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  #1  
Old 10-14-2006, 05:24 AM
bairdi's Avatar
bairdi bairdi is offline
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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Big Brother strikes again! You've got to know when to hold em and know when to fold em, but this time the Republicans, those slimy little freedom hating critters, may have upped the ante too high for their own good. Tacked on to a port security bill which Bush signed today was a provision which will attempt to stop internet gaming. I've got a feeling that a lot of people who enjoy a little relaxation by playing internet poker after a hard day's work are going to be mighty pissed off. And to think, election day is less than 4 weeks away.

Poker players battle crackdown on Internet gambling

By Richard Clough

Chicago Tribune

(MCT)

WASHINGTON - Online poker players are nervously awaiting President Bush's expected signature this week on legislation that would kick them out of their virtual casinos.

The measure, designed to block the financial transactions that have fueled Internet gambling, was quietly attached to a port security bill in a flurry of last-minute activity before Congress adjourned in late September.

The legislation threatens to cripple the $12 billion online gambling industry, cutting off about half of the world's Web-based gaming revenue. It has already forced the suspension of several Internet gambling companies' lucrative U.S. operations and has sent shock waves through the gaming world.

"Who is Congress to tell people what to do in their own home when it doesn't bother anybody else?" asked Mike Sexton, a professional poker player and commentator for the World Poker Tour. "We feel like our rights have been violated."

Most of the 2,300 gambling Web sites currently operating are based outside the United States, often on Caribbean islands or in Central America and Europe, to avoid U.S. law, which prohibits many types of gambling under the Federal Wire Act. Enforcement of the law is difficult, however, and the companies have made billions of dollars annually from American bettors.

The bill that Bush is expected to sign adds considerable enforcement muscle, prohibiting banks and credit card companies from processing online gambling transactions based in the U.S.

Chad Hills, a gambling research analyst for Focus on the Family, a conservative group, applauded the bill's passage, saying the laws in place had been flouted for too long. Online gambling operations, he said, "were making a mockery of our U.S. policy, they were making a mockery of our Congress, they were making a mockery of our ability to enforce this legislation."

But gamblers aren't buying in on the idea. On the gambling Web site Cardplayer.com, poker professional Thor Hansen called the passage "a bad day for poker" and Shannon Shorr, a professional poker player, called the measure "both frustrating and devastating."

Michael Bolcerek, president of Poker Players Alliance, said outlawing online gambling will just push it underground rather than eliminate it. Leading the charge against the legislation, the Poker Players Alliance has begun to focus its efforts on securing legal exemptions for online poker.

Poker, some players argue, is a skill sport and should be afforded an exemption from gambling bans, like those currently given to fantasy sports, horse racing and state lotteries.

In advance of the bill's signing, major betting firms have taken severe financial hits.

The British online gambling firm World Gaming, which derives as much as 95 percent of its revenue from U.S.-based gambling, asked the London Stock Exchange on Monday to stop trading its stock over fears for the company's future. The value of the company's stock declined by 88 percent last week.

Many publicly traded online gambling companies have also seen their shares crumble in the past week, draining the industry of an estimated $8 billion in market value.

On Tuesday, European online gambling outfits Fairground Gaming and FireOne announced the immediate suspension of their U.S. operations.

London-based Fairground, which derives a large percentage of its profit from the U.S. market, said in a press release that it is "attending urgently to appropriate cost-cutting measures" to offset the significant losses it expects to incur as a result of the legislation. Similarly, Dublin-based FireOne said in a press release that it "has embarked upon a restructuring of its operations and cost base" as its awaits Bush's bill signing.

The world's largest Internet gambling company, Gibraltar-based PartyGaming, which derives about 80 percent of its $1 billion annual revenue from the U.S., said it will end its U.S. operations if the bill is signed.

"This development is a significant setback for our company, our shareholders, our players and our industry," Mitch Garber, chief executive of PartyGaming Ltd., said in a statement.

But not all companies are closing up shop in the U.S.

The gambling Web site Poker.com, based in Brisbane, Australia, said the legislation would have little or no effect on its U.S. operations.

"We will not be stopping U.S.-based players from playing at Poker.com and all player account balances are 100 percent safe and will always be readily accessible," the company said.

---

© 2006, Chicago Tribune.


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  #2  
Old 10-14-2006, 06:23 PM
Phinnly Slash Buster's Avatar
Phinnly Slash Buster Phinnly Slash Buster is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

I have been monitoring this issue for a while. My opinion is domestic gaming concerns have been lobbying for this for a while and in the Washington State recently they passed a similar law. Here in Gettysburg they are considering gambling mostly slots but I’m sure this will be expanded to include poker in time. Domestic gaming concerns obviously think they will make more money from poker players if on line gaming is banned.
This reminds me of another controversy a few years back.
Do you remember when Donald Trump called ‘Quick Draw’ video crack ?
The Donald felt threatened by New York’s newly installed keno game. ‘Quick Draw’
Every casino that I have been in , including Donald's, also has a keno game.
Everyone in NY knows Donald is an imbecile and a lying sack of sh!t so no one paid much attention to his ranting.

There is a parallel here though. The religious right seems to find on line poker morally offensive, what a joke. We know these lying sacks of sh!t are heavily invested in domestic gaming houses. In the gaming communities in the mid-west and the south Casinos have the full support of The Religious Right‘s leadership.




Last edited by Phinnly Slash Buster : 10-14-2006 at 06:39 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-15-2006, 12:43 AM
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bairdi bairdi is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
I have been monitoring this issue for a while. My opinion is domestic gaming concerns have been lobbying for this for a while and in the Washington State recently they passed a similar law. Here in Gettysburg they are considering gambling mostly slots but I’m sure this will be expanded to include poker in time. Domestic gaming concerns obviously think they will make more money from poker players if on line gaming is banned.
This reminds me of another controversy a few years back.
Do you remember when Donald Trump called ‘Quick Draw’ video crack ?
The Donald felt threatened by New York’s newly installed keno game. ‘Quick Draw’
Every casino that I have been in , including Donald's, also has a keno game.
Everyone in NY knows Donald is an imbecile and a lying sack of sh!t so no one paid much attention to his ranting.

There is a parallel here though. The religious right seems to find on line poker morally offensive, what a joke. We know these lying sacks of sh!t are heavily invested in domestic gaming houses. In the gaming communities in the mid-west and the south Casinos have the full support of The Religious Right‘s leadership.
I live near the Pittsburgh area. I have never understood why the rural conservative areas of the state have worked so hard to keep gaming illegal in the state. People who want to gamble will gamble. So much gambling money from this state has gone over to W. Virginia, New York and New Jersey when it all could have stayed here. The only thing that really concerns me is that the amount of money that they say will be generated for the state is so large that I don't think anyone will walk out of the slots parlor a winner.

I just find it so hypocritical of the Repugs and conservatives on this internet gambling legislation. They say they are for less government and for keeping the government out of our lives, but when it comes to any type of issue involving morality they are Big Brother personified, right there in your face. I've dabbled a very little bit in internet poker just for the fun of it. I say it's my money, I worked extremely hard for it and will spend it as I want. If they want the money that is going overseas, then I say open internet gaming to companies in the US. Prohibition didn't work and neither will this.

As an aside, I anxiously awaiting for Santorum to do down. I can't stand that neocon bastard.

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  #4  
Old 10-15-2006, 01:00 AM
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

This was tacked on to a port security bill? Why are the conservatives worried about this when they've got the war on terror to fight and our borders are still open. Why should somebody not be allowed to gamble? It's their money. I guess the conservatives want to shove their values down everbody elses throat!

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  #5  
Old 10-15-2006, 02:46 AM
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bairdi bairdi is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Button
This was tacked on to a port security bill? Why are the conservatives worried about this when they've got the war on terror to fight and our borders are still open. Why should somebody not be allowed to gamble? It's their money. I guess the conservatives want to shove their values down everbody elses throat!
This is how these slime creatures operate Button. Frist tacked this on at the last minute. Now if a democrat voted against the port security bill because of the provision to stop internet gambling then the repugs would unleash their attack machine to say that he or she was against tighter port security. And on the other hand, if any dem criticizes the provision, then the Repugs will say how can you criticize it when you voted for it. That's how it works. If you look closely, you will notice that this is how the local Repug propagandist on this board operates too.

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  #6  
Old 10-15-2006, 10:33 PM
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pwrone pwrone is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

This from from the bunch who have NEVER answered the question: " Which of your freedoms, specifically, have you lost as a result of the Bush Presidency?"

Um...internet gambling? If you are too stupid or lazy to figure out how to do it, then this bill is the best thing that could happen. What prospect would you have in a game of chance where even analytical decision-making--that you seem incapable of-- could only marginally reduce the house edge?

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  #7  
Old 10-15-2006, 11:31 PM
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bairdi bairdi is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrone
This from from the bunch who have NEVER answered the question: " Which of your freedoms, specifically, have you lost as a result of the Bush Presidency?"

Um...internet gambling? If you are too stupid or lazy to figure out how to do it, then this bill is the best thing that could happen. What prospect would you have in a game of chance where even analytical decision-making--that you seem incapable of-- could only marginally reduce the house edge?
In answer to the first part of your post, I know that you will believe nothing that comes from a liberal or left wing source, so let's hear what the conservatives have to say about it.(As shown by the "let's blame Clinton" language) The second part of your post is so unintelligible that I can't make any sense of what you are trying to say whatsoever.

Freedoms lost under G.W. Bush


Chuck Baldwin
Chuck Baldwin
January 31, 2005


Supporters and apologists for President G.W. Bush will often assail my assertion that the Bush administration has done more to dismantle constitutional protections of our liberties than any president in modern memory. It seems that these people believe that until federal Storm Troopers knock down the doors of their homes and drag them off to the gulags, they have lost no freedoms. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If history is any teacher, it instructs us in the incremental process that elitists use to implement their totalitarian agenda. The first step is to use an incessant, highly orchestrated propaganda. For all practical purposes, the major media in the United States is providing that propaganda. At the national level, there is hardly any investigative journalism going on. Instead, the national press corps has become little more than lazy lackeys for the White House.

The second step is to lay the foundation for totalitarianism by passing legislation that may later be used against the citizenry. And that is exactly what the Bush administration has very successfully accomplished. It very adroitly succeeded where the Clinton administration failed.

For example, most conservatives would be surprised to learn that the Patriot Act and Department of Homeland Security was the brainchild of one William Jefferson Clinton. However, a recalcitrant Republican Congress denied Clinton the opportunity to implement these plans. Of course, with the Republican, G.W. Bush, serving as President, that same Republican Congress was all too eager to pass these bills into law.

The third step is to demonize and marginalize anyone and everyone who opposes the government's plans and ambitions. Such opponents are characterized as "unpatriotic," "obstructionist," "uncompassionate," or even "ungodly." Once again, the Bush minions have very skillfully done just that. Anyone who dares to oppose or even question Bush must be regarded as enemies of America or even as enemies of God.

Of course, the last step is to begin using the power and force of government to physically silence or remove those who are determined to require such treatment. And, as Germany's National Socialists proved, by the time this happens, there is no one around who is capable of coming to the assistance of such people.

For those who are willing to objectively analyze Bush's actions and policies, the truth is clearly seen: this President has systematically put in place laws, policies, and bureaucracies that can, are, and will continue to strip the American citizenry of the constitutional protections of their liberties.

Following are examples of freedoms which President Bush and his fellow Republicans in Congress have already expunged (as reported by the Associated Press):

* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.

* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once- public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.

* FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

* RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

These rights have already been lost! Whether individual Americans have been personally subjected to the resultant tyranny or not doesn't change the fact that they have already lost these freedoms! This fact, alone, should be enough for any studious lover-of-liberty to be outraged!

That good men are compliant and unconcerned regarding G.W. Bush's propensity to trample constitutional freedoms bespeaks a great ignorance or a great apathy, or both!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Baldwin is Founder-Pastor of Crossroads Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida. In 1985, the church was recognized by President Ronald Reagan for its unusual growth and influence.

While he originally planned on a career in law enforcement, Chuck "answered the divine call to Gospel ministry" and decided instead to attend Bible school. He ultimately earned his Bachelor's and Master's degrees in theology, and was later awarded two honorary doctorates in the field.

He is the host of Chuck Baldwin Live, a daily, two hour long radio call-in show on the events of the day. In addition to writing two books of theology — "Subjects Seldom Spoken On" and "This Is The Life" — he has edited and produced "The Freedom Documents," a collection of fifty of the greatest documents of American history.

In 2004, Chuck was the vice presidential nominee for the Constitution Party. Chuck and his wife Connie are the parents of three children and grandparents of six.

© Copyright 2005 by Chuck Baldwin
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/baldwin/050131

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  #8  
Old 10-16-2006, 01:08 AM
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pwrone pwrone is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

I think that "...Whether individual Americans have been personally subjected to the resultant tyranny or not...." sort of sums it up. In other words, no one has actually lost any freedoms...got it. To liberals, actual facts are inimportant.

If you cannot understand the last part of the post, you are exactly who it was intended for. Allow me to simplify: Don't gamble. Ever.

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  #9  
Old 10-16-2006, 01:31 AM
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bairdi bairdi is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrone
I think that "...Whether individual Americans have been personally subjected to the resultant tyranny or not...." sort of sums it up. In other words, no one has actually lost any freedoms...got it. To liberals, actual facts are inimportant.

If you cannot understand the last part of the post, you are exactly who it was intended for. Allow me to simplify: Don't gamble. Ever.
Actually the sentence was "Whether individual Americans have been personally subjected to the resultant tyranny or not doesn't change the fact that they have already lost these freedoms! " and you are correct, it does sum it up.

Don't gamble is probably good advise, but that's not the point. If Joebagodonuts decides that he wants to relax by playing a few hands of poker on some internet site after work, why should the government tell him how he can or cannot spend his money? The problem I have is the sleazy way that the Repugs passed this legislation. Why not debate the provision on its own merits instead of tacking it onto a much needed port security bill?

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  #10  
Old 10-16-2006, 01:44 AM
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dchristie dchristie is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bairdi
Big Brother strikes again! You've got to know when to hold em and know when to fold em, but this time the Republicans, those slimy little freedom hating critters, may have upped the ante too high for their own good. Tacked on to a port security bill which Bush signed today was a provision which will attempt to stop internet gaming. I've got a feeling that a lot of people who enjoy a little relaxation by playing internet poker after a hard day's work are going to be mighty pissed off. And to think, election day is less than 4 weeks away.

Poker players battle crackdown on Internet gambling

By Richard Clough

Chicago Tribune

(MCT)

WASHINGTON - Online poker players are nervously awaiting President Bush's expected signature this week on legislation that would kick them out of their virtual casinos.

The measure, designed to block the financial transactions that have fueled Internet gambling, was quietly attached to a port security bill in a flurry of last-minute activity before Congress adjourned in late September.

The legislation threatens to cripple the $12 billion online gambling industry, cutting off about half of the world's Web-based gaming revenue. It has already forced the suspension of several Internet gambling companies' lucrative U.S. operations and has sent shock waves through the gaming world.

"Who is Congress to tell people what to do in their own home when it doesn't bother anybody else?" asked Mike Sexton, a professional poker player and commentator for the World Poker Tour. "We feel like our rights have been violated."

Most of the 2,300 gambling Web sites currently operating are based outside the United States, often on Caribbean islands or in Central America and Europe, to avoid U.S. law, which prohibits many types of gambling under the Federal Wire Act. Enforcement of the law is difficult, however, and the companies have made billions of dollars annually from American bettors.

The bill that Bush is expected to sign adds considerable enforcement muscle, prohibiting banks and credit card companies from processing online gambling transactions based in the U.S.

Chad Hills, a gambling research analyst for Focus on the Family, a conservative group, applauded the bill's passage, saying the laws in place had been flouted for too long. Online gambling operations, he said, "were making a mockery of our U.S. policy, they were making a mockery of our Congress, they were making a mockery of our ability to enforce this legislation."

But gamblers aren't buying in on the idea. On the gambling Web site Cardplayer.com, poker professional Thor Hansen called the passage "a bad day for poker" and Shannon Shorr, a professional poker player, called the measure "both frustrating and devastating."

Michael Bolcerek, president of Poker Players Alliance, said outlawing online gambling will just push it underground rather than eliminate it. Leading the charge against the legislation, the Poker Players Alliance has begun to focus its efforts on securing legal exemptions for online poker.

Poker, some players argue, is a skill sport and should be afforded an exemption from gambling bans, like those currently given to fantasy sports, horse racing and state lotteries.

In advance of the bill's signing, major betting firms have taken severe financial hits.

The British online gambling firm World Gaming, which derives as much as 95 percent of its revenue from U.S.-based gambling, asked the London Stock Exchange on Monday to stop trading its stock over fears for the company's future. The value of the company's stock declined by 88 percent last week.

Many publicly traded online gambling companies have also seen their shares crumble in the past week, draining the industry of an estimated $8 billion in market value.

On Tuesday, European online gambling outfits Fairground Gaming and FireOne announced the immediate suspension of their U.S. operations.

London-based Fairground, which derives a large percentage of its profit from the U.S. market, said in a press release that it is "attending urgently to appropriate cost-cutting measures" to offset the significant losses it expects to incur as a result of the legislation. Similarly, Dublin-based FireOne said in a press release that it "has embarked upon a restructuring of its operations and cost base" as its awaits Bush's bill signing.

The world's largest Internet gambling company, Gibraltar-based PartyGaming, which derives about 80 percent of its $1 billion annual revenue from the U.S., said it will end its U.S. operations if the bill is signed.

"This development is a significant setback for our company, our shareholders, our players and our industry," Mitch Garber, chief executive of PartyGaming Ltd., said in a statement.

But not all companies are closing up shop in the U.S.

The gambling Web site Poker.com, based in Brisbane, Australia, said the legislation would have little or no effect on its U.S. operations.

"We will not be stopping U.S.-based players from playing at Poker.com and all player account balances are 100 percent safe and will always be readily accessible," the company said.

---

© 2006, Chicago Tribune.

Ha! This is just one more, out of innumerable other examples, of Big Brother Nanny State Control Freaks strong arming their way into our living rooms and controlling every facet of our lives. Funny thing. This is most always courtesy of the "smaller government" folks that call themselves Republican "conservatives".

Here's a cool pastime. Do you know a so called "conservative"? Start wagering on each one's mortality.


Last edited by dchristie : 10-16-2006 at 01:52 AM.
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2006, 02:03 AM
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dchristie dchristie is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrone
I think that "...Whether individual Americans have been personally subjected to the resultant tyranny or not...." sort of sums it up. In other words, no one has actually lost any freedoms...got it. To liberals, actual facts are inimportant.

If you cannot understand the last part of the post, you are exactly who it was intended for. Allow me to simplify: Don't gamble. Ever.
To these right-wing commie control freaks, what you do in the privacy of your own home is nobody's business but theirs. In other words, everybody gets to have all the freedom they say we can...got it?
Allow me to sum this up for you. Go fvck yourself with a roulette wheel. And if your fellow fascist Monkey goons try your tyrannical Soviet style bullsh!t in my house, you'll do so from the wrong end of a gun.


Last edited by dchristie : 10-16-2006 at 02:06 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-16-2006, 06:39 AM
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pwrone pwrone is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Gun ownership...another 'right' brought to you, and protected for you, by conservatives. Enjoy it.

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  #13  
Old 10-16-2006, 07:21 AM
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dchristie dchristie is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

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Originally Posted by pwrone
Gun ownership...another 'right' brought to you, and protected for you, by conservatives. Enjoy it.
Maybe, but you're sure as hell no conservative. And neither are any of your Rethuglican Monkey idols.


Last edited by dchristie : 10-16-2006 at 07:43 AM.
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2006, 06:40 PM
Indie Indie is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Im not a gambler. Personally I think its a waste of money but what someone does with that money is thier business.Certainly you dont stop people from gambling by bannig it.Youd think we would learn from past bans on alcohal,abortion and the on going ban on drugs.And relize that it only encourages illigal activities and serves only to aid the funding of our ever growing black market economy.

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  #15  
Old 10-16-2006, 08:25 PM
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dchristie dchristie is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

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Originally Posted by Indie
Im not a gambler. Personally I think its a waste of money but what someone does with that money is thier business.Certainly you dont stop people from gambling by bannig it.Youd think we would learn from past bans on alcohal,abortion and the on going ban on drugs.And relize that it only encourages illigal activities and serves only to aid the funding of our ever growing black market economy.

That's just one of innumerable concepts on the long list these retarded right-wing fascist Monkey vermin can never get their "minds" around.

They always "think" that running ever more draconian, intrusive and un-enforceable laws up our asses that intrude on everybody's personal lives is the universal solution to all of mankind's ills.

That would be insane and stupid enough even if it weren't always coming from the so called "Small Government" crew.

It's the rank and wanton hypocrisy of these fvcking brain-dead Monkeys which makes it all so noxious and appallingly idiotic.


Last edited by dchristie : 10-16-2006 at 08:31 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2006, 05:02 AM
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pwrone pwrone is offline
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Are you really so fvcking stupid that you would not see the logic of this particular action? Do you know how much money we are talking about ? Do you, a stinking liberal if ever there was one, not appreciate the tax implications here? The opportunity to hide monies from taxation? Is it because you do not actually make any money that you do not understand it? Get a job, pay some taxes...

As (seemingly) always, childlike liberals are angry whenever they are told "no", for any reason.

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  #17  
Old 10-18-2006, 07:48 AM
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrone
Gun ownership...another 'right' brought to you, and protected for you, by conservatives. Enjoy it.
why stop with assault rifles and automatic weapons!?I WANT NUKES!!hehe!!now that's a LEVEL playin field!?hehe!!..just askin.....

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  #18  
Old 10-18-2006, 10:27 AM
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Re: Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Button
This was tacked on to a port security bill? Why are the conservatives worried about this when they've got the war on terror to fight and our borders are still open. Why should somebody not be allowed to gamble? It's their money. I guess the conservatives want to shove their values down everbody elses throat!
I dont think it is as much a conservative movement as a religious one.
It isnt anyones business what someone does with their money but the
religious right thinks its evil...Ive never really understood why. If someone
squanders their income, well, too bad....but dont expect anyone to bail
them out. Tough!


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