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  #55  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:15 AM
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needs2stop needs2stop is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Earnings prove nothing. MacDonald's employees are very low earners, as are many other jobs like cleaning for example. Does your earnings theory ''prove'' they're scams?



Where is this ''97% make no money'' documentation? And dont say ''Jon Taylor says so''.
I dont' even know who Jonathan Taylor Thomas is, but I always hear that 97% number being used to describe MLM failure rates. I believe it is an agreed upon industry standard. And even if it wasn't totally accurate, how much time would you spend splitting hairs over it Chris? What if it was 87% failure rate, would you believe it's a scam then?

Why is it that you just post all these knee-jerk reaction responses that even if I give you credit for it, it still doesn't really help your position. Do you even think about the point you are trying to make? What, were you suggesting that since we can't prove it's 97% failure, then maybe it's 100% success?!? You MLMr's are truly a piece of work.
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Last edited by needs2stop : 06-07-2011 at 07:20 AM.
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  #56  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:16 AM
calvinandhobbes calvinandhobbes is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Earnings prove nothing. MacDonald's employees are very low earners
yet they earn more than nearly every single MLMer.
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  #57  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:19 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by needs2stop View Post
I dont' even know who Jonathan Taylor Thomas is, but I always hear that 97% number being used to describe MLM failure rates. I believe it is an agreed upon industry standard. And even if it wasn't totally accurate, how much time would you spend splitting hairs over it Chris? What if it was 87% failure rate, would you believe it's a scam then?
Ahh, now we get to the truth.... you ''always hear'' so it must be true?!

Businesses will always have a high failure rate, especially those that cost a pittance to get into, because most people give up before they start. They have very little to lose.
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The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #58  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:20 AM
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ohein56 ohein56 is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsc8987 View Post
Reading both sides of an argument is the best way to come to the truth in my view. Did you even read the document I posted by Jon Taylor? He gets his figures by taking gross commissions and subtracting out autoships and minimum operating expenses.

Jon Taylor is biased. So is the pro-MLM crowd.
I am open to arguments of both sides.
Really?!

If you are open to "both" sides of the debate, spend a few days here...

www.marketwaveinc.com

Let us know what you think....
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BEWARE:Joecool44, aka 'joecool', anti-MLM fanatic, Trolls here anonymously!!
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  #59  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:24 AM
bsc8987 bsc8987 is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Chris you are being disingenuous when you outright dismiss Taylor without even having read anything he's written. Calling him biased is okay but then you link to leonard ******** who clearly has a pro-MLM bias.

At least Taylor derives his conclusions from various MLMs' income disclosure statements.

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  #60  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:27 AM
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ohein56 ohein56 is offline
The fly in your Anti-MLM ointment...
 
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvinandhobbes View Post
yet they earn more than nearly every single MLMer.
Interesting tell there, calvin...

Quote:
The narrower the mind, the broader the statement.
~ Ted Cook

The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity.
~ Andre Gide
How do you quantify statements like that, other than "Hey, what can I say, I'm an Anti-MLM bigot!"

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― Benjamin Franklin
Armed neutrality makes it much easier to detect hypocrisy.
― Criss Jami
BEWARE:Joecool44, aka 'joecool', anti-MLM fanatic, Trolls here anonymously!!
Click Here!
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  #61  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:29 AM
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needs2stop needs2stop is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

I recal reading Amways disclosure documents and stated that the average rep makes like $60/mo, not even net minus what they pay out. Just their average income.

Who hear would consider a job that pays you $60/mo an epic failure? You can make that much weaving baskets in Guatemala for pete's sake!
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  #62  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:29 AM
GeryD GeryD is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
nice link and disclaimer....
Quote:
These reports, analytical tools, and opinions are intended purely to communicate information in accordance with the right of free speech. They do not constitute legal or tax advice. Anyone seeking such advice should consult a competent professional
opinions only, free speech...
I believe the emphasis was supposed to be on the word "competent"
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  #63  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:30 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsc8987 View Post
Chris you are being disingenuous when you outright dismiss Taylor without even having read anything he's written. Calling him biased is okay but then you link to leonard ******** who clearly has a pro-MLM bias.

At least Taylor derives his conclusions from various MLMs' income disclosure statements.
I've read plenty of what Taylor writes, most of it is biased rubbish in my opinion. More than once I've given you two links from MarketWave, why dont you read them. While Len is definitely pro-MLM, he will call a spade a spade and if there is something wrong within MLM he has no problem calling it.
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The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.



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  #64  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:31 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by needs2stop View Post
I recal reading Amways disclosure documents and stated that the average rep makes like $60/mo, not even net minus what they pay out. Just their average income.

Who hear would consider a job that pays you $60/mo an epic failure? You can make that much weaving baskets in Guatemala for pete's sake!

Do you know what the ''average'' distributor actually does? Tell us....
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #65  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:31 AM
James R's Avatar
James R James R is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
And I'll tell you again (after Gery told you, cant you read?), there is no link to numbers who fail or dont fail, they dont exist. I'm not the one who is claiming that a certain number fail or dont fail, YOU ARE! So, the ball is in your court. YOU prove the numbers you are claiming. Earnings figures dont show whether or not someone has failed. If someone's goal was to get their products for free, but have no interest in earning any income then if they achieve that they will not be a failure, but they will still be in your mythical 99% failure figure.
DO YOU GET IT NOW?
Yep, I get it now!

Jon Taylor has produced the most researched and accurate data so far.

You and your fellow mlm colleagues have provided absolutely NOTHING except theories based on personal opinions.

None of you have even provided data from YOUR OWN company to prove that your scheme is doing better than the 99% failure rate.

Therefore, the 99% failure rate is the most accurate data produced so far.

So if somebody asks me, I will answer "The failure rate in mlm pyramid schemes is 99%....don't waste your time"
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Here's a good one....
"That's why I changed my 'story'".
Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?

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  #66  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:58 AM
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needs2stop needs2stop is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Only an MLM'r would try to tell you that a statistic is just some number that can't be verified, even if it came directly from the horses mouth.

My old mentor used to say "Pyramids are just the things shaped like triangles in Egypt, right?" That was his rebuttal when people asked if the MLM was a pyramid scheme. They'll say anything, no matter how non-sensical.

And why would a MLM affiliate or rep ever acknowledge their abysmal failure rate? Whether in that particular MLM or the industry in general? It'd be like a car salesman admitting that the cars on his lot don't run. Of course they are going to lie, they have to.
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  #67  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:15 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by James R View Post
Yep, I get it now!

Jon Taylor has produced the most researched and accurate data so far.
Sorry, couldnt get past that line. I cracked up!
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #68  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:28 AM
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needs2stop needs2stop is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
Absolutely no one.

And no one is working Amway full time for $60 a month.

You guys should read what you write.
Dude, that came right off their own documentation they gave to their prospects. But I have a feeling you aren't really a linear thinker. It's kind of hard to follow the fact that if a bunch of people make no money, and a few make a lot, then the "average" income would be $60/mo when you total all the gross income and divide it by the number of reps.

Again, finance vs. business.
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  #69  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:55 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by needs2stop View Post
Dude, that came right off their own documentation they gave to their prospects. But I have a feeling you aren't really a linear thinker. It's kind of hard to follow the fact that if a bunch of people make no money, and a few make a lot, then the "average" income would be $60/mo when you total all the gross income and divide it by the number of reps.

Again, finance vs. business.

I dont think you read it properly. What Will is saying is, even though people may be earning $60 a month, they are not putting in full time hours to earn it......they are only working a few hours a month. Maybe thats all they want to do, maybe not, but as we've been trying to tell you, knowing how much someone is earning doesnt tell us about the goals they have. If someone's goal is to earn $60 a month, then they're successful.
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #70  
Old 06-07-2011, 10:09 AM
Scam_Advocates Scam_Advocates is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Another poster who doesnt understand the meaning of ''success''. Success is different for everyone, your idea of it might be totally different to mine or the lady you were posting about above.
If the person is in the US, and working part time (over 10-20 hours/week), then being unable to hit $50k for three years should be considered a failure.
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  #71  
Old 06-07-2011, 10:18 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scam_Advocates View Post
If the person is in the US, and working part time (over 10-20 hours/week), then being unable to hit $50k for three years should be considered a failure.
Not if that person wanted to earn $50k over 3 years. If they achieved it, they were successful. Did anyone bother to ask the person, or was it enough to read the numbers on their own? I think the latter.

Part time as regards MLM, btw, can be anything upwards of a couple of hours a week.
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #72  
Old 06-07-2011, 10:41 AM
Scam_Advocates Scam_Advocates is offline
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Re: Take the test to see if you're MLM is a scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
With 27% of our seniors not having $1,000 in the bank...and 43% not having 10k in the bank...living off of fixed incomes...they are working at McDonalds and Walmart to supplement.

I would think there would be many people that would like a some time job, dictating their own hours and efforts earning $16-$32 per hour....(your numbers not mine).

And that is a failure to you? To them it would be a godsend.
Did you miss the part where I said "unable to hit $50k for three years"?
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