experts say it is going to continue for years to come.

[Scambone]

Tina:

Thanks so much for being the bastion of truth. Are you associated with HCA in any way?

[FDM127]

I am currently researching the Health Career Agent. I am just wondering how it could be started without the help of any organization. I would like to research it. Any information would be much appreciated.

[thinkfast]

I have bought into HCA and I can tell you that there is a possibility that you can make money, but I did not.

What HCA does not tell you is how very hard the recruiting business is, how many long hours you are expected to work and then after maybe 2 years you may see some results. I did not have the finances to wait that long and did it because I was told that I would have my success within a few months.

The fallout rate is huge at HCA. How do I know? HCA sets you up with a website company who hosts your site and pays for the first year out of your fees. Only 30% renew after a year and I know many who do don't make enough to pay bills.

I have all the training material and would be willing to part with it for a greatly reduced price.

[maximus1]

I to am researching HCA and actually received their agreement to proceed with the Agent program. I am concerned about what ThinkFast was saying in terms of HCA setting unrealistic expectations and painting a rosy picture when in fact the market is much more saturated and exceedingly challenging to make placements. I would be interested in talking to ThinkFast further about their experience and the training they received. I have never posted on a site like this so I'm not exactly sure how this all works. Any info you can share would be helpful as I am planning on sending back the paperwork in less than a week. Thanks

[scamhada]

Scambone & Tina, thanks alot for your contributions, I am currently considering this HCA opportunity as a possible O/O. I had just recently stumbled on it at careerbuilder website. Never posted on any site like "scam.com" before, but my and I are seriously considering this opportunity, I will appreciate any legit' information at this point. I wonder whatever happened to the poster "rs_co", since his last posting in 2007; he'd said he'd come back and give a feedback about his experience with this company, but no update from him yet. Attn Administrator! Can you pls help locate "rs_co"? I need some more testimonies plsss.

As stated by "nico2me", "Health Career Agents, Inc do not have any documentation of their success" anywhere and I wonder how to get some information on this. Secondly, I need to know the number of people who get involved annually compared to the number who actually made it far (turnover rate). What is the experience with HCA's biz &/or tech support line? I just recently listened to their radio broadcast of interviews with a few sales consultants and one owner operator, I was kindda impressed, but my curious mind still wanna know why the radio address has not been updated since 2007. Why is that? I'd like for them to produce a list of people or companies doing this same business in my area under their umbrella. I mean real doers that I can visit in my area, ofcourse I'd still visit their HQ unannounced. I'd also like to be sure that this is not a saturated mkt as alleged here. An insight into the avg earning potentials will be great as well.

The poster named "ggib" said "They have no documentation because only 2% are successful, and it is highly competitve and saturated! Too many people in the business!" I wonder if I could get with "ggib" to understand his/her insight better. Does anybody know if there is anyway to be an owner/operator, recruiter or sales consultant without going thru these companies, even if it means a little more hard work?

ATTN... "thinkfast" and "maximus", pls help me in whatever way possible. Thanks alot guys!!!

[FDM127]

Have you found out anything about this Health Care recruiter?

[thinkfast]

I think there is a need to set things straight for those reading or posting on this thread. I am an HCA agent. I bought the full package, I paid the money and own a recruiting company that is associated with the HCA network.

This is NOT a scam. Because to be a scam, the HCA folks would have to be lying to you to get your money. They are not lying, but I do believe they are not telling all the truth, as they fully admit it later on "after" you have signed.

I did not make the money I wished I had and I truly believe that I never will. Now, I am a perfect candidate to be bitter, but I am not. Recruiting is not for me and HCA did not vet me out. You speak with three existing agents and they each get $200 for interviewing you. If you get approved by all three, you may buy the license. The only person who has ever been turned down is someone who could not speak English over the phone and 98% get into the system.

[Scambone]

You will lose your rear end within 6 months unless you have 6-12 months of personal expenses saved up before you ever venture in the HCA direction. Most people I know can't function without missing one paycheck under normal working circumstances. So, if you won the lottery or just have piles of cash in your bank account right now - you might do well over the long haul with HCA. If you don't, then you are setting yourself up for failure from the get-go.

I can't stress enough how ABC company is not going to source you in to try to find them standard RN positions or easy positions that they can fill on their own. They are only going to utilize your services to help find that needle in the haystack employee that they can't find themselves after much searching. These are positions like Nurse Case Manager's that require extensive experience as a nurse or nurse manager as well as extensive experience as a social worker. Many of these type positions require a masters degree in nursing and a masters degree in social work. For example. These people are not a dime a dozen and are very difficult to find.

The kicker - once you find a candidate (assuming you do) you are at the mercy of the company as to when they want to conduct an interview. Consider that the hiring client may drag their feet and not do anything for two weeks because they are so busy running the business. Then they may go on vacation for a week. Or they may be traveling and not able to conduct an interview. There's three weeks right there that you have already lost. Not to mention all the time that you spent trying to find someone that met their qualifications. That could easily be another 6-8 weeks. So, now you have 11-12 weeks invested in this one person.

And the client may not like them or may not make them an offer. Or, your candidate may get tired of waiting and take a job elsewhere in the meantime. In the event they are hired, most companies have a minimum of 1 month in the role before they will pay you a finder's fee. Many are 90 days. So, it is feasible for you to invest 4-6 months of your time before you even see a red cent. And, remember, this is just a single candidate.

I'd like to see the failure rate for HCA ownership and agents. It has to be off the charts. Many owners start out with a staff of 3 or so recruiting agents. And they can't even keep enough "business" in the pipeline to support those 3 agents. So, then they add 3 new agents to their business model as the agents buy into HCA. Then you have 6 people not making any money instead of 3. Bad business model.

Is HCA a scam? No. Are you going to be able to make 100K doing this? Not likely. Maybe in 3-5 years. Probably not even then though. I had a friend that did this and made about 10K in 6 months. So that's 20K per year. That's $9.62 per hour considering a 40 hour workweek. But my friend worked 60 hours or so a week. If you have any job skill at all (even without a college degree) you can go out and earn $10.00 per hour/40 hours a week. HCA is a bad investment, IMO. I would advise against doing it at all costs. It is true that the market is very over-saturated and the jobs you are expected to find will prove to be VERY hard.

[Scambone]

Scamhada:

I'll tell you point blank - don't do it. I actually know a lot more about HCA, but I have been somewhat vague in order to not reveal my identity.

If you have a paid for home, no debt, and only your utilities to pay for monthly - HCA would be a great home-based business to attempt to grow. If you are not in that situation, then run away fast because you will be in dire straits in no time flat. The company loosely estimates that it may be 6 months before you make your first placement. And that is being kind. Ask yourself if you can go 6 months with ZERO income?

If you are currently working a full-time job and dream of working from home, then this is a bad opportunity all the way around. Steer clear of it at all costs. The chance that you will earn what amounts to minimum wage, all things considered, your first year are MUCH greater than the chance that you'll earn 50K+. When you throw in the fact that you will be at your computer doing HCA-related work 60-70 hours per week, you would likely annualize earning less than minimum wage with few or limited placements.

The reality is that HCA turns very few people down. I know multpile recruiters within HCA currently that don't have a college degree (associates or bachelors). In order for them to deny you entry, you have to be an abolute tool with minimal job skills. If you are educated beyond high school and still consider this route, keep in mind that these will be some of your co-workers. Most also have ZERO recruiting experience when they "buy" in. Ask yourself if you want to be on a team of uneducated/unexperienced people who have the same opportunities as yourself?

Although there is "no investment required," you do have to purchase software for their candidate datebase. This is currently around $50 per month. And once you leave the company, it is like pulling teeth to get them to stop billing you, even though you are no longer using their service. You are essentially a 1099 employee. You won't be visiting many employers onsite. So you can forget writing off travel/mileage expenses. You theoritically could get assigned to an owner in Missouri who has you working on jobs in Oregon. And you could be based in Mississippi. It's not like you are going to be breaking into a local market and racking up.

The only way that you are going to succeed with HCA is if you are getting sourced two NEW jobs to fill EVERY week. I can tell you from experience that this is NOT going to be the case. As I have mentioned in earlier posts, the jobs that HCA gets are NOT easy jobs to fill. They are not standard RN or LPN positions. They are very specific and specialized positions that are VERY difficult to find candidates for. HCA will tell you that there are umpteen jobs open annually in the healthcare profession. And there are. Only problem is that HCA sees a fraction of them. You could potentially tie up weeks or months of time on one posting/one candidate. More often than not, most candidates are not going to wait that long and almost 100% of the time they are applying/interviewing at multiple locations. They will take the first good thing that comes along and my experience has been that HCA jobs usually lag behind some other traditional direct-hire positions. This means you are left standing at the altar.

I also can't stress enough how critical it is to be with an owner who is aggressive and strives to keep you gainfully employed. If you were to get with such an owner who never misses a beat and strives to earn 1MM plus a year or some absurb number, then you will be fine over the long haul. But if your owner strives to make 75-100K, then you are screwed. The owners make a pretty nice commission. Still, they are essentially 1099 employees as well. And they have some financial obligation to the franchise. In my case, we had 3 recruiters. We had one major client who was basically inactive for long periods of time. That meant that none of the 3 of us were making any commissions. But then our owner went out and assumed 2 more (initially) recruiters from HCA who had "bought in" to the company. Then he later added in a 3rd recruiter. So, instead of having 3 people who were basically idle, we now had 6. And it's not like our owner was beating down doors all across America to drum up more business. He was basically doing nothing to further the cause. I'm sure he viewed the business as a way to make 6 figures for himself and a way to work from home. And that's great. But he also needed to consider that he had 6 employees who shared the same goals. In order to mind the store, he would have needed to be booking well into the millions per year (billed) in order for all 6 recruiters (and himself) to be successful financially. He wasn't. Far from it. And in the end, everyone suffered. 3 got out completely within 1 year. 3 are still dumb enough (or financially secure enough) to keep hanging on.

[reedp]

what do you consider greatly reduced? do you have the software as well?

[friendofanHCAowner]

ok, my friend became an HCA owner over 2 years ago, and when I read posts like the following that show people are being swayed by HCA's radio shows, I felt compelled to register on this site in order to reply.

"BTW: if you listen to some of those radio show recordings with the company's "owners" you can learn a lot about the industry and how this company operates."

"Actually, I have heard consultants at the company's archived radio shows at their website talking about making substantial revenue (and giving specifics) inside of 30 days."

"I just recently listened to their radio broadcast of interviews with a few sales consultants and one owner operator, I was kindda impressed..."

For my own peace of mind, I need to warn everyone who is considering buying into this to TAKE WHATEVER YOU HEAR ON THE COMPANY'S RADIO SHOW WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. This is a marketing tool, and yes, what you hear makes HCA ownership seem very attractive, but the reality could be another story entirely. I'm avoiding posting specifics on here to protect my own identity and the identity of my friend, but make no mistake -- some of what you hear on their radio show are outright lies. For example, most people define "on the books" to mean "sold and contract signed." HCA defines it as "in the pipeline" with the potential for a future contract. Why would an owner participate in such a show, you ask? Well, "hypothetically" it could be that they agreed to do it with the best of intentions, but during taping they're blindsided by the host who is prompting them to make things sound better than they actually are. Or, again "hypothetically" pride could play a role... Imagine the mindframe of someone who has invested heavily to become an owner, expecting to make a lot of money in a short time because of marketing tools like the radio show. That owner doesn't make a lot of - or any - money within the first 2 years, their bills start racking up, and they're embarrassed to admit any of it to family and friends. Then they're offered money to be a guest on the radio show. Not only are they paid to do it, but they then have something positive (albeit untruthful) to show family and friends.

Even those with employment recruiting experience could have a tough time. I'm taking years of successful experience. My friend, for example, could sell a popsicle to a woman in white gloves. Think about it... if you're a computer programmer looking for a job, you may not know all the possible companies who might be interested in hiring you so you may need a recruiter to find the best opportunities. But a doctor or a nurse can pretty much pick up the phone book to find the hospitals, physician practices, labs, insurance companies, etc that will accept their resumes. I'm not saying there's no chance for a recruiter in the health care industry. There may be some very successful owners out there. All I can go on is my friend's less than ideal experience with HCA and my own knowledge of how business works. So if you decide to go ahead and make the investment, please make sure that you have enough savings to carry you for a minimum of 3 years, preferably more. Also, please think long and hard about whether you want to do business with a company that uses questionable marketing tactics.

[friendofanHCAowner]

One thing I forgot to mention about why owners would participate in HCA radio shows that bend the truth... because they see those shows as having the potential to help their own businesses. Healthcare HR departments that outsource recruiting and job candidates all want to work with only the best recruiters. How do you demonstrate that you're up to the challenge when you have no clients to give testamonials or references? You show them a link to a radio show that features you talking about your company's success, in hopes that it will sway the prospects and help you land some deals. Having a way to build that kind of confidence with your prospects is huge, especially when you're desperate for cash. So the owners have to justify in their own minds what they can easily dismiss as 'little white lies' for the greater good. I'm not condoning it, but don't judge until you've walked a mile in an owner's shoes. Ask yourself what you would do if you had no savings, no income, and your family was counting on you to succeed, make the mortgage payments -- and don't forget the payments for the business loan that helped get you into this mess in the first place.

[thinkfast]

Let me again be clear. The HCA system does have a lot of advantage. Can you do it alone? yes, but you can also build an airplane on your own, but I would not suggest it.

Here are three major advantages I can see:
1.) the network: being part of a network means that your business can thrive during the normal down times. As an independent recruiter, you can make a tons of money, but not all the time. The way to bridge that is to have a network.
2.) The training: it is not only an advantage to be able to pick up the phone and call someone about the many questions, it can also be seen as a necessity.
3.) as an owner/operator, HCA will train slot consultants (up to 10) and slot researchers (up to 1) for your business, so you could have 11 people working for you.
HCA is not selling owner/operator licenses, so all you can do is buy it from an existing owner/operator. (like me)

[reedp]

have you sold your license yet

[reedp]

[quote=thinkfast;730194]Let me again be clear. The HCA system does have a lot of advantage. Can you do it alone? yes, but you can also build an airplane on your own, but I would not suggest it.

Here are three major advantages I can see:
1.) the network: being part of a network means that your business can thrive during the normal down times. As an independent recruiter, you can make a tons of money, but not all the time. The way to bridge that is to have a network.
2.) The training: it is not only an advantage to be able to pick up the phone and call someone about the many questions, it can also be seen as a necessity.
3.) as an owner/operator, HCA will train slot consultants (up to 10) and slot researchers (up to 1) for your business, so you could have 11 people working for you.
HCA is not selling owner/operator licenses, so all you can do is buy it from an existing owner/operator. (like me)[have you sold your license yet? If not, I'm interested.]

[thinkfast]

No, I have not, feel free to contact me.

timminer@yahoo.com

[JoeFinHouston]

I have been in the technical recruiting business since 1985 and I can tell you that anyone who has a sales program to sell their recruting business opportunity that is based on "there is a high demand for healthcare etc," is not telling you the real facts.
The primary fact you need to consider is that any specialized recruiting business is good when there is a balance between "supply and demand", i.e. there is a good balance between Candidates and Client needs. The fact that there is a dwindling supply of Healthcare Workers/Professionals should tell you that you are going to have a problem with the business opportunity. Don't waste your time or money on this deal.
JoeFinHouston

[mailcan]

You may want to read this:

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dai...fore_trial.php

[Knowing]

Thanks mailcan, the post about Merchant-Calsyn or whatever his name is was very interesting. It confirmed for me that I made the right decision on quitting this company.
I paid out money to become incorporated along with the monthly fees to use the database for over six months. I never made a dime. I submitted plenty of qualified candidates that fit the open jobs, but none were ever placed...that I know of. I could never reach the owner of the company and never knew what was going on---all the while spending hours on the phone recruiting new candidates. The owner of the company I was working with was sometimes reachable at first, then started avoiding me. He never answered the phone and stopped anwering emails. I'm just glad I finally woke up and decided to stop wasting my time.

[selah7]

Hi:
Thanks to all of you for your posts. I was just looking into this opportunity and was unsure. This company also offers other opportunities besides the Owner/Opportunity - like the Recruiting Consultant. Has anybody heard about this position? I heard that there were two options to choose from to start. The "no cost" and the Preferred Recruiting Consultant at about $5000.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

Anyone know about other opportunities for working from home?

[Duck98]

selah7 - let me ask you - what is your level of expertise in Health Care Recruitment?

Or any of the people on this list who were "looking into this opportunity"?

How many of you have experience recruiting for any professional positions? How many of you have worked in the Health Care Industry?

How many of you know how hospitals go about recruiting staff?

Seriously - you expect to make money in this field? How? It is not the number of vacancies that is important, it is how many really qualified candidates you can find and recruit. And really qualified candidates do not normally need help getting jobs.

What I am trying to understand here is what do YOU (the person considering this awful "opportunity") bring to the deal?

[Heretohelp100]

BEWARE Health Career Agents and Career Agents!
Hi ALL!
I just signed up here after reading all these posts. I am a Owner in the HCA network and looking into suing for breach of contract. They are about to close down shop (sort of) and re-open under another name "Career Agents" they say that "Career Agents" will take over their contractually obligated services but it is formed under another person, not Brian M, and they won't send me any paper work to prove this!

Many of the services I signed up for have not been given, and they think that having recorded training available online will cover what I paid $50k for! Brian is trying to weasle out of everything by doing this - 50k for a bunch of recordings!!!! But he is sneaky, our initial investment got financed through a company Brian set us up with "Corporate Finance of America" - this way if he defrauds we'll still owe money. But guess who owns CFoA? Yup Brian M!!! Sneaky sneaky.

For my 50k I got a lame website, horrible business cards, weak training and little more. I was told, and signed paperwork, saying they would help me get Consultants to help work with me - which they've not done! When asked I was told they didn't have to do certain things, it's are up to their discretion!

I don't know about Career Agents but I wouldn't trust it!! Same Dog different Fleas!!!

On a better note:
If you are interested in Healthcare Recruiting it is a great field, I make great money and am happy that I do it. It takes time and commitment and a lot of calling. Good Luck!

[realitychck]

a health recruiting agency that finds potential canidates through home based recruitors who spend hours on the phone trying to find leads for HCA. There are plenty of local placement agencies that fill temporary vacancies Often the employer pays higher than the going rater to secure temps until they find a full time replacement. And, The health field has no trouble finding replacements. There are plenty of grads, and health care workers already in the work force seeking new positions. There is not a shortage of nurses nurses just don't stay.

[Heretohelp100]

Hello Again!

I just wanted to jump back in after all the new information I have received.

In the past couple months I have spoken with so many people who are disgusted with HCA and the deception of it all.

I couldn't even possibly know where to start. Brain Marchant-Calsyn is the lowest form of human I have ever met (note how many times he's been sued). Health Career Agents is now completely defunct and Career Agents Network has sprouted in its place. I believe to dupe more people into spending money for false promises.

I am too tired now to write about each lie I was told. I just wanted to warn everyone one more time. Brian Marchant-Calsyn will be back trying to gain your trust and your pocketbook - do NOT let him. Do not spend money buying into Career Agents Network - it is not worth it!

I wish someone had written like this when I was getting duped.

[shf1121]

Career Agents Network (formally Health Career Agents. Don't be fooled, they are the exact same company) is a complete money sink.

The vast majority of members do not make ANY profit, or even break even with the insane amount of money they invest. The training is extremely sub-par, the company is very understaffed and doing terrible financially. They are laying off employees left and right.

The 'elite' members that you speak to during your evaluation period are the very few who hit a big deal and actually made some money. They are PAID by HCA\CAN to speak with the members and say good things about the company.

All in all, would you invest in and trust a company that is falling? CAN is going downhill more and more each day as many realize the scams involved, and the constant emails received showing their desperation. Just a month or so ago the buy-in price was $29k. I believe it then dropped to $19k with NO refund of $10k offered the the ones who just signed in at 29k. The price keeps dropping as they get more in debt and more desperate.

The amount of deliverable returns you receive don't even total $500. You are practically paying for a lackluster website with sub-par training material which has not been updated in a long time and includes things that don't exist in the company anymore.

Save yourself months of time, headaches, and money problems by not buying into or supporting this company. As for 'consultants' looking into the free aspect - good luck. Consultants are even less likely to ever pay off what they'll owe the company for the weak training, lack of responsive employees, and downhill spiral of debt, layoffs, and shortcomings.

[shf1121]

Hoping this stays up on the front page.... don't want anyone else getting scammed by this company.

[shf1121]

It appears the company has laid off a few more employees... Don't know which ones, but if they're laying off even more they are not in a good financial state!!

Do not send your money to this scam of a company!

[Bozz]

Back in late 2006, early 2007 I spent an awful lot of time researching HCA. I even attended seminars they held a couple hours from my house in consideration of starting with them.

During that time, I spoke to HCA owners, Brian Marchant-Calsyn himself and multiple people they had in the position to sign people up.

In the end, I decided NOT to do this venture... something just didn't seem to add up, they became "pushy" and tried the old used-car sales tricks to get me to sign on. I was at contract phase, had been approved by them, and decided not to.

After reading the posts here, as well as the blog that was posted... and then researching for myself, I found that Career Agents Network has started where HCA left off. I'd bet that Brian M. is heavily involved at CAN as well. Nothing has changed, except the name. Well, some things have changed... much of the management. Charlotte Byndas was there, but I don't recognize any of the same people as before.

My thought is, STAY AWAY. If it looks like a rat, and smells like a rat... its probably a rat.

[ithacagurl]

This is all so accurate. My friends became owners like 2 years ago and I did the agent training to be able to assist them. Oh boy I worked the phones from the list of pharmacists they gave me but the competition is so stiff. I moved on after about 2 months. I need to call to see how they r doing.

Originally Posted by Scambone

I had a friend that used to be a recruiter for this company (i.e. work from home). While the company itself it NOT a scam, I would advise against doing this for multiple reasons.

The company (HCA) sells a franchise opportunity to a business owner who pays 50K and up for the opportunity to become an owner. The owner then "hires" recruiters from within HCA to work under his "tree" or business segment. This could be recruiters who are already in the network at the time the owner bought in, or new recruiters getting into the company and being assigned to an owner.

Here are some things to consider:

• HCA does not generate business or new business for the business owner. If the business owner is not aggressive or committed to constantly gaining new business and fostering relationships and getting in deeper with current clients, then the business is going to fail. My friend was in a situation where the business owner was only working actively with less than 5 accounts, in an attempt to support 5-6 recruiters. That won't work.

• HCA advertises for new recruiters EVERY day or nearly every day on monster.com and other job boards. I don't think there is much of a culling process to keep from flooding the "market" with new recruiters. I think the new recruiter is out $100 or some small amount. And they have to incorporate. So, although there is some initial investment - it is very minimal. This means that pretty much anyone who aspires to work from home and has minimal job skills can get in as a recruiter, thus flooding the market. My friend was in a situation where the peer organization was not generating any new business or jobs. Yet, the business owner was taking on 2-3 additional recruiters into the organization at that time who had signed on with HCA. This would be akin to a store who is not making any money going out and hiring additional employees. Something that any logical person would say you would not do.

• Pay cycles. Depending on the contract, the "hiring" company has up to 90 days to pay the business owner in some cases once the employee you found for them actually starts on the job. Once the business owner gets paid, he gets his portion and sends a check to HCA. HCA then takes their portion and sends a check to the recruiter. So the recruiter is the last one to get paid. This is great if you can afford to go 90 days between pay checks or if you are doing enough placements to be getting regular checks (which would take years to establish). Since most people can't afford to go more than 2 weeks without some sort of income, this is not a good plan to be on. Also, keep in mind that most employees (if leaving another job) give a 2 week notice. So this delays your getting paid by 2 more weeks. If they want any vacation or down time in between jobs, then you could potentially be waiting 4 months to be paid for an employee you placed.

• You are at the mercy of your client. My friend had many instances where they submitted candidates to client companies for jobs, only to have the client company sit on the job for weeks at a time. What I mean by that is that a candidate was submitted and the company showed no sense of urgency in setting up an interview or making a hiring decision. Sometimes it was that whoever was doing the interviewing or hiring was out on vacation, etc. Most of the time though it was just that the hiring authority was too "busy" or just plain lazy about making a decision. By the time that they finally got around to wanting to schedule an interview - the candidate had already accepted a job with another company. So all of the legwork you put into cold calling and finding a good fit - is out the window! Sometimes you could have hours invested into one person and if they don't get hired, then you don't get paid.

• Most of the easy healthcare jobs are filled through X company's HR department. Unless they are extremely lazy or just don't want to fool with it - a company is not going to pay a recruiting firm to find a candidate that they could easily find themselves. Therefore, you won't just be calling an RN that might be looking to change jobs and have them working the next week. The HCA jobs by and large are for specialized roles (sometimes VERY specialized) that the company has likely already been looking to fill and hasn't been able to turn anyone up. Someone with a dual degree in nursing and psychology with 10 year's experience is not easily found. And those type people are usually happily employed. Many of these type people are DIFFICULT to find and it takes hours, weeks, and sometimes months to locate a candidate that is just willing to submit their resume. Something to consider.

[scamerica]

Why do they send spam mail?

[baaboo]

I really would like some insight from anyone who has any experience with this company as an owner or the sister company SRN. Has anyone actually evaluated this as a business investment? What conclusions have you come to? The one thing that I wish they would be more forthright about in their literature is average earnings and time involvement. For example, how long did it take the average Owner/Operator to achieve their first sale? What is the average income for a O/O, how long has the average business been operating?

[stewart patrick]

Originally Posted by shf1121

It appears the company has laid off a few more employees... Don't know which ones, but if they're laying off even more they are not in a good financial state!!

Do not send your money to this scam of a company!

Disclaimer: The following is provided as a public service using readily available public records. No private or confidential information is contained in this post. No illegal or criminal activity is encouraged, supported, condoned, or advised as the result of it's use. On the contrary, the author explicitly rejects the use of violence, threats, intimidation, or harassment as a means to achieve redress of grievances.

For those of you owner/agents and independent agents wishing to have your lawyers initiate litigation against Brian Marchant-Calsyn; you can serve him the appropriate court papers at:

Brian Marchant-Calsyn / Christine Calsyn
1761 Topping Road
St. Louis, MO 63131

(information taken from publicly available records located at http://revenue.stlouisco.com/ias/ listing the property tax information on their 2 million dollar home)

For those of you wishing to initiate litigation against Career Agents Network, Paul Helm (it's President), or Charlotte Byndas (it's Chief Operating Officer) you should use the following addresses for service of the complaints and court papers:

Career Agents Network - Counsel
Michael Khoury
Jaffe, Raitt, Heuer & Weiss, P. C.
27777 Franklin Road
Suite 2500 Southfield, MI 48034-8214
248-351-3000

(taken from the publicly available information provided on the careeragentsnetwork.com website)

Paul Helm, President, Career Agents Network
5780 Recreation Drive
West Bloomfield, MI 48324

(taken from publicly available and published records located at http://www.dleg.state.mi.us)

Charlotte Byndas, Chief Operating Officer
586 River Oaks Drive
Milford, MI 48381

(taken from publicly available and published records located at http://www.dleg.state.mi.us)

Additionally, Career Agents Network can be served court papers at:

Career Agents Network, Inc.
28345 Beck Road Suite 300
Wixom, MI 48393

(taken from publicly available records located at http://www.dleg.state.mi.us)

I just learned that these scoundrels are now enticing our military veterans out of money by perpetrating a "Scholarship" CONTEST program. Don't CONTESTS have to be regulated by the State's or some kind of gaming commssion wen you're in the pot for 10 or 20 grand and required to pay money in order to enter? I thought a scholarship was something that was actually subsidized rather than a discount off a purchase price. Am I getting a scholarship when I go to Wendy's and use a coupon? Anyway, they are taking money from veterans and people that have served this country to preserve it's liberties and selling them on the fact they might make a living in the business. For a very very few it may be. For the vast majority, it won't. Perhaps that is what they mean by scholarship as our fighting men and women will certainly be "schooled" in the ways of being relieved of their hard-earned money.

Another possibility you may wish to explore is to sue these people in your local jurisdictions small claims court. Here in Colorado, the limit is $7,000 and 7 grand times 4 defendants is $28,000. Getting judgments like that back from their swindle of $49,900 is better than nothing.

Filing a complaint with your State's Attorney General is a good idea as well. Start in your state and send the same letter to both Missouri and Michigan.

The full list of AG's can be found here:

http://www.naag.org/ag/full_ag_table.php

If anyone is in process for a class action or has any other mutually beneficial litigation, count me in! I might throw some money into the pot to help things along! Send your attorney's information to me at stewartpatrick@hushmail.com

[Tnfbref]

I can only speak from my personal experience with this company and it has been extremely positive.

I have been an owner/operator with Health Career Professionals and their successor company Career Agents Network for almost four years. All I can say is:

1) They delivered on everything promised.
2) They are as legitimate as any business can be.
3) I have made a very successful living using their services, training, and guidance.

I started with them having no previous recruiting or business ownership experience. Four years later I own a growing, professional business and employ three other people. I followed their process exactly as described, took advantage of all the training, and worked like a dog for many months to get my business profitable. It worked and I think it is the best professional decision I've ever made.

From what I understand this might be the exception, just as it is for Subway or any other business opportunity. In other words, you get out of it what you put into it.

Career Agents Network is not for you if you are looking for get rich quick schemes, guarantees of success, or shortcuts. I have found if you are willing to work hard, follow the process, and stick with the program you will be successful.

[TexasTed]

Richard,
As a shill for Health Career Agents and Career Agents Network its an insult that you say "you speak for yourself" , particularly when you get paid for hoppin to their tune reviewing and rubber stamping wannabe owners. Thanks for mistakeningly putting Health Career Professionals in your post. Googled you and found your home page to see your still workin it, so thanks for letting us know who's writing the "don't let the truth get in your way of buying into this lie" BS. How much do you get paid for being on the "Evaluation Board"? Did someone at HQ suggest you write some BS for here?

In any franchise deal like this, and you say SUBWAY, yea there are risks and chances of failure. If 90% or more of Subways went out of business in the first year or open their doors and never sell a sandwich, would you still babble that it was the individuals that were the cause of failure? Of course not. That would be stupid. Uncle Sam'd be puttin the shutters on that business Katrina real quick too cuz they don't hide behind loophole law.

I bought in after you, but remeber some story about someone from HCA jettin' in to hold your hand and score the contract. That isn't their agent way of doing things is it? That's the opposite way, but you need suckers to find the people to fill those slots and if you get 50 people bustin' their butts to find you those people and 48 go out of business cuz they only find you 1 or 2 who cares, right? You got your 100 fills and they got a few bones and little meat, but wind up still in debt.

My take on your list of BS things below:

1. I didn't know they promised to deliver bad software, bad hardware, and bad support from other owners so "wet behind the ears" themself that it was blind leading the blind.

2. Legit businesses don't hide the fact of being run by a convicted drug dealer . Make a mistake... no big deal, hide the fact by adding a woman's last name to yours after you get sprung from prison? Sound akin to trying to hide under a skirt and not owning up. Would you look the other way if he had been convicted of moving the LSD at your local schools or the football players you ref in Tennessee?

3. I'm happy you've done good, but it is proabably becuz of that big contract you scored near the beginning of your time with these people and had little to nuthin' to do with their bad training and crappy sofwares.

You are like all the other people that make a buck off the people that fail becuz of the crappy training and directions this company provides. You sing the same tune that these scammers sing but since your in Nashville you know what a broken record soundslike. Quit stickin' up for this, look in the mirror and tell the truth to your brothers. MOST PEOPLE FAIL and 30-50 grand is alot to spend on a piece of crap you could do yourself and probly better.

You make like you were a noobie with your post here but Ur stuff at http://healthcareerprofessionals.com really makes you sound like you were pretty far ahead of us southern yokels ... just more BS from a paid spokesperson.

[rokurz]

Health Career Agents is an organization that launched health care recruiting firms (independently-owned businesses not franchises). It was recently acquired by two former partners and is now operating under the name Career Agents Network.

I became an owner in 2006 under their auspices. I started the business with my two adult sons who left other successful careers to join me. So, we had three families to support from the get go. Brian Marchant- Calsyn (the original owner) and Charlotte Byndas (one of the current owners) were tireless in their support and mentoring. The success of our business is owed in large measure to their expertise, particularly the training and counsel provided by Charlotte.

We did support all three families the first year and launched a successful recruiting firm. It may be helpful to know that I had no prior experience in recruiting.

However, the business opportunity offered is a real entrepreneurial endeavor - not a get rich quick scheme. Over the past three years I have had dozens of conversations with struggling owners in the CAN network and can say with confidence that the reason many have failed is because they were not willing to do what is necessary to be successful and not because they did not receive adequate support from CAN.

Like any other entrepreneurial endeavor, there is a risk and many are not successful. Always, given a successful business model, the real hurdle and obstacle is ourselves and not the business.I highly recommend CAN to potential new owners or individuals considering a recruiting career.

[kekkylovesfont]

I completely agree with the post by Tnfbref's point that HCA/CAN is set up for people who want to work. They aren't interested in a get rich quick scam. I work for a firm involved with HCA/CAN but am not a recruiter. Nor am I an owner. I do office work, support a staff, etc.

I have been with the firm for 2 years and have known the owner for many years. My boss is hardworking and would not be successful if he did not have the support and training from HCA/CAN and have the will***** to actually work. I work with many of the affiliates in the network and notice a lot of poor work, lazy work ethics, and people who don't want to listen to the advice of veteran and successful recruiters. These same lazy affiliates are unsuccessful recruiters and owners who blame HCA/CAN for their lack of financial stability and success.

Yes, HCA/CAN says that it can be a work at home situation. But that doesn't mean that you can work four hours a day and chase children around the house and have dogs barking in the background while you're trying to have a professional conversation with a client who is going to pay you thousands of dollars to find a great candidate.

HCA/CAN is not a scam; it doesn't even belong on scam.com. The network creates a successful business opportunity for someone who wants to make it work and is willing to put forth effort to have a successful recruiting career.

[shf1121]

How much are they paying you guys to create an account and post here saying good things? $100, $200? Similar to what the evaluation board members receive every time they interview someone and say good things about the company?

Just a little update about CAN: http://www.mediapost.com/publication...art_aid=123644

and

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...tting-case.ars

Ouch, spent likely tens of thousands on legal fees and won't see a dime! Way to go Lawrence!

[shf1121]

By the way, for anyone still skeptical on this company, see the below website:

http://www.careeragentsnetworksucks.com/index.html

[rokurz]

It is interesting that the indiividual who is so adamant about "not making a dime" with Career Agents Network and who promotes his "gripe" sites just made yet another placement of a healthcare professional for a sizable five figure fee. This income would not have been received were it not for the Network he decries. Ask him yourself.

Time to come clean!

[kekkylovesfont]

I would be interested to know how you find the time to create all these scam threads and sites and still have time to be a recruiter.

Can you imagine how much money you would make if you would put as much effort into recruiting as you put into posting slander about someone who has given you an awesome opportunity?

[GIJoseph]

Man, am I ever glad I found this scam.com before buying into this Health Career Agents Network deal! Really sounds like there are many people that try to pump this thing up even though its a scam. Are this Kekky and Rok the same person? They post right after one another and smell fishy (and just too much slam on the people trying to speak right about this deal). Do they work for this scam?
Thanks to those that posted the dark and real side of this BS organization, you saved me the money I saved up for getting into a business when I came home. This should be criminal what these people are doing?
They want me to write a essay on getting into business for a scholarship? I knew it was crap right then! And then I went to Bing and google and yahoo and found much more. Just do a search.
Semper Fi to those that helped me.

[GIJoseph]

Can anyone tell me what the real deal work-at-home but not a scam franshises are?