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  #1  
Old 11-12-2006, 05:55 AM
Emerantia Emerantia is offline
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Jehovah's Witnesses and their use of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION continued.....

I won't make any commentary yet on the word 'false' in reply to my first 'thread' on the same topic, nor will I come to the defense of the personage who presented himself to Bogie as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. But I will say Bogie, that I am deeply sorry for your unfortunate experience. But I may be able to shed some light on why this happened to you. But for now I will continue with the topic in hand and hope that all the information I am able to supply will be noticed by those with a good instinct and a 'discerning eye!' I am not here to debate nor defend, merely to try and present information based on facts.

As far as code of dress is concerned when attending a meeting at a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses - in any society where protocol and code of dress is still meaningful - it shows a certain amount of respect if members of any organization present themselves in the appropriate attire suited to the occasion? Suits are always welcome, but if one can only afford a pair of jeans, than maybe a shirt and tie would be nice, or even a jacket to present a more formal appearance. But be sure that no one at any Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses will judge any person there in attendance on their attire. More likely they will welcome the visitor with warmth and open arms. But basically it is NOT about one's dresscode or attire, but about one's heart condition and how each person is perceived by God Himself and what his heart condition is, is what counts.

Being a Non Profit organization as far as the actual literature that is presented to people when they are being witnessesed to - those that can afford a tiny contribution (and humble coins are fine) towards the literature may do so to support printing costs, but on the whole many of those that cannot afford to pay are most welcome to it free of charge if they really want it. That counts for magazines as well as study aid books. Whether they be flash presentations or simple plain printed productions. It is the information that they carry is what is important. Mostly witnesses work in groups of 2 at all times when engaged in the witnessing work. It has also been known that some have presented themselves as witnesses for their own purposes and ends. They do not however, belong nor are they recognized as accepted members of this Church. There are various reasons why this may happen from time to time. But I will touch on this in a separate topic further on in time.

WHO WERE THE TRANSLATORS?
This paragraph has been dealt with already and can be traced back to my first thread on the topic.

IS IT REALLY A SCHOLARLY TRANSLATION?
Since the translators have chosen to remain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of their educational background. the translation must be appraised on its own merits.

What kind of translation is this?
For one thing, it is an accurate, largely literal translation from the original languages. It is not a loose paraphrase, in which the translators leave out details that they consider unimportant and add ideas that they believe will be helpful. As an aid to students a number of editions provide extensive footnotes showing variant readings where expressions can legitimately be rendered in more than one way, also a listing of the specific ancient manuscripts on which certain renderings are based.

Some verses may not read the same as what a person is accustomed to. which rendering is right? Readers are invited to examine manuscript support cited in footnotes of the Reference edition of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION, read explanations given in the appendix, and compare the rendering with a variety of other translations. They will generally find that some other translators have also seen the need to express the matter in a similar manner. Some American universities in fact in their theological study branches have taken to using the JW's NEW WORLD TRANSLATION of the Holy Bibly as one of their more favourite study aids.

WHY IS THE NAME 'JEHOVAH' USED IN THE CHRISTIAN GREEK SCRIPTURES?
It should be noted that the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION is not the only Bible that does this. The divine name appears in translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew, in passages where quotations are made directly from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. The Emphatic Diaglott (1864) contains the name Jehovah (or Yahweh) 18 times. Versions of the christian Greek Scriptures in at least 38 other languages also use a vernacular form of the divine name.

The emphasis that Jesus christ put on the name of his Father indicates that he personally used it freely. (Matthew 6:9; John 17:6, 26) According to Jerome of the fourth century C.E., the apostle Matthew wrote his gospel first in Hebrews, and that Gospel makes numerous quotations of the passages from the Hebrew Scriptures that contain the divine name. Others of the Christian Greek Scripture writers quoted from the Greek Septuagint (a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, begun about 280 B.C.E.), early copies of which contained the divine name in Hebrew character, as shown by actual fragments that have been preserved.

Professor George howard of the university of Georgia wrote: "Since the Tetragram (four Hebrew letters for the divine name) was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N(ew) T(estament) writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text." (See - Journal of Biblical Literature March 1977, page 77.)

WHY ARE SOME VERSES APPARENTLY MISSING?
Those verses, found in some translations, are NOT in the oldest available Bible manuscripts. Comparison with other modern translations, such as The New English Bible and the Catholic Jerusalem Bible, shows that other translators have also recognized that the verses in questions do not belong in the Bible. In some instances, they were taken from another part of the Bible and added to the text being copied by a scribe. (More details on quoted Scripture as well as explanations on this topic another day).

Thus The NEW WORLD TRANSLATION of the Bible is presented with modern, understandable language, and was translated by the original translators closely to what is in the original Bible languages. Interesting to note that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. So we appreciate what translators have done to put it into our language. As persons belonging to that group of people (no matter what religions we all may belong to) that have a hunger for knowledge and are searching for 'Truths', I am sure you would be interested to know what one of the big differences is between the name of the most important person spoken of in the scriptures. That the personal name of God (Jehovah or Yahweh or Tetragrammaton as discussed before) appears in the Bible in the original Hebrew some 7,000 times - more than any other name?' And yes it does make a difference that we use the personal name of God as this encourages a close and personal relationship with our Creator. (See what Jesus said at John 17:3,6; Psalms 83:18) There are many Bible translations other than the one used by Jehovah's Witnesses, that will highlight this name in its full glory, especially older Catholic Bible editions printed around early 1900.

THE DIVINE NAME THAT WILL ENDURE FOREVER

For those interested I will be happy to present this topic in full with scriptural backup another day.

ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES A CULT OR A SECT?
I will furnish information on this topic also another day. But just as a point of interest I'd like to highlight this scripture referring to Paul (one of Jesus prominent Apostles) himself by the authorities of his day.
Acts 24:5, 6 - For we have found this man (Paul who had once been know as a persecutor of christians before he became a believer) a pestilent fellow and stirring up seditions among all the Jews throughout the inhabited earth and a spearhead of the SECT of the Nazarenes. (6) one who also tried to profane the temple and whom we seized. (7) blank (8) from him you yourself can by examination find out about all these things of which we are accusing him.

Here it is showing that even Paul, a convert and devout follower now of Jesus Christ was himself referred as the leader of a sect (or cult). Clearly showing how easy it is to label someone who follows the values of differing principles and ideas within the conventional beliefs of those times in that Jewish society. Also it was mentioned how Jesus tossed out the traders who were defiling his Father's Holy temple. Jesus was visibly agitated and quite fiery as he came to his Father's defense.

As for the missing scripture in (verse 7) - This verse was somewhat superfluous and is not found in the original Greek Diaglott of the Holy Scriptures in the same context. However it can be noted in some other Bible translations where it says: but the chief captain Lysi-as came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands. Already this incident had been mentioned at Acts 223:26,26

However it is mentioned here at Acts 23:26,27 of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION of JW's as it was written down in a brief by chief Captain Claudius Lys'i-as to the Governor Felix as follows: (verse 26) Claudius Lys'i-as to his excellency, Governor Felix: Greetings! (verse 27)This man was seized by the Jews and was about to be done away with by them, but i came suddenly with a force of soldiers and rescued him, because I learned he was a Roman.

But bear with me to those who are interested to learn more, and I will elaborate more on the 'missing scriputures' topic another day. It makes for fascinating reading discovery.

Thank you for reading...
__________________
"Hunger ye not after the unattainable, lest the hidden beauty and mysterious wonders of the 'real' life's simplicities that lay already within your grasp, should also elude you in your fruitless endeavors!'
Extract from Quotable Sentiments by Emerantia Parnall-Gilbert Copyright C2005 All Rights Reserved



Last edited by Emerantia : 11-12-2006 at 06:06 AM. Reason: grammatical error
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2006, 09:16 PM
bogie's Avatar
bogie bogie is offline
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and their use of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION continued.....

Whew. Got any pictures with that book? Ya lost me for good.



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  #3  
Old 11-13-2006, 06:42 AM
EveryKnee EveryKnee is offline
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and their use of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION continued.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerantia
As far as code of dress is concerned when attending a meeting at a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses - in any society where protocol and code of dress is still meaningful - it shows a certain amount of respect if members of any organization present themselves in the appropriate attire suited to the occasion? Suits are always welcome, but if one can only afford a pair of jeans, than maybe a shirt and tie would be nice, or even a jacket to present a more formal appearance. But be sure that no one at any Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses will judge any person there in attendance on their attire. More likely they will welcome the visitor with warmth and open arms. But basically it is NOT about one's dresscode or attire, but about one's heart condition and how each person is perceived by God Himself and what his heart condition is, is what counts.

Being a Non Profit organization as far as the actual literature that is presented to people when they are being witnessesed to - those that can afford a tiny contribution (and humble coins are fine) towards the literature may do so to support printing costs, but on the whole many of those that cannot afford to pay are most welcome to it free of charge if they really want it. That counts for magazines as well as study aid books. Whether they be flash presentations or simple plain printed productions. It is the information that they carry is what is important. Mostly witnesses work in groups of 2 at all times when engaged in the witnessing work. It has also been known that some have presented themselves as witnesses for their own purposes and ends. They do not however, belong nor are they recognized as accepted members of this Church. There are various reasons why this may happen from time to time. But I will touch on this in a separate topic further on in time.


IS IT REALLY A SCHOLARLY TRANSLATION?
Since the translators have chosen to remain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of their educational background. the translation must be appraised on its own merits.

What kind of translation is this?
For one thing, it is an accurate, largely literal translation from the original languages. It is not a loose paraphrase, in which the translators leave out details that they consider unimportant and add ideas that they believe will be helpful. As an aid to students a number of editions provide extensive footnotes showing variant readings where expressions can legitimately be rendered in more than one way, also a listing of the specific ancient manuscripts on which certain renderings are based.

Some verses may not read the same as what a person is accustomed to. which rendering is right? Readers are invited to examine manuscript support cited in footnotes of the Reference edition of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION, read explanations given in the appendix, and compare the rendering with a variety of other translations. They will generally find that some other translators have also seen the need to express the matter in a similar manner. Some American universities in fact in their theological study branches have taken to using the JW's NEW WORLD TRANSLATION of the Holy Bibly as one of their more favourite study aids.

WHY IS THE NAME 'JEHOVAH' USED IN THE CHRISTIAN GREEK SCRIPTURES?
It should be noted that the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION is not the only Bible that does this. The divine name appears in translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew, in passages where quotations are made directly from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. The Emphatic Diaglott (1864) contains the name Jehovah (or Yahweh) 18 times. Versions of the christian Greek Scriptures in at least 38 other languages also use a vernacular form of the divine name.

The emphasis that Jesus christ put on the name of his Father indicates that he personally used it freely. (Matthew 6:9; John 17:6, 26) According to Jerome of the fourth century C.E., the apostle Matthew wrote his gospel first in Hebrews, and that Gospel makes numerous quotations of the passages from the Hebrew Scriptures that contain the divine name. Others of the Christian Greek Scripture writers quoted from the Greek Septuagint (a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, begun about 280 B.C.E.), early copies of which contained the divine name in Hebrew character, as shown by actual fragments that have been preserved.

Professor George howard of the university of Georgia wrote: "Since the Tetragram (four Hebrew letters for the divine name) was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N(ew) T(estament) writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text." (See - Journal of Biblical Literature March 1977, page 77.)

WHY ARE SOME VERSES APPARENTLY MISSING?
Those verses, found in some translations, are NOT in the oldest available Bible manuscripts. Comparison with other modern translations, such as The New English Bible and the Catholic Jerusalem Bible, shows that other translators have also recognized that the verses in questions do not belong in the Bible. In some instances, they were taken from another part of the Bible and added to the text being copied by a scribe. (More details on quoted Scripture as well as explanations on this topic another day).

Thus The NEW WORLD TRANSLATION of the Bible is presented with modern, understandable language, and was translated by the original translators closely to what is in the original Bible languages. Interesting to note that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. So we appreciate what translators have done to put it into our language. As persons belonging to that group of people (no matter what religions we all may belong to) that have a hunger for knowledge and are searching for 'Truths', I am sure you would be interested to know what one of the big differences is between the name of the most important person spoken of in the scriptures. That the personal name of God (Jehovah or Yahweh or Tetragrammaton as discussed before) appears in the Bible in the original Hebrew some 7,000 times - more than any other name?' And yes it does make a difference that we use the personal name of God as this encourages a close and personal relationship with our Creator. (See what Jesus said at John 17:3,6; Psalms 83:18) There are many Bible translations other than the one used by Jehovah's Witnesses, that will highlight this name in its full glory, especially older Catholic Bible editions printed around early 1900.

THE DIVINE NAME THAT WILL ENDURE FOREVER

For those interested I will be happy to present this topic in full with scriptural backup another day.

ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES A CULT OR A SECT?
I will furnish information on this topic also another day. But just as a point of interest I'd like to highlight this scripture referring to Paul (one of Jesus prominent Apostles) himself by the authorities of his day.
Acts 24:5, 6 - For we have found this man (Paul who had once been know as a persecutor of christians before he became a believer) a pestilent fellow and stirring up seditions among all the Jews throughout the inhabited earth and a spearhead of the SECT of the Nazarenes. (6) one who also tried to profane the temple and whom we seized. (7) blank (8) from him you yourself can by examination find out about all these things of which we are accusing him.

Here it is showing that even Paul, a convert and devout follower now of Jesus Christ was himself referred as the leader of a sect (or cult). Clearly showing how easy it is to label someone who follows the values of differing principles and ideas within the conventional beliefs of those times in that Jewish society. Also it was mentioned how Jesus tossed out the traders who were defiling his Father's Holy temple. Jesus was visibly agitated and quite fiery as he came to his Father's defense.

As for the missing scripture in (verse 7) - This verse was somewhat superfluous and is not found in the original Greek Diaglott of the Holy Scriptures in the same context. However it can be noted in some other Bible translations where it says: but the chief captain Lysi-as came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands. Already this incident had been mentioned at Acts 223:26,26

However it is mentioned here at Acts 23:26,27 of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION of JW's as it was written down in a brief by chief Captain Claudius Lys'i-as to the Governor Felix as follows: (verse 26) Claudius Lys'i-as to his excellency, Governor Felix: Greetings! (verse 27)This man was seized by the Jews and was about to be done away with by them, but i came suddenly with a force of soldiers and rescued him, because I learned he was a Roman.

But bear with me to those who are interested to learn more, and I will elaborate more on the 'missing scriputures' topic another day. It makes for fascinating reading discovery.

Thank you for reading...
Hello Emer,
read the posts between Terry and I, and also my post concerning your first thread on the New World Translation.

I appreciate the modesty of dress, but this doesn't make up for any errors in doctrine. Error in doctrine does not lead to godliness.

So long as you refuse to repent (change your mind) concerning the deity and person of Christ, dressing up nicely won't change your position or standing before Jehovah.

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  #4  
Old 12-22-2006, 04:16 AM
terry05_99 terry05_99 is offline
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and their use of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION continued.....

We would tell you the same thing EveryKnee, we reconize Christ as the son of God, which he himself plainly said he was.....you cannot serve Jehovah because you don't know who he is. So you need to repent. Now where does this leave us?

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  #5  
Old 12-22-2006, 04:24 AM
EveryKnee EveryKnee is offline
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and their use of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION continued.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry05_99
We would tell you the same thing EveryKnee, we reconize Christ as the son of God, which he himself plainly said he was.....you cannot serve Jehovah because you don't know who he is. So you need to repent. Now where does this leave us?

Concerning the person of Christ I suppose you can read my dialogue with Dave.

But I'd like to ask you, Terry, what are you trusting in concerning having a right standing with God? What do you believe you have to do to be justified before Jehovah?

As they would ask "What do you have to do to go to heaven" ?

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  #6  
Old 12-22-2006, 04:30 AM
terry05_99 terry05_99 is offline
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and their use of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION continued.....

You hold to a God dishonoring doctrine. Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son. Simple, nothing hard about it. So I suggest you repent....again where does this leave us? You are not Judge!

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  #7  
Old 12-22-2006, 05:51 AM
EveryKnee EveryKnee is offline
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Posts: 1,773
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and their use of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION continued.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry05_99
You hold to a God dishonoring doctrine. Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son. Simple, nothing hard about it. So I suggest you repent....again where does this leave us? You are not Judge!
It appears that you'd rather not answer my question, is that the case?

And no, its the other way around; Christ is the I AM of the Old Testament, He is FULLY JEHOVAH, and if you read the verses that I plastered on my posts written to Dave you'd see it.

But you CAN'T repent yourself unless God the Father draws you to Him.

Take a look at the Hebrews passage and the other passages - care to comment on these verses?

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  #8  
Old 12-22-2006, 07:32 AM
dave-st dave-st is offline
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses and their use of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION continued.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryKnee
It appears that you'd rather not answer my question, is that the case?

And no, its the other way around; Christ is the I AM of the Old Testament, He is FULLY JEHOVAH, and if you read the verses that I plastered on my posts written to Dave you'd see it.

But you CAN'T repent yourself unless God the Father draws you to Him.

Take a look at the Hebrews passage and the other passages - care to comment on these verses?

There is no such thing as an "I AM of the Old Testament." You're reading bad arguments and poor translations of the Hebrew verb ehyeh.

I'll be happy to comment on any Hebrews texts. Which ones specifically?

-Dave


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