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  #1  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:14 PM
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BoxAlarm126 BoxAlarm126 is offline
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Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

This article provides a revuttal to the pro MLM argument that most fail in MLM due to lack of effort, using MonaVie as an example:


http://www.juicescam.com/its-not-a-m...cal-certainty/

This is one company, but I do see certain parallels to many others.

And more from this anti one-24 article:

http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/one24-natraburst-scam/

"As you can see it doesn't take too many iterations before it reaches saturation. People already involved in pyramid schemes ignore this detail and suggest that there is no such thing as saturation. They ignore not only the math, but also the fact that few people are really looking to become distributors or salespeople for these products. These distributors erroneously claim that it due to lack of effort on the part of the distributors."

Yes, lack of effort definitely plays a part, but it's also relevant that it's mathematically possible for everyone to be profitable if people in the network are essentially the only ones buying the product. It's also relevant that you can reach saturation simply because there aren't enough people willing to become distributors to keep the system going, to allow those at the bottom to experience the same results as those at the top.


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  #2  
Old 09-23-2011, 07:54 PM
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Just because someone says that saturation occurs, doesnt mean that it does. I can assure you that 99% of the world's population have never even heard of those two companies.
That really was a pathetic ''rebuttal'' to the ''lack of effort excuse''
Must try harder.
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The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.



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  #3  
Old 09-24-2011, 06:07 AM
Bodhi Bodhi is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Just because someone says that saturation occurs, doesnt mean that it does. I can assure you that 99% of the world's population have never even heard of those two companies.
That really was a pathetic ''rebuttal'' to the ''lack of effort excuse''
Must try harder.
Don't you think you should have a more realistic view of the target demographic for MLM products? It certainly doesn't include 99% of the world population.

You seem to be stubbornly refusing to acknowledge a very simple point about mathematics. It's mathematically impossible to sustain one of these MLM schemes in a manner that does not involve losses for the vast majority of participants. It's really not that difficult a concept to grasp. It doesn't require that the world's population be exhausted before the scam collapses -- at any given time, the bottom level of participants (which always constitutes the largest proportion of distributors by far) will have to lose money in order for a small handful of people further up the line to profit.

And as long as people can get preferential placement in the tree, either by buying their way in or being given the position as a perq, then success is obviously not just a simple matter of effort. Furthermore, given the short lifespan of most MLMs, and the fact that they can unilaterally change the rules at anytime, means that one can work their butt off and receive no reward whatsoever.

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  #4  
Old 09-24-2011, 06:41 AM
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ohein56 ohein56 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post
Don't you think you should have a more realistic view of the target demographic for MLM products? It certainly doesn't include 99% of the world population.

You seem to be stubbornly refusing to acknowledge a very simple point about mathematics. It's mathematically impossible to sustain one of these MLM schemes in a manner that does not involve losses for the vast majority of participants. It's really not that difficult a concept to grasp. It doesn't require that the world's population be exhausted before the scam collapses -- at any given time, the bottom level of participants (which always constitutes the largest proportion of distributors by far) will have to lose money in order for a small handful of people further up the line to profit.

And as long as people can get preferential placement in the tree, either by buying their way in or being given the position as a perq, then success is obviously not just a simple matter of effort. Furthermore, given the short lifespan of most MLMs, and the fact that they can unilaterally change the rules at anytime, means that one can work their butt off and receive no reward whatsoever.
Yep, security is a myth no matter what company you work for nowadays...MLM or not.

Also, MLM/DS doesn't take place on a sheet of paper or a calculator. It takes place in the REAL WORLD. Big difference...PIOT...

Get out of your head for one minute and you'll come to a conclusion that makes some sense.
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  #5  
Old 09-24-2011, 07:45 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post
Don't you think you should have a more realistic view of the target demographic for MLM products? It certainly doesn't include 99% of the world population.

You seem to be stubbornly refusing to acknowledge a very simple point about mathematics. It's mathematically impossible to sustain one of these MLM schemes in a manner that does not involve losses for the vast majority of participants. It's really not that difficult a concept to grasp. It doesn't require that the world's population be exhausted before the scam collapses -- at any given time, the bottom level of participants (which always constitutes the largest proportion of distributors by far) will have to lose money in order for a small handful of people further up the line to profit.

And as long as people can get preferential placement in the tree, either by buying their way in or being given the position as a perq, then success is obviously not just a simple matter of effort. Furthermore, given the short lifespan of most MLMs, and the fact that they can unilaterally change the rules at anytime, means that one can work their butt off and receive no reward whatsoever.

Success in MLM would be mathematically impossible if the only reason people joined was to build a large downline. In real life, people join for different reasons, some as retail customers, some as wholesale customers, some just to cover their product purchases, some to make a hundred or so bucks a month, some 500 bucks a month, some a thousand, some 3 thousand, some 10 thousand. Its all these different goals that make it mathematically possible for MLM to work.
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The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #6  
Old 09-24-2011, 08:14 AM
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ForumUserX ForumUserX is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
Yep, security is a myth no matter what company you work for nowadays...MLM or not.

Also, MLM/DS doesn't take place on a sheet of paper or a calculator. It takes place in the REAL WORLD. Big difference...PIOT...

Get out of your head for one minute and you'll come to a conclusion that makes some sense.
Wait, so math has nothing to do with the real world? I guess that's why engineering works, huh. I guess all those NASA scientists were wasting their time when they studied math in college. And I guess wall street investment firms hired math majors out of charity. You know, since they're so generous with their money.

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  #7  
Old 09-24-2011, 08:22 AM
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post
Don't you think you should have a more realistic view of the target demographic for MLM products? It certainly doesn't include 99% of the world population.

You seem to be stubbornly refusing to acknowledge a very simple point about mathematics. It's mathematically impossible to sustain one of these MLM schemes in a manner that does not involve losses for the vast majority of participants. It's really not that difficult a concept to grasp. It doesn't require that the world's population be exhausted before the scam collapses -- at any given time, the bottom level of participants (which always constitutes the largest proportion of distributors by far) will have to lose money in order for a small handful of people further up the line to profit.

And as long as people can get preferential placement in the tree, either by buying their way in or being given the position as a perq, then success is obviously not just a simple matter of effort. Furthermore, given the short lifespan of most MLMs, and the fact that they can unilaterally change the rules at anytime, means that one can work their butt off and receive no reward whatsoever.
Not true of all MLM's. But yes, mathematically speaking, the more leverage an MLM offers, the worse things will look for that bottom rung. It could mean the difference between an MLM where you work hard and get into the top 20% to make a decent profit, or one where you have to know one of the owners to be in the top 0.1% to make bank.

Taken to its logical extreme, 0 leverage means you're a contracted salesperson in a non-MLM, while 100% leverage is a cash gifting scam. e.g. 100% leverage is where all money comes from "leveraging" the people you recruit, and none of it comes from actual sales. MLM is somewhere in between.


Last edited by ForumUserX : 09-24-2011 at 08:24 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-26-2011, 08:41 AM
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Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

In the case of Mona Vie, it had nothing to do with effort for several of their kingpins. They simply transferred their Amway downlines to the juice scam and instantly became diamonds.

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  #9  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:39 AM
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
In the case of Mona Vie, it had nothing to do with effort for several of their kingpins. They simply transferred their Amway downlines to the juice scam and instantly became diamonds.

But those kingpins had to start at the bottom when they first joined MLM, just like everyone else. The fact that everyone moved with them just shows the strength of the relationships those kingpins had with them.
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #10  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:41 AM
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Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
But those kingpins had to start at the bottom when they first joined MLM, just like everyone else. The fact that everyone moved with them just shows the strength of the relationships those kingpins had with them.
Jim Jones must have put forth a lot of effort to get a group so big as well?

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  #11  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:45 AM
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ohein56 ohein56 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
In the case of Mona Vie, it had nothing to do with effort for several of their kingpins. They simply transferred their Amway downlines to the juice scam and instantly became diamonds.
Yep, it does happen. Sometimes, sadly, 'they',(unethical distributors), use the result of that quick 'changeover' as an indication of how fast the business 'takes off' to use in their 'pitch'... not very duplicatable in other words, but 'they' sell it as if it is...that's BS.

Question(s) fer ya, how long do you think it'd take a 'kingpin' to build a business in MLM/DS stable enough to be able to even do something like that? Any idea?

Also, do people just start out in MLM/DS as 'kingpins'?

Doesn't everyone pretty much start in the same place in MLM/DS, at the entry level of the comp-plan, & work their way up to 'kingpin' status by building it from the 'bottom up??

That's what I've found to be true in DS/MLM at least...
__________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking.
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Armed neutrality makes it much easier to detect hypocrisy.
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BEWARE:Joecool44, aka 'joecool', anti-MLM fanatic, Trolls here anonymously!!
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  #12  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:46 AM
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ohein56 ohein56 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
But those kingpins had to start at the bottom when they first joined MLM, just like everyone else. The fact that everyone moved with them just shows the strength of the relationships those kingpins had with them.
Awwww dang!! ya beat me to it Chis..

I smell a conspiracy?!

__________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking.
― Benjamin Franklin
Armed neutrality makes it much easier to detect hypocrisy.
― Criss Jami
BEWARE:Joecool44, aka 'joecool', anti-MLM fanatic, Trolls here anonymously!!
Click Here!
Joecools ugliest LIE!...~"I'm not hiding my identity."
Some common sense Re:MLM/DS can be found, here...!! Click Here

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  #13  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:47 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Jim Jones must have put forth a lot of effort to get a group so big as well?

Dont know who he is, but if he has a big group he worked hard and clever (learnt the skills)
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #14  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:47 AM
ohein56's Avatar
ohein56 ohein56 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
But those kingpins had to start at the bottom when they first joined MLM, just like everyone else. The fact that everyone moved with them just shows the strength of the relationships those kingpins had with them.
Awwww dang!! duplicate post Re:'srver issues'...
__________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking.
― Benjamin Franklin
Armed neutrality makes it much easier to detect hypocrisy.
― Criss Jami
BEWARE:Joecool44, aka 'joecool', anti-MLM fanatic, Trolls here anonymously!!
Click Here!
Joecools ugliest LIE!...~"I'm not hiding my identity."
Some common sense Re:MLM/DS can be found, here...!! Click Here


Last edited by ohein56 : 09-26-2011 at 10:01 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:57 AM
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Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Dont know who he is, but if he has a big group he worked hard and clever (learnt the skills)
Google Jim Jones + Purple Kool Aid.

Some people can work and create large group but it's very hard to sustain because of the attrition in MLM. And there is high attrition because most people lose money or don't make enough where it's worthwhile.

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  #16  
Old 09-26-2011, 10:00 AM
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ohein56 ohein56 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Jim Jones must have put forth a lot of effort to get a group so big as well?
Yep, there's good leaders, & theirs BAD ones.

What's your point?
__________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking.
― Benjamin Franklin
Armed neutrality makes it much easier to detect hypocrisy.
― Criss Jami
BEWARE:Joecool44, aka 'joecool', anti-MLM fanatic, Trolls here anonymously!!
Click Here!
Joecools ugliest LIE!...~"I'm not hiding my identity."
Some common sense Re:MLM/DS can be found, here...!! Click Here

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  #17  
Old 09-26-2011, 10:04 AM
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Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
Yep, there's good leaders, & theirs BAD ones.

What's your point?
There's a LOT of bad ones in MLM. They give self serving advice.

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  #18  
Old 09-26-2011, 10:04 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Rebuttal to the "lack of effort" excuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Google Jim Jones + Purple Kool Aid.

Some people can work and create large group but it's very hard to sustain because of the attrition in MLM. And there is high attrition because most people lose money or don't make enough where it's worthwhile.
You build a sustainable group by helping people to get what they want out of joining, whether its as a customer, a part timer or a full timer/leader. If you try and build a group without helping people to be successful you will have constant turnover...not good.
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.


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