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  #19  
Old 05-04-2010, 11:56 AM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
Well if it doesn't equal nothing, what does it equal?

If you don't believe in a creator and you call God the creator, then what do you think is the cause of all things?

If you refuse to accept a cause, then you believe in nothing.
I think what you are trying to get them to say is they believe in the "big bang" Theory, that all the Universe and everything in it is a cosmic accident.

I, on the other hand, think that is more absurd than believing in creationism.
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:12 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
What is sad?
To state that without faith in something as outlandish as 'god', that your life would be without meaning, that is what is sad.

You know, I once asked a religionist, 'If you could choose, god or your life long partner, who would you choose'?

Guess who they opted for - yup, this invisible and elusive entity OVER a real person that loves them, and has stood by them.

I guess you wouldn't see that as sad either, right?
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:14 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by DoubleP View Post
I think what you are trying to get them to say is they believe in the "big bang" Theory, that all the Universe and everything in it is a cosmic accident.

I, on the other hand, think that is more absurd than believing in creationism.
This is simply because you do not have a proper understanding of the matter, to be honest. If you did, then you would not be making such naive statements.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:16 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
Your jealousy of people of faith amazes me. .

*Slaps head*

Oh Wil, that's it, you have tumbled me.

I am sooooo envious, I wish I believed that Eve was made out of the rib of Adam, and that there was a talking snake.

Oh, but yes, it is all allegories, not literal truth, and according to you, we are ALL gods.

Doesn't sound too mainstream, but, hey ho..
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:22 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
Okay, what is A, B and C.?

The simple logic is if you don't believe in a creator, then you must believe in nothing.

If you believe in nothing, then, you must explain how something came from nothing.

If that isn't clear, let me know and I'll give you a detailed explanation.
No, that's your logic. Which is flawed.

A non-belief in gawd is not a belief in nothing. It's a non-belief in a Deity.

"Something from nothing" is your belief, not mine. Your belief is that some mythical sky fairy created everything from "nothing".

Science believes, based on data, that the universe was formed from a Singularity.

Quote:
If that isn't clear, let me know and I'll give you a detailed explanation
Don't bother, because you obviously cannot.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:26 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by DoubleP View Post
I think what you are trying to get them to say is they believe in the "big bang" Theory, that all the Universe and everything in it is a cosmic accident.

I, on the other hand, think that is more absurd than believing in creationism.
That's because you don't have an understanding of the science or the data.
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:30 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
Your jealousy of people of faith amazes me. If you can't beat us, join us. But you'll probably continually.
Jealous of those who need the crutch of religion to give their life meaning?....Jealous of those who lack the intellectual honesty to critically think for themselves??...Jealous of those who hypocritically fail to apply the same level of scrutiny to their faith that they demand of science?

mmmmmmm.....nope. Check please.
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:59 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Yeah Well Fine Then

To state that without faith in something as outlandish as 'god', that your life would be without meaning, that is what is sad.

You know, I once asked a religionist, 'If you could choose, god or your life long partner, who would you choose'?

Guess who they opted for - yup, this invisible and elusive entity OVER a real person that loves them, and has stood by them.

I guess you wouldn't see that as sad either, right?
I'm not responsible for what others think.

I suppose hypothetically speaking, if you've been in the presence of God, you could never find a person or thing in the universe that could match that experience.

For me, I have a lovely wife and I've not been forced to chose between God and her because she also believes in God. I don't see a problem if your loved one shares your beliefs. If, however, I was forced to choose between a lovely woman who woshipped Satan and God, I would chose God.

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  #27  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:02 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
Quote:
Thistle

Not believing in a God, any God, yours or anyone elses, does not equal believing in nothing.
Well if it doesn't equal nothing, what does it equal?

If you don't believe in a creator and you call God the creator, then what do you think is the cause of all things?

If you refuse to accept a cause, then you believe in nothing.
Wow. OK, wait, this needs splitting up....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
If you don't believe in a creator
I dont .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
and you call God the creator
I dont .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
then what do you think is the cause of all things?
Good question. I don't know. Shock horror! I don't know. But I believe that the answers to questions such as what created the universe/galaxies/life etc involve natural processes, not supernatural intervention.

That is patently NOT "nothing". It is just a different "something" from your "something".

In my view natural processes and laws are more likely, as I have no reason or evidence or belief in the supernatural. I do however see more and more of the world around us, and the stars above us, being explained by science without the need for the supernatural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
If you refuse to accept a cause, then you believe in nothing.
No. Thats just silly, and quite insulting. Its certainly a fatuous assertion. I DO believe in a cause, a natural cause. You believe everything must have been brought into existence by a god, partly because life and the universe is beyond our scientific knowledge currently. But how and why the sun rises and sets used to be beyond our scientific knowledge, and now we know its not god doing it. Why on earth would I think god was behind the universe and life, just because we dont yet know the details? I DO believe ..... I believe we just dont know how the universe came about.

Experience shows us (well, me) that the unexplained always fall under god's purview ..... until science explains it. And then god's domain recedes further, to something even more unexplained.

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  #28  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:12 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

Quote:
LogicallyYours

No, that's your logic. Which is flawed.

A non-belief in gawd is not a belief in nothing. It's a non-belief in a Deity.

"Something from nothing" is your belief, not mine. Your belief is that some mythical sky fairy created everything from "nothing".

Science believes, based on data, that the universe was formed from a Singularity.



Don't bother, because you obviously cannot.
Okay, I'll accept that you have a non-belief in a deity. Well, that doesn't mean you don't believe in something.

I am assuming from your statement that you believe in science's theory of the universe.

Universe was formed from Singularity.

I also believe in a single event causing the universe. However, I go a step further. Based on your belief in science you should also go a step further. What caused singularity?
If you don't believe in a diety, then you must believe it came from nothing, in which case you believe in nothing. That's the logic of your position.

I believe the big bang was caused by God. If you believe in singularity, you must accept your responsibility as a believer in science to find a cause.

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  #29  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:24 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
Okay, I'll accept that you have a non-belief in a deity. Well, that doesn't mean you don't believe in something.

I am assuming from your statement that you believe in science's theory of the universe.

Universe was formed from Singularity.

I also believe in a single event causing the universe. However, I go a step further. Based on your belief in science you should also go a step further. What caused singularity?
If you don't believe in a diety, then you must believe it came from nothing, in which case you believe in nothing. That's the logic of your position.


I believe the big bang was caused by God. If you believe in singularity, you must accept your responsibility as a believer in science to find a cause.
Wrong again (see logical fallacy). Where is the proof that there are only two option in this equation?

I believe, rather, acknowledge the laws of the nature.

I don't know what caused the singularity but, even if a singularity was not possible, what proof would that be of gawd? (see logical fallacy)

Quote:
I believe the big bang was caused by God. If you believe in singularity, you must accept your responsibility as a believer in science to find a cause.
The difference between what acknowledge and what you believe is, there IS NO POSITIVE SUPPORTING EVIDENCE TO BACK YOU POSITION.

YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE BASED ON EMOTIONAL BLIND FAITH.


Here, let's do this. Remove Big Bang and Evolution from the equation.....they no longer exists...poof!...gone!

Now, post the evidence, data, or research that supports "goddidit".
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Last edited by LogicallyYours : 05-04-2010 at 02:27 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:32 PM
thistle thistle is offline
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
If you don't believe in a diety, then you must believe it came from nothing, in which case you believe in nothing. That's the logic of your position.
Your logic seems to be "my way", or "strawman".

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  #31  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:34 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
Oh yeah, mainstream belief is that Eve was made from a rib of Adam? Not as taught by Catholics which are what half of Christianity? I haven't said it is all allegories, surely all of Genesis and Revelation is, and much else is but not all.

And yes we are all G!ds, all creators, thoughts in mind appear in kind...and you don't believe in me, or yourself....
Hey, I think you will find that a really good % on here alone, would believe in a literal translation of the Bible.

Wouldn't your beliefs conflict of those with someone like HP, who, AFAIK, does believe in Genesis as a literal account, and please, how can you tell which parts are allegories, and which are not, and what USE is there in a book that is part allegory, partly not?

I also feel that your assertion that we are all 'gods' would be rejected by most strands of Christianity that I am aware of, including the RC Church, since you mention them.
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  #32  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:36 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
If, however, I was forced to choose between a lovely woman who woshipped Satan and God, I would chose God.

Excuse me, but WTF are you talking about?
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  #33  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:41 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

In defense of Cnance, he was referring to an earlier post. Having said that, I didn't see where a Satan-worshiping female was mentioned.
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  #34  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:46 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
Excuse me, but WTF are you talking about?
I was wondering, I must admit .... does anyone actually worship satan? I mean, actually worship? As opposed to just, you know ... digging the Stones?

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  #35  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:46 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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thistle

Your logic seems to be "my way", or "strawman
No, I don't think that's true. I enjoy a debate and I will, as you may have noticed, accept a logical argument.

It can't be my way. It must be the logical way. Anyway, I am not out to antagonize.

I think however I've discovered a kick in atheist armor.

Isn't faith in science a lot like faith in religion?

If you deny having faith and proclaim nothing to be true, isn't that tantamount to believing in nothing?

For an atheist, there should be no shame in believing in nothing. After all if there is no God, what's left?

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  #36  
Old 05-04-2010, 02:50 PM
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Re: Being without faith is nothingness

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Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
In defense of Cnance, he was referring to an earlier post. Having said that, I didn't see where a Satan-worshiping female was mentioned.
It wasn't.

However, in a world of make believe, what is adding an extra word or three?

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