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  #37  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:30 AM
GeryD GeryD is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by needs2stop View Post
Hah! The FIRST thing they taught me in my MLM was what to say when rebutted by prospects.

Me: "What if the prospect asks: Is this an MLM?"

Mentor: "Just tell them to trust you and be there!"

Well the answer to that question is nothing but a simple "Yes". Right off the bat they are teaching you to lie, deflect, obfuscate, and mislead.
Another example of poor leadership.

My reply, I hear that a lot and it's an interesting question why do you ask?

Hear their reason. What if they were actually looking or one and MLM'er gave them a song and dance. Blown opportunity.

Otherwise they have an objection they either will or won't share it... "I can seen where that would be a concern. I've heard a lot of bad situations in some companies over the years. Yes this is what's called MLM or Network Marketing. Are you open to spending a few minutes to share the details of that experience and to see if you think my business presents that same possibility? If it does then obviously it won't be for you and that's OK. If you aren't that's OK too. I appreciate you being right up front with me so that I didn't waste your time.

How hard is that to teach someone to say?
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  #38  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:48 AM
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needs2stop needs2stop is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeryD View Post
Another example of poor leadership.

My reply, I hear that a lot and it's an interesting question why do you ask?

Hear their reason. What if they were actually looking or one and MLM'er gave them a song and dance. Blown opportunity.

Otherwise they have an objection they either will or won't share it... "I can seen where that would be a concern. I've heard a lot of bad situations in some companies over the years. Yes this is what's called MLM or Network Marketing. Are you open to spending a few minutes to share the details of that experience and to see if you think my business presents that same possibility? If it does then obviously it won't be for you and that's OK. If you aren't that's OK too. I appreciate you being right up front with me so that I didn't waste your time.

How hard is that to teach someone to say?
You are doing what he would do to me. You say, "No, no, no, don't say THAT! Say THIS instead! It's MUCH better!"

But the reality is that they never come running with their checkbooks in hand, no matter what BS you say to them.

EVERYONE was like "Is this a sales thing, no thanks." The more I even tried to talk about it or explain or rebutt, the worse it would be. ACN even acknowledges this fact, and as a company discourages reps from giving their prospects any information before the meetings. And why not you may ask? Because the people will just ask MORE questions, and say more negative things. Not to mention they'll come straight to google as soon as you say it's for ACN, and then it's all over at that point.

The only way I even got anyone to come was to either ambush them, or tell them to just do me a favor as a friend so I could appease the guy I was working with (my mentor). I told them I didn't care if they came or not, and they didn't have to buy anything, but I was just trying not to look bad in front of my mentor and needed people to show. Despicable behavior, yes. But I had no choice. It was either that or just simply have nobody show.
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Last edited by needs2stop : 06-02-2011 at 11:51 AM.
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  #39  
Old 06-02-2011, 01:19 PM
James R's Avatar
James R James R is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeryD View Post
Another example of poor leadership.
Another excuse. It's ALWAYS, "My scheme is different"

Not according to the recent videos your colleague C. Doyle led me to. Man, they point another picture altogether.

And that's probably the understatement of the century.
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Here's a good one....
"That's why I changed my 'story'".
Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?



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  #40  
Old 06-02-2011, 04:08 PM
GeryD GeryD is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by needs2stop View Post
You are doing what he would do to me. You say, "No, no, no, don't say THAT! Say THIS instead! It's MUCH better!"

But the reality is that they never come running with their checkbooks in hand, no matter what BS you say to them.
Your complaint was the alleged mentor told you to lie. I'm telling you it was the worst possible thing to do. Note how I began with the words "My reply", not the words "Do this" I gave you an example of what I do and what I teach people. It isn't the Holy Grail, it's an example of promoting in a professional manner with the prospects interests placed before your own.

It works and it's part of the root system we use. I don't care what words you use and what order they come in. We can work around what you want to use and polish it to improve your results. I don't care if you find something else to use or make up your own, just don't lie to get someone to a meeting.

Rarely does anyone come running up check book in hand for anything but a fire sale, but if you do get a check and they find out you lied to them (and they will sooner or later) it will be the last check you ever see from them.
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  #41  
Old 06-02-2011, 04:30 PM
GeryD GeryD is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by James R View Post
Another excuse. It's ALWAYS, "My scheme is different"

Not according to the recent videos your colleague C. Doyle led me to. Man, they point another picture altogether.

And that's probably the understatement of the century.
Another excuse? Excuse for what. My system is certainly different than his worthless mentor who basically told him to lie, just get them to a meeting. Are you suggesting he just needs a better lie rather than finding a different system. How many people will you do business with there in your town once you found out they lied to you to get it?

Here's a couple other news flashes for you, James. I don't live over here like most of you amateur sleuths and the name on the Vitamark checks in front of me for the last two weeks don't say Chris Doyle on them and I don't remember that name on the others I've taken to the bank that they accepted so I'm pretty sure I'm not working with or am Chris Doyle so I haven't a clue what videos he led you to.
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Last edited by GeryD : 06-02-2011 at 06:22 PM.
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  #42  
Old 06-02-2011, 04:54 PM
cruisin_man cruisin_man is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeryD View Post

Here's a couple other news flashes for you, James. I don't live over here like most of you amateur sleuths and the name on the Vitamark checks in front of me for the last two weeks don't say Chris Doyle on them and I don't remember that name on the others I've taken to the bank that they accepted so I'm pretty sure I'm not Chris Doyle and I haven't a clue what videos he led you to.
LOL ! GD has been called plenty of things b4 - but, never Chris Doyle.

Too Funny . . .
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  #43  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:29 AM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Just for info, I didnt ''lead'' JamesR to any videos, he is so obsessed with me and Vitamark that he spends his entire life studying Vitamark websites and videos and then posting about them on here. Very sad.
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The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #44  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:50 AM
James R's Avatar
James R James R is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Just for info, I didnt ''lead'' JamesR to any videos, he is so obsessed with me and Vitamark that he spends his entire life studying Vitamark websites and videos and then posting about them on here. Very sad.
Oh yes you did!

YOU brought of the subject of fantasy dreaming so naturally I put "Vitamark dreaming" together to see if I could find like-minded individuals.

I hit the jackpot...Google "Vitamark dreaming" and see what pops up.

Those videos are pretty reavealing! Do you have any Kum Bah Yah Vitavids you performed in to share with us?
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Here's a good one....
"That's why I changed my 'story'".
Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?

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  #45  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:59 AM
Once Upon a Time Once Upon a Time is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Just for info, I didnt ''lead'' JamesR to any videos, he is so obsessed with me and Vitamark that he spends his entire life studying Vitamark websites and videos and then posting about them on here. Very sad.
You didn't lead anyone anywhere, yet you include the links on every one of your posts.

Hmmm. Only a slight scam I suppose?

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  #46  
Old 06-05-2011, 11:55 AM
ohein56's Avatar
ohein56 ohein56 is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by char View Post
If you really want to understand how it works and the inherent problems well hidden within mlms you must read this.
Yeah yeah...blah blah blah....

Interesting signature line there char...

Quote:
If MLM is such a wonderful business model, why aren't you doing Amway?
question...Toyota's are supposed to be a really wonderful automobile, why aren't we ALL driving Toyota's then, huh!?

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Armed neutrality makes it much easier to detect hypocrisy.
― Criss Jami
BEWARE:Joecool44, aka 'joecool', anti-MLM fanatic, Trolls here anonymously!!
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  #47  
Old 06-05-2011, 12:25 PM
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char char is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
Yeah yeah...blah blah blah....

Interesting signature line there char...



question...Toyota's are supposed to be a really wonderful automobile, why aren't we ALL driving Toyota's then, huh!?

Thanks for that, I'll change it to "still doing Amway" as most older MLMers have probably tried them once.
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If MLM is such a wonderful business model, why aren't you still doing Amway?



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  #48  
Old 06-05-2011, 01:07 PM
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sojustask sojustask is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by KZ_23 View Post
My question now is, how can anyone on the bottom make any profit if the people above them are making commission off of every sale? Wouldn't the only person making any real money be the guy on the very top? Thanks for the help.
Commissions are not the same percentage all the way down. There is a breaking point where the person stops making money at a level below his/hers.

They might market infinite downlines but you don't make profit off them unless one of those downlines is so robust with sales that by sheer volume it increases enough percentages earned back up the line that you will make a profit.

Reality is, there is no person at the bottom of any line unless a person stops selling. At which point they don't make a profit at all. Get out.

Reality also is, that in MLM, there are far more downlines that die a quick death from lack of activity than there are those that are robust and growing.

It takes as much work, many times more, to build profitable downlines as it does just to have profitable personal sales.

Ugh, I hated building downlines. Too much babysitting and strategy involved to keep them profitable. I always preferred direct sales where the only thing I needed was a good commission and a product I could sell.


Lady Mod

.
__________________
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When an honest man/woman who is mistaken learns the truth, at that exact moment, he/she ceases to be mistaken or he/she ceases to be honest.

When we are unable to find tranquility within ourselves, it is useless to
seek it elsewhere.
---= Francois de La Rochefoucauld

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  #49  
Old 06-05-2011, 01:10 PM
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sojustask sojustask is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by char View Post
Thanks for that, I'll change it to "still doing Amway" as most older MLMers have probably tried them once.

The "Older" MLMers probably retired off Amway.


I believe what we have on this forum are more like "middle age/new age" MLMers. The old ones, ones who are profitable and have downlines to teach and sales to make, don't usually hang out on chat forums.


Lady Mod

.
__________________
.
When an honest man/woman who is mistaken learns the truth, at that exact moment, he/she ceases to be mistaken or he/she ceases to be honest.

When we are unable to find tranquility within ourselves, it is useless to
seek it elsewhere.
---= Francois de La Rochefoucauld

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  #50  
Old 06-05-2011, 10:45 PM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Some fair points there sojustask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sojustask View Post
Commissions are not the same percentage all the way down. There is a breaking point where the person stops making money at a level below his/hers.

They might market infinite downlines but you don't make profit off them unless one of those downlines is so robust with sales that by sheer volume it increases enough percentages earned back up the line that you will make a profit.
No such thing as paying to infinity, it would be impossible as the company would end up paying more than they have coming in and very soon go out of business. You will find that ''infinity bonuses'' usually stop at the next person downline of an equal rank/pin level.

Quote:
Reality is, there is no person at the bottom of any line unless a person stops selling. At which point they don't make a profit at all. Get out.
The people at the lowest levels are 1)those that have just joined; 2) those that have given up; and 3)those that are not interested in building a downline, but just use and/or sell product. Every company has many distributors with no downline, but carry on using the products with no expectation of earning anything. And its perfectly feasible to earn money from only selling the product and not building a downline.


Quote:
It takes as much work, many times more, to build profitable downlines as it does just to have profitable personal sales.
Depends which way you look at it. It may well take more initial work, but build it correctly, with leaders who dont need babysitting, and you will eventually earn residual income. If you are purely selling on your own, when you stop selling you will earn nothing (not entirely true, because with consumable products, a set number of customers will hopefully buy every month and will only have to be ''sold to'' once.)

Quote:
Ugh, I hated building downlines. Too much babysitting and strategy involved to keep them profitable. I always preferred direct sales where the only thing I needed was a good commission and a product I could sell.


Lady Mod

.
See my statement above.
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #51  
Old 06-05-2011, 10:49 PM
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ChrisDoyle ChrisDoyle is offline
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by sojustask View Post
The "Older" MLMers probably retired off Amway.


I believe what we have on this forum are more like "middle age/new age" MLMers. The old ones, ones who are profitable and have downlines to teach and sales to make, don't usually hang out on chat forums.


Lady Mod

.
Not entirely true. I know quite a few high earning distributors who regularly post on chat forums, a few on here, quite a few on mlm.com and quite a few on other forums such as wahm.com. Of course the biggest ''chat forum'' of all is Facebook and you'll find many high earning distributors on there.......its a brilliant place for making connections actually, as I have found. The internet makes MLM much easier (from a connection point of view) than it used to be when the main way of connecting with people was the phone.
__________________
The musings of joecool44:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Thise links basically had comments that looks like it waas written by Amway IBO's.
About 10 minutes later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44
Learn to read you fvcking moron. I never claimed those pages were from IBO's.
And he admits to changing people's posts!
Quote:
By the way, I only change links when people make personal (unsubstantiated) attacks on me. I find it works quite effectively when I employ that tactic.

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  #52  
Old 06-06-2011, 01:22 AM
James R's Avatar
James R James R is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Not entirely true. I know quite a few high earning distributors who regularly post on chat forums, a few on here, quite a few on mlm.com and quite a few on other forums such as wahm.com.
Just a "few" here and there? Is that it?

According to you, with millions upon millions of mlm'ers around the world and exploding growth on a minute by minute basis...

Shouldn't you be able to easily find a couple hundred or so to participate in the discussion? (O.K I get it, they don't have time because they are all out there raking in the mlm cash instead. Got it!).

I don't know where all of these "high earners" are hiding but nobody, and I mean nobody will come close to 10,000 posts/ads in a single forum.

Good job Doyle. Long Live MLM!!!
__________________
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Don't be another "$50 a bottle" sucker....best of all you know exaclty what's in it. Click HERE.


Here's a good one....
"That's why I changed my 'story'".
Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?

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  #53  
Old 06-06-2011, 08:39 AM
ohein56's Avatar
ohein56 ohein56 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by char View Post
Thanks for that, I'll change it to "still doing Amway" as most older MLMers have probably tried them once.
Question: did you run out and get married to the first person you ever went out on a date with?

Think....
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― Benjamin Franklin
Armed neutrality makes it much easier to detect hypocrisy.
― Criss Jami
BEWARE:Joecool44, aka 'joecool', anti-MLM fanatic, Trolls here anonymously!!
Click Here!
Joecools ugliest LIE!...~"I'm not hiding my identity."
Some common sense Re:MLM/DS can be found, here...!! Click Here

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  #54  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:09 AM
Once Upon a Time Once Upon a Time is offline
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Posts: 4,652
Re: Need Help Understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
Not entirely true. I know quite a few high earning distributors who regularly post on chat forums, a few on here, quite a few on mlm.com and quite a few on other forums such as wahm.com. Of course the biggest ''chat forum'' of all is Facebook and you'll find many high earning distributors on there.......its a brilliant place for making connections actually, as I have found. The internet makes MLM much easier (from a connection point of view) than it used to be when the main way of connecting with people was the phone.
Selling to the bottom of the 'downline', who you know will not make money, is essentially stealing from people.

How does this make MLM in any way ethical?


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