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  #433  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:19 AM
Samael Samael is offline
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Location: Hudson, NH
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Re: Market America a scam?

Failed too or haven't yet? Again, distinction.

Three percent hardly represents the PSU independent peer reviewed study of average. Then again who am I going to believe? Them or you?


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  #434  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:26 AM
Samael Samael is offline
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Re: Market America a scam?

I want to see you show me where the Unfranchise Owners whom have been building the business 8 to 12 hours a week for three years are in terms of income. But I bet you wont even try. You include numbers of people whom signed up a week ago with numbers of people whom have been in the business since its inception.

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  #435  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:36 AM
RaiSLT RaiSLT is offline
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Re: Market America a scam?

Would you kindly tell me, then, the percentage of the people I included who only joined a week ago?

And, rather, than using other empty attacks, I would appreciate an actual number, in order to make recalculations possible. This I have to see.

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  #436  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:41 AM
RaiSLT RaiSLT is offline
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Re: Market America a scam?

Besides, if I did only include only members that joined very early on, then you're right, the success rate would indeed be higher than 3%.

But why is that?

I say: After I've been suckered for a few years with no results, would I still want to continue living in this nightmare? No; most sane people would quit after seeing that achieving the claimed figures is impossible even after "following the plan". That would mean that those who have "lasted" only did so because they were in the lucky group who managed to swindle countless individuals' deposits.

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  #437  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:56 AM
cscirpoli cscirpoli is offline
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Posts: 873
Re: Market America a scam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiSLT
Now, mind you...

If Market America would, in their next videotape, magazine, and convention just admit that fact loud and clear,
If they would admit that 97-99% of its participants "who follow the plan" are merely being suckered in for their investment to make the other 1-3% percent rich,
If they would acknowledge that the 97% for 3% in their system is even worse than the 95% for 5% that they claim society to be in now,
If they would stop the bull about "as long as you follow the plan" altogether,
If they would apologize to the public for ten years of half-truths and whole lies,
If they would admit that the proportion of products sold to non-distributors falls hopelessly short of the 70% required by law,
If they would stop using fear of other "inferior" products to persuade people to buy its overpriced OPCs which the scientific community has in no way praised (and not to mention that the "evil" FDA hasn't approved of),
If they would, in the coming convention, admit to the world, in a loud and frank voice, that this has all been bull; a well-costumed scam,
If they will stop giving a bad rep to the word "success",
If JR would allow himself to be egged by all the tens upon tens of thousands of angry former distributors who quit (but only after they got suckered for their investment),

Then I will show the utmost respect towards it.


But no, that's not going to happen.


Assume that only 1% of the people right now are following the plan. Thus, in 32 years, MA will have 9 million people following the plan (in addition to a whole lot of people not following the plan)

(Also, with only Pi people below you you can hardly expect to make a living anyway.) :D
Most people don't want to get rich, that's where everyone's mistake is, a lot of people join Network Marketing just to make an extra $500-$2000/month. Those people allow the more ambitious to become wealthy...

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  #438  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:01 PM
RaiSLT RaiSLT is offline
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Re: Market America a scam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cscirpoli
Most people don't want to get rich, that's where everyone's mistake is, a lot of people join Network Marketing just to make an extra $500-$2000/month. Those people allow the more ambitious to become wealthy...
$500 a month equates to $6,000 a year. According to GoNow's figures, less than 37% can achieve even $5,000 a year.

$2,000 a month equates to $24,000 a year. According to GoNow's figures, less than 15% can achieve even $20,000 a year.


Even now as your claims start retreating to more humble territory (which is already something MA itself would never do; surprise surprise), they still fall shy of the truth.


Last edited by RaiSLT : 07-20-2005 at 12:10 PM.
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  #439  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:04 PM
cscirpoli cscirpoli is offline
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Posts: 873
Re: Market America?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charly8100
Look, a lot of our net worth comes from what I got from my parents --who were good financial planners. I'm taking advantage of our position and getting a good education while staying home with my kids. So what? Why execute this flimsy personal attack? It does nothing to enhance your argument. As for your own situation, kudos, if you can sustain it over the long haul at the same rate you are going now. You're supposedly not an MLM so what is your big concern? Independent broker-work is a legit prospect (if you abide by the laws related to it)...

Which brings to mind the question: if MLM was such a wonderful and lucrative opportunity why aren't you still deeply involved in it, instead of looking to other areas to find profit in?

Think of me what you like. I am completely unaffected by your cheap stunts. I know my own worth :) You can try to cast aspersions on my confidence, honesty, financial sense, whatever you like...but it doesn't do anything to my self esteem or my strongly held belief (that is supported by facts) that 1) MLM is bull**** 2) a college education and/or education in general is valuable...more valuable than the former.
I am getting involved in MLM. I was involved with acompany, had the company been able to sustain business, my net worth would have been a whole lot highter. My partner and I are currently in the market for an MLM. At the moment I am implementing a system that will make my mortgage business run on its own. Once that happens, my partner and I will then join another Network Marketing company and off we go. This is why I am here :)

And so a lot of what your worth comes from your parents, ahhh. So it's really nothing that you or your husband has done personally. Thats interesting. So this ingenuity and hard work that you value so much, that's not what brought you your networth a windfall did. Now I'm not saying that makes worth any less money. But let's wait a few years, see how well and how fast you can compound that money...then we'll talk philosophies. Until then, how can you say that you are financially literate. You haven't done *anything* for yourself financially yet. You just got *lucky*


Last edited by cscirpoli : 07-20-2005 at 12:12 PM.
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  #440  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:28 PM
cscirpoli cscirpoli is offline
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Posts: 873
Re: Market America a scam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiSLT
$500 a month equates to $6,000 a year. According to GoNow's figures, less than 37% can achieve even $5,000 a year.

$2,000 a month equates to $24,000 a year. According to GoNow's figures, less than 15% can achieve even $20,000 a year.


Even now as your claims start retreating to more humble territory (which is already something MA itself would never do; surprise surprise), they still fall shy of the truth.
Earnings up to $5,000......................35.24
$1,001-$3,,000..............................19.34
$3,001-$5,000...............................8.69
$5,001-$10,000.............................13.93
$10,001-$20,000............................8.03
$20,001-$30,000............................4.43
$30,001-$40,000............................2.79
$40,001-$50,000............................1.48
$50,001-$80,000............................2.95
Over $80,000.................................3.12

If these numbers are true, than not less than, but up to 37% of the people make that income. ($500/month)

As well, for the 24k/yr up to about 50% make that income. Those numbers sound pretty good to me, I don't know what you're talking about...


lol i dont pretend to be affialiated with whoever made that post... I have never overstated income, remember the different people you talk to my friend. I don't pretend to say that everyone get's rich. The numbers are the same, from the traditional business percentages to MLM, to franchise. Take my business for instance, I thin 20,000 people/month drop out of the mortgage business. People just can't hack it, what you gonna. I dont' see you guys in here calling it a scam...


Last edited by cscirpoli : 07-20-2005 at 12:39 PM.
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  #441  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:32 PM
cayatendance's Avatar
cayatendance cayatendance is offline
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Re: Market America?

its nice to have money given to you, or passed down to you...But when you havent learned to earn these figures YOURSELF, it will never last, or you will spend your life guarding it, knowing deep inside you dont know how to reproduce it...

Why do lottery winners go crazy, absolutely INSANE? It's something everyone dreams about, "If only i hit the lottery, WOULDNT THAT be sweet!" - those people lose it all, very quickly (if their sisters and brothers arent hiring hitmen to kill them first) because they never understood and went through the "Earning" part of that wealth - they dont actually understand MONEY.

"Make a goal to become a millionaire, for what it will make of you to achieve it" - Jim Rohn

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  #442  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:41 PM
cscirpoli cscirpoli is offline
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Re: Market America?

nice...so well put

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  #443  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:43 PM
RaiSLT RaiSLT is offline
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Re: Market America?

Hmm, let me try this:

Why are the Market America products so expensive compared to other products? (Choose one) :o

1. They are of a higher quality than the products of competitors
2. Market America requires a lot of money (a ridiculous markup) to pay commision to the many distributors needed to market a mediocre product


OK, so you chose #1.

Then, let my say this: If they are of such a higher quality, give proof that the OPC3's factories' selling price exceeds the selling price of factories of rival products.

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  #444  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:45 PM
cscirpoli cscirpoli is offline
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Re: Market America?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiSLT
Hmm, let me try this:

Why are the Market America products so expensive compared to other products? (Choose one) :o

1. They are of a higher quality than the products of competitors
2. Market America requires a lot of money (a ridiculous markup) to pay commision to the many distributors needed to market a mediocre product


OK, so you chose #1.

Then, let my say this: If they are of such a higher quality, give proof that the OPC3's factories' selling price exceeds the selling price of factories of rival products.
Why, I"M NOT A PART OF MARKET AMERICA. I just support MLM in general. Why do you keep jumping from topic to topic, it's like ok i couldn't discredit you here, I'll go here. Dude, just leave it alone, you're done...

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  #445  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:47 PM
RaiSLT RaiSLT is offline
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Re: Market America a scam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cscirpoli
If these numbers are true, than not less than, but up to 37% of the people make that income. ($500/month)
I guess you could put it that way. :p


Last edited by RaiSLT : 07-20-2005 at 12:49 PM.
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  #446  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:50 PM
cscirpoli cscirpoli is offline
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Posts: 873
Re: Market America a scam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiSLT
I guess you could put it that way. :p
it's called language my friend, the way you speak determines your attitude, your attitude determines your direction, your direction determines where you end up...

and you're forgetting something, most people do this business part time, so those are great numbers. Most people just add that income onto what they are already doing...that makes for a huge bump in lifestyle as well as the xtra tax deductions you get. Man people are doing good there...

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  #447  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:55 PM
RaiSLT RaiSLT is offline
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Posts: 32
Re: Market America a scam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cscirpoli
As well, for the 24k/yr up to about 50% make that income. Those numbers sound pretty good to me, I don't know what you're talking about...
You might as well have said "Up to about 10,000,000%".


Quote:
Originally Posted by cscirpoli
it's called language my friend, the way you speak determines your attitude, your attitude determines your direction, your direction determines where you end up...
www.marketwaveinc.com/articles/RomanticSemantics.asp


Last edited by RaiSLT : 07-20-2005 at 12:58 PM.
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  #448  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:58 PM
cscirpoli cscirpoli is offline
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Posts: 873
Re: Market America a scam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiSLT
You might as well have said "Up to about 10,000,000%".



www.marketwaveinc.com/articles/RomanticSemantics.asp
lol did i try and spin something, i basically took a negative and turned it into a possitive, what you have there is not MLM, but marketing techniques... ichoose to be positive you choose to be negative, and I would be willing to bet your income reflects...

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  #449  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:59 PM
Charly8100 Charly8100 is offline
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Posts: 10
Re: Market America?

I'm on here responding to other things at the moment but I'll stop by to address your taunting.

So what? Some of what I have was given to me, some of it I reinvested in other areas that have produced reliable returns and the rest I'm using to invest in educational goals. I don't see what is wrong with that. Obviously, I've understood finances well enough to make wise investment choices with what I was given.

Tossing silly personal attacks aside, why won't anyone respond to my statements regarding the market saturation problem that MLMs typically have? Why won't anyone answer the charge that MLMs main profit-making endeavor is its low level distributors? 1-3% of MLM plan-followers are wealthy because of (and only because of) the money that low level distributors have lost on the venture.

How can you honestly believe that a company whose supply exceeds product demand is profitable? And don't tell me that there is a huge demand and everyone wants to buy XYZ product. No matter what the product there will always be a certain number of people who will actually buy it. It can be a great product but still, if production exceeds demand (the number of people buying it) the company will go under. Everyone needs toilet paper but what makes you think that your MLM is going to sell all the toilet paper to all the people? It does not make sense. Market dynamics never work that way even if the product quality is absolutely amazing and the prices are unbeatable.

The only way it makes sense is by placing the burden on the lower levels of the "multi-level-marketing" company. The low level distributors ARE the customers that shore up the business and not the other way around.

Simple principles of economics tell you a different story that is hard to overlook.

But, as I said before, I give up. It is like trying to call up John Travolta and tell him there's no such thing as an engram and he's not attained universal knowledge.

Whatever. This entire site is too bizarre for my blood. I'm out of here. This is my last post on the topic or any topic on this forum. Alice is climbing out of the rabbit hole.

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  #450  
Old 07-20-2005, 01:10 PM
RaiSLT RaiSLT is offline
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Posts: 32
Re: Market America a scam?

Yeah, I live on the streets now begging for money because I should have known to use the extremely useful (not to mention honest) marketing technique of "Up to" during my brief career as a telemarketer. If only I'd known.....


"You can earn up to $80,000, or more!"

Tell me that that doesn't cover every number from zero to infinity.


I guess computer engineers are so stupid then, naming the operators "Less than, equal to, greater than" and not "Up to, equal to, as low as"...

Code:
If Price is as low as $1000
Print "This price is very inexpensive!"
ElseIf Price is up to $1000
Print "This price is very expensive!"
End If



Last edited by RaiSLT : 07-20-2005 at 01:27 PM.
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