Cash Gifting

sbrandt · #1 03-01-2005, 02:02 PM

so up pops "True Wealth Today"

I read an Bizop ad in the local paper here in NJ. It is worded obscure enough that it tickles my curiosity so I call a woman named Jennifer from Michigan. Pleasant woman who invites me to a conference call where the program will be explained in detail for those looking to make some honest money.

Conference call is "by invitation only". I plug in and hear the most outrageous claims made about a $3,500 gifting program that calls for hog-tying some others who'll fork over $3,500 too and these funds will be spin-dried around the bin until you receive many times more than the $3,500 one puts in.

Sad thing are the testimonials by program converts who insist on the legitimacy of the program, the IRS regs that permit it, it not being MLM and the audacious point that the program participants are HELPING EACH OTHER
( profiled around some twisted benevolence theme). In march financial consultants that have swamied this new product offering.

My disillusionmant that this MI woman, who tells me she is a Christian, then turns around and justifies her participationand promotion of such an illegal scam.

Cash gifting programs that are grounded in no product or service but require recruiting many people in order for the financial rewards to be realized CANNOT SUCCEED FOR ALL THE PROGRAM PARTICIPANTS. The numbers becme geometric, and the people getting in at the bottom are sure losers.

STAY AWAY FROM TRUE WEALTH TODAY since you will get caught, return monies collected, be responsible for fines and penalties and potential criminal prosecution for your involvement and promotion of this scam.

It was revolting hearing the hundreds of people getting whipped up into a program feeding frenzie on the conference calls - these people are not going to know what truck hit them when this scam unwinds

Sim-X · #2 03-06-2005, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbrandt

so up pops "True Wealth Today"

I read an Bizop ad in the local paper here in NJ. It is worded obscure enough that it tickles my curiosity so I call a woman named Jennifer from Michigan. Pleasant woman who invites me to a conference call where the program will be explained in detail for those looking to make some honest money.

Conference call is "by invitation only". I plug in and hear the most outrageous claims made about a $3,500 gifting program that calls for hog-tying some others who'll fork over $3,500 too and these funds will be spin-dried around the bin until you receive many times more than the $3,500 one puts in.

Sad thing are the testimonials by program converts who insist on the legitimacy of the program, the IRS regs that permit it, it not being MLM and the audacious point that the program participants are HELPING EACH OTHER
( profiled around some twisted benevolence theme). In march financial consultants that have swamied this new product offering.

My disillusionmant that this MI woman, who tells me she is a Christian, then turns around and justifies her participationand promotion of such an illegal scam.

Cash gifting programs that are grounded in no product or service but require recruiting many people in order for the financial rewards to be realized CANNOT SUCCEED FOR ALL THE PROGRAM PARTICIPANTS. The numbers becme geometric, and the people getting in at the bottom are sure losers.

STAY AWAY FROM TRUE WEALTH TODAY since you will get caught, return monies collected, be responsible for fines and penalties and potential criminal prosecution for your involvement and promotion of this scam.

It was revolting hearing the hundreds of people getting whipped up into a program feeding frenzie on the conference calls - these people are not going to know what truck hit them when this scam unwinds

I think gifting is mis-leading people, but I don't think there is anything wrong with it. An MLM is pretty much gifting only with some lame product that no one really wants anyway. So they way I figure it, you might as well skip the lame part and get right down to it. I mean it can't work for everyone, but if you wanna go for it, go for it

Wealthworks · #3 03-06-2005, 06:48 PM

Hi my friend I'm here to tell you of a program that really works. The site is ffui.com. My name is Barry Phoenix ref.#144 This company is serious I make thousands$$$ weekly I make copies of my checks, all of them. Just check it out. You will never forget me.

Citizen32 · #4 03-30-2005, 02:23 PM

So they way I figure it, you might as well skip the lame part and get right down to it. I mean it can't work for everyone, but if you wanna go for it, go for it.

No.

What you are doing is participating in a PONZI, pure and simple. Ponzis are illegal, and to participate in one under the guise of "Christianity" is to make a mockery of that faith.

Citizen32 · #5 03-30-2005, 02:26 PM

The pyramid structure doesn't exist in T.W.T. There is no base
and it's a level playing field for all who joins, regardless of what
level or when they joined. A person who joins T.W.T. today has
the exact same potential as the person who joined 2 years ago.

Rubbish.

By definition the folks who join today will have FEWER potential referals than those who "joined 2 years ago"--there is not an infinite number of people living on this planet, nor will this "program" fly under the radar of the authorities for long. Further, someone who joins a year from today will EVEN FEWER potential referals--again, the population of the planet is not infinite.

Typical shuck and jive from a *ponzi* promoter.

Citizen32 · #6 03-31-2005, 05:32 AM

"tigercity" wishes to confuse the issue by comparing the *ponzi* he's promoting with a legitimate business enterprise. For all of their shortfalls, Amway and its ilk at least conduct legitimate trade in identifiable products. ON THE OTHER HAND, "TWT" is merely a ponzi disguised as a "gifting program".

Sharper minds will realize that the government isn't so easily fooled, even if thousands of desperate and greedy Americans are. The law can't be be beaten simply by *renaming* an illegal scheme from "ponzi" to "gifting".

Citizen32 · #7 03-31-2005, 07:09 AM

You're lack of intelligence is clear because you even go so far as to bash Amway... which is a $6 billion dollar company. You've been wronged by other programs in the past and you've got a thorn in your side about it.

Now you're being downright silly. I didn't "bash Amway"--instead I pointed out that THEY move a legitimate portfolio of products. TWT, in contrast, is a PONZI that moves *no* product. No matter what you might wish to call this, labelling a ponzi a "gifting program" doesn't change the underlying fact that its *illegal* and mathmatically unsupportable.

Citizen32 · #8 03-31-2005, 08:39 AM

Liar. "Rich" folks don't feel the need to promote ponzis.

Citizen32 · #9 03-31-2005, 12:03 PM

1) You don't know me so making assumptions about who I am
is the first sign of stupidity.

You are promoting a ponzi, and pretending its a "gift program". That is not an assumption--that is a fact.

2) I'm not hiding behind a forum screen name. I openly
and proudly display a WORKING phone number.
Your *legal* name is "tigercity"? Further, your "working phone number" is provided to induce others to join your ponzi. As such, there is no honor in that.

3) If you truly want to help others, start by helping yourself.

You have it backwards--those that help others FIRST find that in doing so, they are helping themself. (And no, promoting a *ponzi* does not constitute helping others--you are defrauding them, whether knowingly or unknowingly).

Citizen32 · #10 03-31-2005, 01:05 PM

I refuse to waste anymore of my valuable time debating this issue with you.
From this point forward you can call True Wealth Today anything you want... pyramid, scam, scheme, rip-off and your personal favorite, "ponzi". It's not going to phase me, my lifestyle, my income and most importantly my attitude one measly bit. I will move forward being positive and wealthy while you're stuck being negative and broke.

Run away. Meanwhile, I'll continue to call them as I see them.

sbrandt · #11 04-01-2005, 03:50 AM

delusional people like this TigerCity PUTZ are beyond amusing, because they ACTUALLY believe the stupidity they are espousing/.

To suggest this True Wealth Today is anything but a ruse is nothing short of pathetic, AND IGNORANT - as the underlying scheme is PONZI, whether it is pictured as a pyramid or a one-legged, two-upped, three-sided etc, etc, etc silly managerie. I muse over the creative terms these scammers come up with (almost daily) to propose their sham as the "one of a kind/never before seen" tryst it, in fact, really is.

And these "Jim Jones wannabee" TWT-ers seem to relish in the fantasy that getting rich with this scam is tantamount to justification that this charade is legal. Their pompous arrogance will be slapped off their face when the authorities (IRS, FTC, USPO, Attny General and FCC) impose sanctions and civil penalties that will see their fat bank accounts relinquished to the coffers of the institutions that will be criminally prosecuting them.

What these dweeb, miscreant TWT-ers don't GET is that when posters inform them that what they are doing is wrong in the forum of public media (as the Internet IS) then this, from a legal vantage point, is considered PUBLIC NOTICE. In much the same way as a citizens arrest is considered a legal right, so it the notice given (by members of the public) to scammers that what they are doing is against the public good - as anyone with a 2nd grade aptitude will realize that the Math behind this ruse will simple NOT benefit EVERYONE EQUALLY .

The stupidity of this brain-dead scab TigerCity is abundantly clear when one realizes that this malcontent is playing TWT devotees like a harp; the harsh reality is that anyone sucked into the web of misguided jive this Putz character stands for runs the risk, innocently or otherwise, of being enjoined in the biggest class action they will ever know. Then under what rock will this parasite TigerCity disappear under.

Folks, use your friggin heads - do the math!!! Read the regs - participation in scams like this one IS ILLEGAL, and misguided confederates like this TigerCity dweeb will disappear like an icecube In the Sahara when the heat gets turned on. DO YOU WANT THAT EXPOSURE? Want to risk facing criminal charges for participating in a scam that gets you a fleeting "moment in the sun"?

People who confuse gaining wealth (by whatever means) are also confused on whee the line is drawn between right and wrong - EVEN AFTER BEING TOLD. The word for this is: STUPIDITY, and TigerPity is a perfect example of someone in DENIAL

The person who introduced me to this sham told me she is Catholic and has a number of kids......this is very, very scary - besides being extremely sad, AS THEIR MINDS ARE GETTING DIRECTION/VALUES FROM THIS MISGUIDED CONVERT...and indicative of some of the DELUSIONAL wackos we have in this great country of ours

Inquisitive1 · #12 04-02-2005, 08:23 AM

Since TigerCity is saying the EXACT SAME THING in this thread as he said in the other one... I'll bring over my intelligent, fact based post also. And to Tigercity I'll say - Be wary of your fellow T.W.T. members, and those who you are inviting to 'pay up'. You don't know which one of them (or ones of them) are actually conducting covert operations for an investigative agency....

YES - BELIEVERS AND SUPPORTERS OF T.W.T. ARE IN DENIAL!!

[B]True Wealth Today is a "mock" gifting program.[/b] The gifting laws were not created to allow total strangers to endlessly gift other total strangers ad infinitum and avoid all taxation. Do you really think the IRS is going to sit idly by as it misses out on a such huge chunks of money landing in people's hands? These people are not earning via the 'regular system' since they 'earn' so much through their 'gifts' and they are not paying taxes. So the IRS is losing out!! So is Social Security, so are other tax supported organizations. NO THEY WON'T SIT BY AND DO NOTHING!! Not for long!!! Laws are being proposed, written, drafted, discussed, some even voted on right now (as you continue to gift) to close up the holes that allow these type of "gifting programs" to squeak through under the 'guise of legality'.

The flat "everybody wins" - one up structure is only there to beat the pyramid gifting laws - which are already in place. Not to be kind. Don't fool yourself. I have done my due dilligence. Your T.W.T. VERY LIKELY already contains moles within your organization carefully taking notes on how the operation occurs and is conducted. (T.W.T. members are completely non-discriminate in who they invite to calls, and who they sign up underneath them! Just get them in at any cost!!) Any observations will be used to help create the laws which will bring them to the side of illegality. All those who are involved at that time will go to jail, at the very least be charged. All your "investments" will be lost and many, many people hurt.

2 and a half years is not a good thing for a group such as this. It makes me nervous. It's been running far too long for something bordering on the very precipitice of illegality. It will be pushed off the edge soon. One day you WILL wake up and find the very program that squeaked through as "legal" when you went to bed is now very illegal - and the law will be knocking! The only question is, when?

Think, honestly, search deep into your soul, and with the knowledge of the greed of the IRS and the justice system's love of 'making examples' - do you really truly believe that T.W.T. and other programs like it are not already under covert investigation? T.W.T. is defining itself as a group that 'gifts eachother' - they can't show up with *****ful lobbyists in Washington to protect their right to exist, now can they? That would be in essence saying they were a lot more than just a "charming group of people helping people"!

If you do think that the safe haven in which T.W.T. currently finds protected space will continue to remain very much longer - you are deluding yourself. Again, the only question that remains... is when will the axe fall?

NOTE: T.W.T. uses very high sums you can offer up to 'join' the program. There are only 3 choices, $500, $1000, $2000 or a combo of any two or all three - and at $500 you lose out significantly if you really understand how the program works!! This is to encourage you to put in larger and larger amounts of money! Other one-ups use much lower sums. T.W.T. is using very brazen email campaigns and scouring Legit Employment boards, like MOnster and Career Builder to find and target potential 'joinees'. I've not run into any other one-up program being this brazen, they are much more covert and careful. This reeks of a desperation to me. They want to make sure to get in every last buck before it goes under. Maybe insiders and program originators already suspect something. If not, their carelessness is exposing their program to WAY TOO MANY - including the investigative agencies and their undercover operations.

Inquisitive1 · #13 04-02-2005, 08:28 AM

Tigercity, Citizen 32 and other T.W.T. members: Before you come back and counter what I say above about the carelessnes T.W.T. members are demonstrating in 'recruiting' new lines of gifters - I will add:

I have within the past week, received THREE emails from THREE different individuals requesting I call a phone number (given in email) to learn how to generate or earn $1000 to $2500 per day! The emails were sent to a LONG LIST of names (shown in the body of the email in addition to the header) and obviously alphabetically. Readers were invited to call the number given and leave their name and phone number for return contact. Calls were always returned, callees always invited to participate and listen to a call.

T.W.T. members are being advised and encouraged to pay (per lead $$) for and utilize lead selling organizations to 'locate' their targets. T.W.T. members pull email addresses off resumes from legitimate Job Boards.

T.W.T. members know NOTHING about the people they invite to their recruiting calls, nothing. And virtually nothing about those they take "gifts" from and sign up to their organization in their 'lineage'.
I participated in a 25 minute call and was invited by two other individuals to participate in others.

-NO ONE knew who I was, asked me anything.-

PERMISSIBILITY OF THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR is NOT the intention of ANY GIFTING LAW currently in existence.

BOTTOM LINE: NONE of them could affirmatively say that I was not conducting a covert undercover operation into their organization!

SEE YOU IN COURT!!! :p

Citizen32 · #14 04-04-2005, 05:17 AM

Inquisitive1: You failed to read my previous posts if you think I'm a TWT member.

Further, your posts miss on a couple of important points. TWT is ALREADY an illegal ponzi--the 1-1 ratio in no way negates that. Further, calling it a "gifting program" in no way "skirts" the laws against ponzis. The rest of your points may indeed be correct, but don't for a moment believe that anything about TWT's structure will in any way protect it from prosecution.

Have a good day.

sojustask · #15 04-08-2005, 01:18 AM

I never could understand the reasoning beyond greed why anyone would get in one of these programs. They make absolutely no sense whatever, but then I guess those who get involved don't practice using any sense or they wouldn't be involved in the first place. LOL.

On the realm of stuffing envelopes and making $10.00 a pop. You run ads that others can make this kind of money, to find out, send $10.00 to a post office box. You get back a letter with instructions on how you do what was done to you. Very illegal, just like gifting programs.

Inquisitive1 · #16 04-08-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citizen32

Inquisitive1: You failed to read my previous posts if you think I'm a TWT member.

Further, your posts miss on a couple of important points. TWT is ALREADY an illegal ponzi--the 1-1 ratio in no way negates that. Further, calling it a "gifting program" in no way "skirts" the laws against ponzis. The rest of your points may indeed be correct, but don't for a moment believe that anything about TWT's structure will in any way protect it from prosecution.

Have a good day.

I apologize! You are correct! :o I unfortunately did lump you in with the TWT members and supporters. I did read your posts, but being late at night, and very tired, I incorrectly recalled what "side" you were on. :eek: Again, my sincerest apologies. You obviously have a mind, whereas others did not demonstrate much evidence of one.

Everything you say here and in your prior posts in this thread is correct.

gogi · #17 04-10-2005, 08:09 PM

this is a joke this scam

Amigable · #18 04-14-2005, 09:38 AM

:confused: What is T.W.T ??? Because some companies that sound like that have being contacting me The name is Liberty League International and the other one is Eventis. Yeap they both sound like it and offer about the same for the amount.

govirgil · #19 04-15-2005, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wealthworks

Hi my friend I'm here to tell you of a program that really works. The site is ffui.com. My name is Barry Phoenix ref.#144 This company is serious I make thousands$$$ weekly I make copies of my checks, all of them. Just check it out. You will never forget me.

To prove it does work can we see proof such as a bank statement thanks?

:)

annabay · #20 05-29-2005, 12:10 PM

True wealth is not for everyone, it is great for the right mindset, the problem is most people who join will never make any money, there are people who bring in tons of people and these people never get qualified.....Why because only 1% of the people in usa will do gifting for 3500. most people are not risk takers , they make a few calls and get alot of no's and they give up , also you have to believe you can receive this much cash , so if you join true wealth be prepared to make alot of phone calls and alot of people who go to the calls don't call you back ,but some do, it is a numbers game and a belief system that makes this work.

annabay · #21 05-29-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amigable

:confused: What is T.W.T ??? Because some companies that sound like that have being contacting me The name is Liberty League International and the other one is Eventis. Yeap they both sound like it and offer about the same for the amount.

Liberty League is a gifting with a knowlege product that they claim will chane your life, I have a friend that said they are not that great.
The way it works you join for I think 1500. and you recieve your tapes and they have seminars that go to 5.000 so every time some one goes to another level you get a commision from people you brought in.they been around a while

Eventis is real estate product or training that you can get in for 600. and high is 5000. The problem with these programs is the average person does not have this kind of money.You really have to buy leads with people that have money.

annabay · #22 05-29-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amigable

:confused: What is T.W.T ??? Because some companies that sound like that have being contacting me The name is Liberty League International and the other one is Eventis. Yeap they both sound like it and offer about the same for the amount.

I been contacted by all of them

TWT is a 1up gifting which requires you to give a one time gift of 500,1000.or 2000 or all 3 all independent of each other .
You than make phone calls direct than to a phone call, no selling no explaining.... when they sign up you give up your first one , it goes to your inviter now you are qualified to recieve 100% of cash...this is what I heared

Liberty League is a gifting with a knowlege product that they claim will chane your life, I have a friend that said they are not that great.
The way it works you join for I think 1500. and you recieve your tapes and they have seminars that go to 5.000 so every time some one goes to another level you get a commision from people you brought in.they been around a while

Eventis is real estate product or training that you can get in for 600. and high is 5000. The problem with these programs is the average person does not have this kind of money.You really have to buy leads with people that have money.

Amigable · #23 05-30-2005, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annabay

I been contacted by all of them

TWT is a 1up gifting which requires you to give a one time gift of 500,1000.or 2000 or all 3 all independent of each other .
You than make phone calls direct than to a phone call, no selling no explaining.... when they sign up you give up your first one , it goes to your inviter now you are qualified to recieve 100% of cash...this is what I heared

Liberty League is a gifting with a knowlege product that they claim will chane your life, I have a friend that said they are not that great.
The way it works you join for I think 1500. and you recieve your tapes and they have seminars that go to 5.000 so every time some one goes to another level you get a commision from people you brought in.they been around a while

Eventis is real estate product or training that you can get in for 600. and high is 5000. The problem with these programs is the average person does not have this kind of money.You really have to buy leads with people that have money.

Thank you so much for that information ANNABAY.

Mike Jolley · #24 06-12-2005, 05:51 PM

I wrote about True Wealth Today on my site on 5/15/05. Of course scam.com was onto it before then. Sorry I missed out. Lately I've noticed a surge in the number of websites promoting them. I posted a list of everyone I can find associated with TWT here (I wish I could find more): http://www.onlinehonesty.com/blackli...yramid_Schemes

There are also some URLs left over from old search engine indexing that TWT apparently thinks you have to log in to see :)

My original article is at http://www.onlinehonesty.com/20050515.html. It's based on an actual conference call I listened to.

Have fun continuing to destroy the reputations of these and similar scum with all my blessings.

Thanks,

Mike Jolley
www.OnlineHonesty.com

jcasey · #25 06-15-2005, 10:57 AM

Does anyone have any contact info for the actual organization, true wealth today? Like an address, phone #? Are they also a non profit?

I am doing some research for a friend.

JC

Mike Jolley · #26 06-15-2005, 06:32 PM

They're not actually any kind of organization, just a website and a bunch of people making phone calls. The only way I know of to find out who's at the top is through their hosting company or their whois protection service.

Bronxrep22 · #27 06-19-2005, 08:45 PM

For many performing due diligence I commend you as your efforts, qualifies an intelligent individual who has a true intention to change their lives.

What I want to do is clean the air as to what LLI is and what it is not.
I promise the posting to be resourceful, and void of hype. As I believe that if money, get rich quick, and greed is your disposition. God will see your failure, and no opportunity including LLI can help you.

First I want to address this all so overlooked fact.

LLI is not a pyramid scheme, It is a Direct Sales Organization.
But for those who do not know the difference and insist that LLI is a pyramid scheme. Take a look at this. The information you see below is a company organization chart. Draw it out, with ONE CEO, followed by TWO Sr. VP's all the way to the bottom. What you will find is a pyramid, and chances are you are employed by one.

1 President/CEO - 13 % shareholder stake
2 Sr.VPs - 7 % shareholder stake (split)
3 Executive managers - "" 4.5% (split)
4 Middle Managers - "" 2.3 % (split)
5 Supervisors - "" 1.1 % (split)
6 Frontline workers - "" .03 % stake (split)

The guy on top makes the most of your efforts, Correct, YES !
Business as it's innate nature will always be a Pyramid. Think

Manufacture Companies sell to
Multiple Distributors, whom than sell to
Hundreds of Retail Outlets.

also another pyramid

It is now easy to see how pyramid models can be confused with pyramid schemes. However you must know that pyramid schemes involve no product,
A regulations in commerce stipulate that good business must have a service or product rendered, for there to be any monetary exchange.

Secondly,

I want to talk about the product. This is everyone's favorite question.
"Can I really sell the product ?"
Self help and wellness products are a 13 billion dollar industry. However, the "Beyond Freedom 90 Home Study Course" crosses many industry thresholds. At its cross-section it would include, e-commerce information, a 48 Billion dollar industry, and Educational and Professional Development Services Industry a 102 billion dollar industry. There is no shortage of money nor products that can enter each niche market.

In sum for those who do not care for the numbers. The product is in fact PROFITABLE

Thirdly,

I want to set the record straight for individuals who think that this business is a walk in the park. There is WORK involved, diligente WORK, this requires you spending much time training, and working with your sponsor, from start to finish.

We require our distributors to take our opportunity seriously, hence the $1,500.00 entrance cost. Which not only includes the Beyond Freedom Home Study Course, but many man hours, first class training and marketing resources from professionals who work with you with your success in mind.

Consider the 1,500.00 dollars. A commitment to yourself and us in making this opportunity work as it will. Only, and only if you are infact ambitious, a go-getter and truly willing to be held accountable to yourself.

To put this into perspective

Try getting approved for a small business loan with no money down, Won't Happen.

The bank will assess their risk and your commitment. What is your commitment well, well, well, MONEY. The bank must see that you are commited to your ingenious business venture, and then and only then will they consider approving you.

So in sum commitment matters as it is priceless

For those who qualify our opportunity as a get rich quick scheme, you will be dissapointed and I hope discouraged to look any further into this posting and ultimately our opportunity.

When we say we want serious individuals we mean it. If a get rich scheme is what you want I beg you to stay up until 3 am and buy one of those 49.99 "Internet Treasure Chests", and maybe if you move to jupiter you can become a millionair literally OVERNIGHT.

Finally,

I want to talk about moral and ethics, concepts that many individuals outside of Liberty League International ever get to see.

One of the founding principles of Liberty League International and the Beyond Freedom Program is "Giving Back" - sharing wealth and prosperity to those requiring assistance. LLI associates embody the essence of community, generosity, and compassion. Since the founding of Liberty League International, associates have chosen to donate their time and financial resources generously to various causes.

Our most recent include Mercy Corps International, and Bill Phillips with "Make a wish Foundation"

As for myself, what is ever more em*****ing than the Beyond Freedom Package, the commisions, and financial security, Is being able to give back to a personal cause.

My day of liberation, was when I was able to donate to the "American School For The Deaf. " This is something I would not have been able to do just over 14 months ago. I certainly thank God in seeing through my selfless nature, that allowed me to make the decison to join, and make this opportunity work.

For those performing their due diligence I hope this posting to be very informative to you. As a life changing decision should not be taken lightly, nor should it be immersed in hype.

There is so much that I can go over, but to do so I would need a publisher and editor.

In this short-comming, I will make myself available to anyone who seeks answers to their questions. You may feel free to call me in my home office. As I will take the time undivided to speak you and help you, to make an educated decision, and figure out if this is the right opportunity for you.

Gabriel Osorio
860-523-5687
www.profiteks.com

P.S. for those still looking, may God answer your prayers.
.

Mike Jolley · #28 06-20-2005, 09:28 PM

I can't believe you're not all convinced yet that TWT is illegal. A group of people who suck in new members and their money without providing any actual service is the definition of a Ponzi scheme. The only way this would be a service is if this was an investment club, but it's not. It's a self-described charitable giving group. The problem with this "charity" is that the poor give to the rich. Pretty messed up, don't you think?

A disproportionate amount of space on my site is devoted to shutting this damn thing down. Visit OnlineHonesty.com and search for True Wealth Today to find out how much I hate these people. I've even made a list of all the people I can find who are associated with the group, to tell my readers who to avoid and to aid in the inevitable prosecutions. Look at my list to see what kind of other sleazy projects these people are involved with.

mr_bmw01 · #29 06-28-2005, 04:29 AM

Ok so lets try this again. To reply to the message regarding TW and there ponzi scheme, my question to you is this. Do you fully understand what a ponzi scheme is? If not here is basically what a ponzi scheme is in a nutshell which i copied and pasted here......

terms "pyramid scheme" and "Ponzi scheme" are used almost interchangeably. However, the scheme for which Charles Ponzi is most remembered was not a pyramid.

If you aren't aware of the story of Ponzi, you'll likely find it familiar. This man promised to double your money in 90 days, and he kept his promise -- until the day he was arrested for fraud. He had created such a personal mystique that he continued to receive money from new investors while in prison.

How could someone with so many satisfied customers end up in prison? Because fraud is fraud no matter the results. Ponzi claimed to be investing peoples' money and giving them the proceeds. What he was actually doing was giving peoples' money to people who had previously "invested" in order to make it seem like everything was OK. Meanwhile, he was living a lavish lifestyle while he was millions of dollars in debt.

He had no trouble getting the ever-increasing numbers of opportunity-seekers necessary to fund his business. He probably would have kept it up for many years if the government hadn't stepped in. Therefore, the lessons learned by those who wished (and wish) to follow in Ponzi's footsteps are...

Hide the money trail better.
Improve the illusion of selling a real product or service.
Don't promise anything.
It's very difficult to prove that a chain letter originated with a certain person. Many pyramid schemes are organized in such a way as to conceal who is at the top. If there is an actual product or service being sold, it's difficult to prove that the main purpose of being in an organization is to recruit others (and their money). Finally, hype it up, but don't get too specific. You can't get sued for disappointing someone.

Are these the lessons that should be learned from Ponzi? No. If Ponzi was good at anything it was lying. A lesser con artist trying to do what he did would have been run out of town long before millionaire mode set in.

True wealth doesn't promise you anything, they dont promise to double your money, invest it or anything. This isn't a pyramid either because once a person comes in they have the ability to make more money then there sponsor. This is a gifting program which the person giving the money gives the full 100% of the amount to his/her sponsor. This is no different then giving money to your neighbor, your church etc...............Same principal..........

Mike Jolley · #30 06-30-2005, 02:53 AM

Dear mr_bmw01,

I don't mind you reposting my article, just give me credit for writing it. Better yet, link to it directly. http://www.onlinehonesty.com/20050622.html

Your related post on my forum correctly mentions that I wrote this. However, in both cases it's good practice to use the BBCode "quote" feature to distinguish the author's words from your own. People might be mislead into thinking that I wrote this part:

Quote:

True wealth doesn't promise you anything, they dont promise to double your money, invest it or anything. This isn't a pyramid either because once a person comes in they have the ability to make more money then there sponsor. This is a gifting program which the person giving the money gives the full 100% of the amount to his/her sponsor. This is no different then giving money to your neighbor, your church etc...............Same principal..........

This is actually the opposite of my experience with TWT. They made lots of promises to me, including doubling my money. Fortunately I didn't believe them.

mr_bmw01 · #31 07-01-2005, 02:40 AM

Hey Mike,

Sorry about that. I wasn't trying to give people the wrong impression that i wrote the article. Now have you actually done the True wealth program by any chance????? Im not in it but was checking it out.

Mike Jolley · #32 07-01-2005, 10:24 PM

Thank you for correcting yourself and being a responsible person.

No, I will not join True Wealth Today, because I need not investigate their scam any further. If someone has a new scam they'd like me to investigate, please contact me.

mr_bmw01 · #33 07-05-2005, 02:38 AM

So why would you come on here and make it your life to bash another company you have no experience with????????? As Goes with everyone on here......Why?

dr poormouth · #34 07-05-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_bmw01

So why would you come on here and make it your life to bash another company you have no experience with????????? As Goes with everyone on here......Why?

I think you have this site confused with Existensialism101.com, but thank you for raising the intellectual tone of the discourse on this board.

Mike Jolley · #35 07-06-2005, 12:36 AM

BMW, you're still under the impression that TWT is a company. They are not. The only way to find out who started the thing is to get RegisterFly.com to crack open their whois protection. Even then there's no guarantee that the information being protected isn't fake.

Also, I do have experience with them. I listened to one of their sales calls and looked at their Web site. The two don't match. One is a business opportunity, the other a charity. Why would a charity even call themselves True Wealth Today? Charities tend to get money from the general public to give to people who need the money.

Is there a way this all makes sense other than it being a scam? I can think of one. Say it's just some random money-shuffling game not intended to cause the game's initiator to get most of the money. Ok, now it's not a chain letter. It's just gambling. It's still not a business.

higgjay · #36 07-20-2005, 03:37 PM

I was just contacted today by a "gentleman" from what he termed as "a private organization", when I asked what company he was with. He admitted he had no product to sell, and sent me to a conference call, which I identified within 5 minutes as one of these Ponzi-type schemes.

When he called me back, and I told him I didn't think is was legitimate, he actually got really snippy, (not the best sales tactic, when you are trying to suck $3500 out of someone!). He said of COURSE it's legal, they've been around for years, and there was nothing wrong with it. Being in MLM for as long as I have, I know full well that if you have no product to sell, and you are taking money from people, it isn't legitimate.

What is really scary, is that many people don't know what a Ponzi is, and are easily sucked in. When I asked to see his website so I could check his "business" out, I was informed that only the people who sign up can access the site, there being no advertising "storefront" site available for potential suckers. For the record, the only name he gave for his group was "thepoppen.com" , which of course, when I went to it, didn't exist. And don't try "poppen.com", either, unless you're fond of German porn, cuz that's what that sight is about. Hmmm, I thought the Germans would be a little more inventive with their porn, but it's the same old stuff. But I digress...anyway...has anyone else heard of this particular scam?

govirgil · #37 07-21-2005, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wealthworks

Hi my friend I'm here to tell you of a program that really works. The site is ffui.com. My name is Barry Phoenix ref.#144 This company is serious I make thousands$$$ weekly I make copies of my checks, all of them. Just check it out. You will never forget me.

But of course this really Barry works as you don't tell us much details of the company, are they selling anything if anything, how long you been in it etc etc etc

And with a graphic program copies of things can be change to look good.

:rolleyes:

govirgil · #38 07-21-2005, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sim-X

I think gifting is mis-leading people, but I don't think there is anything wrong with it. An MLM is pretty much gifting only with some lame product that no one really wants anyway. So they way I figure it, you might as well skip the lame part and get right down to it. I mean it can't work for everyone, but if you wanna go for it, go for it

So scamming people where these people are handing over money to join a bogus program where other people are doing the same is okay

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Which I guess you could say is like paying taxes

;)

govirgil · #39 07-21-2005, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_bmw01

So why would you come on here and make it your life to bash another company you have no experience with????????? As Goes with everyone on here......Why?

So why anyone want to come and try to sell a program that anyone can see is a scam for example Barry mentioned a program.

But he didn't say who the company was, what they sell, how long has he been in it etc etc

And I rather check out the company program before I have experience in it because common sense would tell you once you experience it you could end up not only loosing money but be charge with a crime.

auntchel · #40 08-10-2005, 09:34 PM

okay, I have to admit that I fell for the TWT thing and got in for $500. NOW I decide to check it out after not being able to get in touch with my inviter....I know, I know, if it sounds too good.....But to the point, do I have any recourse to get out of it with some hope of getting my $ back???

sojustask · #41 08-11-2005, 07:01 PM

Gifting programs are considered illegal in this country. That should be enough reason to stay away from them.

Pretty good thread concerning gifting: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=3777

Namaste'

Lady Mod

GrandCherokee · #42 08-11-2005, 08:20 PM

You shouldn't stay away from gifting programs just because someone considers them to be illegal. What does "considered illegal" really mean anyway? Does it mean that you're going to be arrested? Are the cops going to come knocking on your door at 1 AM and haul you away because you're affiliated with a gifting program? You and tens of thousands of others! One has a better chance of being struck by lightning during a Michigan snowstorm in January.

Promoted correctly, without fraud or missrepresentation, gifting programs
operate quietly and effectively for years. Its when a bad apple or two
get greedy and start saying/doing things that cause a whole activity to suffer. (Your reference to Elite Activity is valid here)

I'll always be involved in gifting programs. They're a great way to
take care of the todays as well as the tomorrows.

sojustask · #43 08-12-2005, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandCherokee

Promoted correctly, without fraud or missrepresentation, gifting programs
operate quietly and effectively for years. Its when a bad apple or two
get greedy and start saying/doing things that cause a whole activity to suffer. (Your reference to Elite Activity is valid here)

For the readers, could you please explain what you mean when you say a program that is promoted correctly and operates quietly? My take would be, one that is not slapped up on the Internet with software fees and such and putting emplasis on "inviting" would be one/two red flag(s).

Lady Mod

sojustask · #44 08-12-2005, 07:29 AM

Update:

The founder of Elite Activity, Harvey Docksdader was charged and indicted in Houston this morning, Aug. 12, 2005. Apparently, he's going to have to answer in Texas for this "Illegal Pyramid" scheme he started and promotes. The Attorney Generals are cracking down on these Gifting scams.

Lady Mod

hoaitrung · #45 08-13-2005, 03:17 AM

At last some one got him...Bravo...

CPA4 · #46 08-13-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandCherokee

You shouldn't stay away from gifting programs just because someone considers them to be illegal. What does "considered illegal" really mean anyway? Does it mean that you're going to be arrested? Are the cops going to come knocking on your door at 1 AM and haul you away because you're affiliated with a gifting program? You and tens of thousands of others! One has a better chance of being struck by lightning during a Michigan snowstorm in January.

Promoted correctly, without fraud or missrepresentation, gifting programs
operate quietly and effectively for years. Its when a bad apple or two
get greedy and start saying/doing things that cause a whole activity to suffer. (Your reference to Elite Activity is valid here)

I'll always be involved in gifting programs. They're a great way to
take care of the todays as well as the tomorrows.

Considered illegal? Does that mean that I should go rob a bank to get wealthy? I mean, I am not taking from poor pathic suckers, I am taking from a big ole bank. I mean, theif would be considered illegal, but according to this, I should do it anyway.

I guess of PT Barnum really forsaw the creation of the internet when he said there was a sucker born every minute. Amazing.

sojustask · #47 08-13-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPA4

Considered illegal? Does that mean that I should go rob a bank to get wealthy? I mean, I am not taking from poor pathic suckers, I am taking from a big ole bank. I mean, theif would be considered illegal, but according to this, I should do it anyway.

I guess of PT Barnum really forsaw the creation of the internet when he said there was a sucker born every minute. Amazing.

Well, just tell the bank teller it's a gift and the IRS will bless her. Use that "pressed down" "overflowing" bible scripture too, that will get to them.

LOL.

Lady Mod

GrandCherokee · #48 08-14-2005, 04:58 AM

CPA4s comparison between robbing a bank and being involved in
a gifting program is completely out of line. Robbing a bank is clearly
a violation of the law while gifting is merely "considered" to be a
violation of the law... in other words an "opinion" of.

Everyone has an opinion. You're more than welcome to express yours
as am I. Some will say gifting is a scam and doesn't work. Some
will say it does work if done correctly. Another will say I lost X amount
of money while another will say I just paid $12,000 for home renovations
with cash.

Gifting works for me. It works for the people I've brought into it.
Folks have been able to achieve great things through gifting.
Things they wouldn't have been able to have otherwise.

Do gifting programs shut down? Of course.. So do restuarants,
retail shops, gas stations, lawn care services, etc...all types.
For reasons as varied as the types of businesses involved.

I do realize my post here will bring a few comments. And thats
fine. As I said before, you're entitled to your opinion.

PS: And as a final note, please do be considerate as to whom
you're classifying as "poor pathic suckers". Not everyone in gifting
is down and out.

sojustask · #49 08-14-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandCherokee

Gifting works for me. It works for the people I've brought into it.
Folks have been able to achieve great things through gifting.
Things they wouldn't have been able to have otherwise.

Do gifting programs shut down? Of course.. So do restuarants,
retail shops, gas stations, lawn care services, etc...all types.
For reasons as varied as the types of businesses involved.

I do realize my post here will bring a few comments. And thats
fine. As I said before, you're entitled to your opinion.

I'm not into slapping down people just for stating their opinions. However, I did ask a couple of questions and I think you might have gotten sidetracked. First, let me say that personally, as long as "gifting" is not given approval from lawmakers, I'll consider it questionable if not illegal. But, I'm not here to judge what others may think or do.

But I would like you to please explain what a person should look for in a gifting program that is run ethically? What do you mean by promoted correctly and quietly?

If people want to do these things it's up to them, not me. But I would like them to at the very least have some insight to what to look for in these programs or groups or you know, what is considered the best and safest approach. Does that make sense?

And since you have been successful in them and you said there was a correct way of promotion, I think it stands to reason that you might be of more help to those interested than say someone from "Elite Activity" for instance. If you could give a couple of things for that folks can base their decisions on when they research these things to give them more insight, I would truly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Lady Mod

CPA4 · #50 08-14-2005, 03:05 PM

My personal opinion on "gifting programs."

If you go into it knowing that there is a chance your money will never been seen again, you know it is not to a qualified charitable organization, you know you will not be getting a tax deduction for it, AND you realize that it is a "voluntary" ponzi scheme, I say have at it.

I have no problem with people giving away money. I do find it somewhat odd that most who are interested in getting into them are looking for big returns on thier gifts. That would go against the principles of the program it would seem to me.

And, how do we know "know" that robbing a bank is illegal? Because someone says so? Why should that matter? Isn't that just someone's opinion?