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  #1  
Old 10-18-2006, 08:58 AM
knuperup knuperup is offline
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Agree or Disagree?

Statement: Matter only comes from matter according to science. This makes the origin of matter impossible. Therefore, matter must have originated from a source unfamiliar to us. This unfamilair source would have to be outside the realm of our physical existance, and therefore not bound by the laws of science.

Agree or Disagree?


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  #2  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:12 AM
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ianmatthews ianmatthews is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Disagree. Not knowing the source or origin of matter doesn't mean that such a thing is "not bound by the laws of science" It just means we don't know what it is yet.

To say that "Therefore, matter must have originated from a source unfamiliar to us" is a logical fallacy.



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  #3  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:18 AM
knuperup knuperup is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Quote:
Not knowing the source or origin of matter doesn't mean that such a thing is "not bound by the laws of science" It just means we don't know what it is yet.
If we found this "thing" that can create matter from nothing (or non-matter), wouldn't it contradict the law of science that states matter comes only from matter? And since such a source MUST exist, isn't this law of science false?


Last edited by knuperup : 10-18-2006 at 09:20 AM.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:20 AM
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ianmatthews ianmatthews is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuperup
If we found this "thing" that can create matter nothing, wouldn't it contradict the law of science that states matter comes only from matter? And since such a source MUST exist, shouldn't this law of science be false?
No, because there's no reason for the options to include such a device. The Big Bang Theory already makes more sense than that.

For one thing, do you mean "matter" as in the realms of physics, chemistry or just colloquially? That's a good place to start this debate. That way we have the same definitions or lack for the term.


Last edited by ianmatthews : 10-18-2006 at 09:22 AM.
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:23 AM
knuperup knuperup is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

I don't understand... so you believe matter has no origin, and has always just "been"?

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  #6  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:26 AM
knuperup knuperup is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

I'm sorry I just read the second part of your reply...

I define matter as the most basic building blocks of the universe. The elements.

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  #7  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:30 AM
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ianmatthews ianmatthews is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Here, read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter

I don't have the time to explain definitions of matter to you. Why do you enter debates on this board about topics you seem to have little education about? Is the point of this to say that because man hasn't found an answer regarding our universe, that it must be caused by a higher power? Sorry, I deal in the scientific method : ) It's worked pretty well so far.

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  #8  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:31 AM
knuperup knuperup is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

We know from extensive studies that matter is never completely destroyed. It is simply broken down into smaller and smaller parts. Likewise matter is never formed. It is a combination of elements already in existance...

So the origin of such matter is impossible using our understanding of science. Since there had to be an origin, isn't it logical to say that the source of matter is above our current understanding of physics and the universe?

That being said, is the concept of "God" really such a foolish thought?


Last edited by knuperup : 10-18-2006 at 09:46 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:32 AM
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ianmatthews ianmatthews is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuperup
So the origin of such matter is impossible using our understanding of science. Since there had to be an origin, isn't it logical to say that the source of matter is above our current understanding of physics and the universe?
It IS logical to say it is beyond our understanding, but ILLOGICAL to say that it could never be understood by man.

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  #10  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:33 AM
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yossarian yossarian is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuperup
Statement: Matter only comes from matter according to science. This makes the origin of matter impossible. Therefore, matter must have originated from a source unfamiliar to us. This unfamilair source would have to be outside the realm of our physical existance, and therefore not bound by the laws of science.

Agree or Disagree?
Quit trying to prove the existence of God through scientific argument -- it's painfully obvious to everyone here that you're out of your depth. God isn't out to prove his existence to us. He provided us with the Bible along with the choice to believe in Him or not. He wants us to choose Him out of love and faith, not as a reaction to a set of scientific facts or theories.

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  #11  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:38 AM
knuperup knuperup is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Woah man, put away the claws. lol. I'm not here to prove God to anyone, he's quite obvious. I'm simply here to gain more of an understanding of what people believe these days. And why they belive it.

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  #12  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:59 AM
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yossarian yossarian is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuperup
Woah man, put away the claws. lol.
Sorry. They're not retractable.

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  #13  
Old 10-18-2006, 10:21 AM
knuperup knuperup is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

haha... :p

Any other comments on this subject?

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  #14  
Old 10-18-2006, 10:28 AM
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ianmatthews ianmatthews is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Formation of the universe from nothing need not violate conservation of energy. The gravitational potential energy of a gravitational field is a negative energy. When all the gravitational potential energy is added to all the other energy in the universe, it might sum to zero

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  #15  
Old 10-18-2006, 12:06 PM
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

don't care

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  #16  
Old 10-18-2006, 01:42 PM
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RememberMyName RememberMyName is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Does it matter?

:(
__________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing ."
- Edmund Burke 1729—1797

"A leader is someone who ask all the questions and lead others with his own answers while a follower is someone who never ask questions and follow others with his own blindness."
- Christian A. Fleetwood

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  #17  
Old 10-18-2006, 04:52 PM
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kazza kazza is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmatthews
Formation of the universe from nothing need not violate conservation of energy. The gravitational potential energy of a gravitational field is a negative energy. When all the gravitational potential energy is added to all the other energy in the universe, it might sum to zero
I was about to type exactly the same thing, good thing I read the rest of the thread first. Should also mention, for knuperup's sake, that energy and mass are equivalent, so it may be that the total mass-energy of the universe is actually zero. And then on a quantum scale, mass-energy conservation is violated within the limits of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, but lets stick to the basics for now.

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  #18  
Old 10-19-2006, 06:53 AM
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lexx lexx is offline
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

would someone explain wahy so much fuss and fancy over "0"!?hehe!!.....just askin......


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