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Old 06-04-2006, 08:50 PM
ladyemily's Avatar
ladyemily ladyemily is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 87
Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

what do you think?

I got this in an e-mail. sounds like a scam to me.

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Old 06-04-2006, 11:33 PM
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borisf96 borisf96 is offline
Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,156
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

from who compiles the whole cases on different "gurus"


Robert G. Allen (San Diego, CA) —I do not recommend
Author of best-selling books Nothing Down, Creating Wealth, and The Challenge. One-time seminar guru and founder of many Robert Allen Nothing Down clubs around the U.S. Allen’s advice is generally terrible. Although I did like a chapter he wrote on property-wanted ads. Otherwise, he is little more than a financial publicity stunt man.

My book How to Buy Real Estate for Little or No Money Down photographically reproduces documents from his famous “Send me to any city” nothing-down deals. The L.A. Times accepted his “challenge” and made him do them in San Francisco which is near where I live. I went there and got all the documents on each of the seven deals. Some were also done in the county where I live.

On one, which was apparently typical, the documents seem to show that Allen lied to the first-mortgage lender—Bank of America—about whether there was any secondary financing (there was—a seller mortgage) and about his intention to occupy the San Francisco condo as his principal residence (He lived in Provo, UT at the time and never occupied the SF unit). At that time, June, 1981, when home mortgage interest rates were at 18%, Bank of America would only make loans to owner occupants and prohibited all secondary financing. I have their loan policy for the date in question in the book, too. My wife was a loan officer for Bank of America at the time. [Note to bogus gurus: do not brag about deals that you do not want me to look into—especially in the San Francisco area. John T. Reed].

At best, you would have negative cash flow following his books. At worst, you would go bankrupt and wind up in jail. He doesn’t put it this way, but his nothing-down techniques almost all require you to mislead an institutional lender or take advantage of an unsophisticated seller or both. The president of his Atlanta Robert Allen Nothing Down Club literally went to federal prison (at Eglin AFB, FL) for doing illegal nothing-down deals. There is virtually nothing in his material about how to make a profit. Rather he simply assumes that real estate goes up so much every year that you need only buy it to cash in. Click here for a little story about his association with probate guru Jim Banks.

Allen himself got into financial difficulty with the IRS as early as 1984. In 1986, IRS filed a $346,395.79 lien against Allen. In September of 1987, when I wrote an article exposing his financial difficulties, he also had:

another $65,649.90 IRS lien
more than $76,000 of delinquent tax warrants filed by the State of Utah
lawsuits and judgments regarding over $100,000 in unpaid fees to fellow gurus who spoke at his meetings
Allen declared Chapter 7 (total liquidation used when the bankrupt has a negative net worth) bankruptcy in San Diego on July 10, 1996 (Bankruptcy Petition #96-09323-LA). Bankruptcy creditors sometimes get pennies or nickels on the dollar. According toAllen’s bankruptcy papers, his creditors got nothing. The Initial Meeting of Creditors was held on August 9, 1996. A lawyer tells me that Allen would have been asked quesitons under oath about his assets during that meeting. A copy of the transcript of that meeting would be interesting. It would typically be in the case folder. See my 8/96 article.

The Allen’s attorney, Richard V. Vermazen, got $2,000 to handle their bankruptcy according to court papers. The Allen’s were discharged from their debts on 10/17/96. The case was closed with no distribution to the creditors on 10/31/96.

The creditors who were stiffed in the bankruptcy file were:

• American Express Optima Card
• Bank of New York
• Citibank Visa
• Farmers InsuranceGroup (San Diego)
• Ferrette & Slater ALLC (San Diego)
• Franchise Tax Board (California income tax)
• Internal Revenue Service
• John Graff (Highland, UT)
• Mark IV Properties (San Diego)
• McKay, Burton, Thurman (Salt Lake City)
• Neiman Marcus
• Nordstrom
• Robinson-May
• Saks
• Scalley & Reading APC (Salt Lake City)
• Scott Meredith Agency (New York city)
• Shirl and Gail Loveless (Provo, UT)
• Simon & Schuster (New York City)
• The Broadway (Phoenix)

The Allens may have had other creditors. These were the only ones listed in the bankruptcy court files. Now that Allen is running full-page ads touting his financial skills in theTwenty-First Century, one wonders if he has gone back and paid these creditors like his fellow Provo guru Howard Ruff did after his post-bankruptcy financial rebirth.

In what must have been a weak moment when I was interviewing him for the ’87 article, Allen told me I, “do a great job and that I keep guys like him honest.” I have it on tape (with his knowledge and permission). I won’t take credit for keeping him honest—or give anyone else credit for doing that.

I think Allen has an interesting story to tell. But it’s not the one he sells. He should speak about real estate investment the way a reformed alcoholic speaks about drinking. For cheaper , accurate information on real estate finance, see my book How to Use Leverage to Maximize Your Real Estate Investment Return, my High Leverage Real Estate Financing cassettes, and my newsletter articles on finance.

Later, he was sending out an e-mail soliciting customers for a business opportunity that has “nothing to do with real estate.” As far as I’m concerned, nothing he has ever done had anything to do with real estate. It was merely about making Bob Allen rich and famous. I am told that his former associate Marc Stephen Garrison once had a private conversation with Allen that went something like this.

Garrison: “I m concerned that our students are not using the real estate investment information we’re teaching them after the course is over.”
Allen: (wearily) “We’re not in the real estate investmet information business, Marc. This is show business.”

If you paid thousands of dollars for one or more of Allen’s courses, I hope you enjoyed the “show.” Although I suspect you could have gotten more entertainment at the hottest play or musical on Broadway for a lot less.

Click here to read an email from one of his seminar graduates.

On 9/4/02, a reader told me Allen was back to 65% real estate in his current seminar.

I also heard that Allen was telling people his bankruptcy was caused by an avalanche that destroyed an expensive home he and his wife were building. He tried to pawn that story off on me, too. Here are the details as I recall them. The avalanche occurred around February. But the IRS and the State of Utah had filed liens against him for non-payment of taxes months before the avalanche. Furthermore, I interviewed him by phone about all this and recorded the conversation with his approval.

I asked him what kind of real estate genius, as he was claiming to be at the time, would fail to insure his home. He said he did have insurance against the avalanche. “Did you file a claim?” “Yes.” “Did the insurance company pay it?” “Yes.” “So how did the avalanche cause your financial difficulties if it was fully insured?” He then mumbled something about a deductible. Gimme a break. At the time, he was claiming to be a multi-millionaire. Millionaires are not bankrupted by the deductible on their homeowners insurance. Plus there is still the pesky fact that he was in financial difficulty before the avalanche ever happened. And then there is the question of why he was building a mansion in the mountains when he was not paying his state and federal taxes like the rest of us.

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Old 06-06-2006, 12:57 AM
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E-source E-source is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 2
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

Also, the boast that he made over "$20,000 in less than 24hrs," in front of the media was in itself a David Copperfield move. No one knew what was going on behind the scenes. In one of his e-books, he actually explained the process. (which took arund 3 months to set up)

The people who ordered that day had been primed and were a part of his mailing list. He offered them severalconference/tutoring packages, one conference was held in an esclusive, exotic location. He went as far as giving them the choice to vote on the price of each package to create an air of confidence and sincerity. He then let them know about the media deal and asked for their help. He would only take those orders on that day...sort of like a one-day only sale, and the most expensive package was over $1000.

Once the cameras began rolling, he basically just went online with an email to his list that said to, COME AND GET IT!!!

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Old 08-07-2006, 10:58 PM
cubensis cubensis is offline
Skeptical Skeptic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 39
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

I have attended 3 of his so called :free workshops", and guess what? He never is at ANY of them! In the commercials they make it seem like he is going to be there talking to you and teaching, but I have yet to see the man. Basically it is a 1 hour commercial, they don't teach you anything. At the end its like "pay now" and if you don't have the funds, borrow them. and if you don't have any money GTFO, and you are a fool for not dropping that $5k plus.

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Old 08-07-2006, 11:40 PM
sickof sickof is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

Scam-run for your life. I lost $7000.00 to them.

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Old 08-08-2006, 12:06 AM
Doe3001 Doe3001 is offline
Silver Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 127
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

No, I heard of Pinocchio and Cinderella.
If it is not a scam is just an strategy to sell something useless. you will end up paying for something that you can read anywhere. That is ultimately a "legal scam".
How to make fun of a scammer

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Old 10-04-2007, 09:41 AM
cre1957 cre1957 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

I spent nearly $20,000 on his program and found out it was not what they had represented. I have disputed the charges on my credit card to get my money back. You may want to do the same

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Old 05-25-2009, 02:02 PM
islander71717 islander71717 is offline
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

I had signed up for their couching sessions. The coach they assigned to me could not remember anything from one week to another. He never answered any of my emails for assistance. It seemed he knows less than I do. Even though this couching was for making nothing down deals he kept telling me to write offers with 5-10% down. A fair amount of time during each session he talked about wanting to get back to his ranch. I finally got so frustrated I told him never to call me again.

Then they have the nerve to sick a collection agency after me for more money. Now I have bad records on my credit report for the next 7 years. My credit was near perfect before these crooks came into my life. These are the most despicable people I have ever encountered.

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Old 05-25-2009, 06:04 PM
trueonlinebiz trueonlinebiz is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

I only know him as an author of money making books.

I read one of them and that was more than enough to be sure that I will not be reading or paying for anything this guy offers.

Thankfully I got the book for free.

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Old 06-06-2009, 07:16 PM
pt49's Avatar
pt49 pt49 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oz
Posts: 6
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

Robert Allen is a scammer. An email spammer also... once you get on his list it is very difficult to get off it.

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Old 03-01-2010, 10:51 AM
rkngtr rkngtr is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 2
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

He's back again spamming a new instant wealth $9.95 scheme under the guise of a real testimonial, complete with "Wait!-Don't go away! Join Now" pop ups. Thanks for your warnings all!

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Old 05-07-2010, 04:11 AM
famous famous is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

I was sent a random email from Robert Allen. I have no idea how he got hold of my email. I assume he bought a mass list from somewhere. Anyway, in this email, he is promoting a product of his called Multiple Streams of Income which is a bunch of ebooks providing information on how to invest and grow your own personal wealth.

Upon visiting his site and reading the well structured sales page, I decided to take up a $1 trial for 7 days. As the buying process goes on, there is the typical upgrade offer of buying the full package for $10 less than the retail of $39.95. I just wanted the trial at the time. But in the confusion of the upsell page and wanting to reject the upsell, I got caught out accepting the full price discounted package at $29.95 and it immediately got charged to my card.

It took a few days to review the whole package and I realised that it would be of no use to me and isn't the sort of thing that I am interested in. Plus me being in another country, the information provided is primarily for U.S. residents. My country's laws won't let me benefit from any of the information I read.

I must note that this program has a 365 day money back guarantee. But to honor their guarantee, they say that you must provide full details and evidence of everything you have done over the course of a year to show that his methods didn't work for you. That is a massive task for anyone but he lists his guarantee big and bright on the sales page but you have to read the terms and conditions and understand the lengths you have to go to, to get your small original payment back.

I decided to cancel my trial and receive the refund of $29.95 which was deceivingly charged to me. Robert says to cancel the trial, I must ring their number between 9am and 6pm Monday to Friday and speak to a consultant personally. As I am in a completely different time zone, I could not make the call due to my own commitments and the fact that they don't operate on weekends.

I then notice that as soon as the 7 day trial was up, I was charged an extra $38.95 for the original whole price minus the $1 trial. So that is 3 seperate charges of $1, $29.95, and $38.95 unlawfully charged to me. I became quite upset with this and wrote a polite email to their customer service explaining the situation and requesting a full refund of the $29.95 and the $38.95. I didn't want the $1 as that was a fair charge for me to trial the product.

After 4 business days, my email went unanswered and ignored. I did not receive a refund.

Therefore, this can only conclude that this guy Robert Allen and his mob are a pack of greedy money sniping cheats. This guy is a scam artist.

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Old 05-12-2010, 05:56 AM
defudge1 defudge1 is offline
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

Hi there, yeah I got an e-mail from Robert Allen looking $29.95 for his book to make me a millionaire. I don't know how he got my e-mail address but I'd like to thank this site and the users for the great advice about him and other scammers. These people should all be put in one big room and riddled with a machine gun as its nothing more than robbing people who barely have enough to make ends meet and are dreaming off a better future

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Old 01-11-2011, 05:31 AM
Dcorumdebtor Dcorumdebtor is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?


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Old 01-17-2011, 12:58 PM
Dragonmyth Dragonmyth is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

If this is a Robert Allen program you should beware. This is not a trustable company. They will scam you today, tommorow, and if they can, they will scam you years from now. Want proof, here's my story.
I bought the no money down realestate system. When I did I asked many questions about the program, including if they had anything to offer those with experience in realestate sales. I was told they did. The program started as if I were a novice. I explained that I was not, but was told everone starts at the same level. This included going to the registar of deeds office, ect. All things any realtor would be very familiar with, which I am. I reviewed the proposed program and it would be months of this BS. All the time being charged monthly for the "tutoring".
I complained. I complained more. I was told that they are not pscychic, how could they know what I did and didn't know. Simple, I told them what I knew. I was treated rudely. I complained further up the chain, and was dismissed until I told them that all my conversations were recorded, including the original conversation where I was told they could accomadate an experience realtor, and of course the insulting and rude treatment I recieve from their reps. I recieved a full refund. Five years later they contacted me by mail claiming I owed them several thousand dollars, much more then I had pruchaced the program for. I explained that I had been given a refund and total cancelation of the program. They claimed to have no record of this. I would have to pay them. I sent them their cancelation agreement, along with a statement declaring that I had all conversations on tape as well as all email and mail contact. They did not respond, and have not contacted me again. Obviously they were hoping that I had not saved the cancelation agreemant, so that they could screw me. This is preditory behavior, they don't care who they hurt, they only want the money, by any means possible. So the lesson is this. Save all contact information, emails, etc. for anything that you deside to take part in. Then save it forever. Also never trust Robert Allen or anything he is invloved in.

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Old 01-17-2011, 01:06 PM
Dragonmyth Dragonmyth is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

One more thing. Robert Allen products are billed through, they are the ones who bill you and also the ones who contacted me FIVE YEARS after I had my contract with them canceled wanted me to pay them for their services. Remember they wanted THOUSANDS of DOLLARS from me that I did not owe.

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Old 02-03-2011, 02:38 PM
budd002 budd002 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2
Re: Anyone heard of Robert Allen?

I got a call from "Paul" tonight...45 minutes of my life I will never get back! I had to cut him short because I do need to feed my family. He had me go to the Prosper website and watch a 4 minute video as he sat on the phone and waited. Needless to say I lost interest about 30 seconds into the video and decided to Google Robert Allen instead, while I let the video audio play in the back ground of course, and came across this site.

I told him I had to go and make dinner and he said he would call me back tomorrow to finish our discussion. Now that I have this new information I can tell him where to stick his sales pitch.

Thanks everyone for posting.....

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