report scams here at scam.com dont get scammed Scams and Scammers - Expose hypocrisy and spread respect ! Don't get ripped off! REGISTER
Go Back   scams > Scam Message Board > Government Scams
Register FAQ Register To Post Member List Promote Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-10-2010, 03:24 PM
TJefferson TJefferson is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 275
Social Security

I'm just sayin........... ;)


Reply With Quote

  #2  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:36 PM
mumbles's Avatar
mumbles mumbles is offline
Most Valued Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,803
Re: Social Security

yep. i am one of those being scammed. social security isn't enough to live on so old poor people will just have to keep working until they die. the age to start collecting is being pushed back, i think one month later for each year that goes by.

that wasn't the contract! they said if i paid in all my life, i would get some money paid back starting at 65. nobody male in my family has ever lived to be that old and few of the females. so we all got nothing for our money.

even with the later retirement dates, they say there won't be enough people paying in for anybody to get paid out. that problem is being ignored. just another multi-trillion deficit to add to the national debt. money will be entirely worthless if they print that much every year.

like this. your social security payment this month has been raised to $100,000 by our glorious leader! (cup of coffee costs $200,000)





Last edited by mumbles : 04-10-2010 at 06:46 PM.
Reply With Quote

  #3  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:34 PM
lexx's Avatar
lexx lexx is offline
Most Valued Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,939
Re: Social Security

it's like car insurance, dont have an accident and you get nothing back!? i dont hear you bitchin about car insurance!? easy to fix SS so it's solvent!? do your own research TJ!?
__________________
i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

Reply With Quote

  #4  
Old 04-11-2010, 04:23 AM
TJefferson TJefferson is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 275
Re: Social Security

Bernie Madoff was put in jail for a far less severe crime than what the Federal Government is doing to people in the name of Social Security.

Reply With Quote

  #5  
Old 04-11-2010, 05:17 AM
Barbie Zirconia Barbie Zirconia is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 554
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJefferson
Bernie Madoff was put in jail for a far less severe crime than what the Federal Government is doing to people in the name of Social Security.
Explain to us how people have lost all of their money because of Social Security.

Reply With Quote

  #6  
Old 04-11-2010, 08:07 AM
TJefferson TJefferson is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 275
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbie Zirconia View Post
Explain to us how people have lost all of their money because of Social Security.
Sure, that is very easy to do.

Every single person who had died before the age that benevolent governance has permitted them to have their money back.

They lost every single penny the Government took from them.

They lost the freedom to not only keep or spend their money, but they lost the liberty to invest it had they wanted.

They also lost the liberty to bequeath it to their loved ones, charities, or other institutions as they may have wanted.


So, I conclude just like Bernie Madoff needed new suckers so he could pay off the expecting old suckers, our Federal Government is in the exact same position.

It remains a bigger ponzi scam than anything he was guilty of.

Reply With Quote

  #7  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:10 PM
Barbie Zirconia Barbie Zirconia is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 554
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJefferson
Every single person who had died before the age that benevolent governance has permitted them to have their money back.

They lost every single penny the Government took from them.

They lost the freedom to not only keep or spend their money, but they lost the liberty to invest it had they wanted.

They also lost the liberty to bequeath it to their loved ones, charities, or other institutions as they may have wanted.
Social Security is not just a retirement program.

Have you ever heard of Survivors Benefits?

When my brother-in-law died, his family received Social Security benefits every month.

The money he put into Social Security was not wasted. It went to his family to support them.

If Social Security wasn't there, what would have happened to them? They would have been homeless. My sister is thankful that Social Security was there for her.

There is no connection between Social Security and Bernie Madoff. Are his victims going to receive benefits for the rest of their lives? How many of them are thankful for what he has done to them?

Reply With Quote

  #8  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:34 PM
TJefferson TJefferson is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 275
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbie Zirconia View Post
Social Security is not just a retirement program.

Have you ever heard of Survivors Benefits?

When my brother-in-law died, his family received Social Security benefits every month.

The money he put into Social Security was not wasted. It went to his family to support them.

If Social Security wasn't there, what would have happened to them? They would have been homeless. My sister is thankful that Social Security was there for her.

There is no connection between Social Security and Bernie Madoff. Are his victims going to receive benefits for the rest of their lives? How many of them are thankful for what he has done to them?

It's not a retirement program period.

And those "survivor benefits" are part of the scam. His family did not receive his money at all. They received someone elses money. His money was handed out the moment the government took it from him.

Had he invested the money government took from him, and then left it to his family via beneficiaries, in many cases they would have much more than the government is allowing them to receive.

I never said the Madoff scam was connected to the Social Security scam.

I said they are each similar ponzi scams with one dealing with exponentially larger sums of money.

If you are arguing that Social Security is a safety net for the stupid, weak or unfortunate of our society - then I will not dispute that point.

But the majority of us are being scammed out of money we will never get a fair return on.


Last edited by TJefferson : 04-11-2010 at 05:09 PM.
Reply With Quote

  #9  
Old 04-11-2010, 06:20 PM
lexx's Avatar
lexx lexx is offline
Most Valued Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,939
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJefferson View Post

If you are arguing that Social Security is a safety net for the stupid, weak or unfortunate of our society - then I will not dispute that point.

But the majority of us are being scammed out of money we will never get a fair return on.
please explain the relationship of those 2 remarks!?

and when did you ask for your car insurance money back!? it's a scam isn't it!? after all, YOU are a safe driver!? why should you PAY!?
__________________
i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

Reply With Quote

  #10  
Old 04-11-2010, 06:26 PM
lexx's Avatar
lexx lexx is offline
Most Valued Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,939
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJefferson View Post
It's not a retirement program period.


i agree with that now but i remember a time not too long ago when most everyone you talked too considered it so!? and i guess those that lived day to day on just enough to get by on or were drained by their offspring it became a retirement plan!?
__________________
i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

Reply With Quote

  #11  
Old 04-12-2010, 01:08 AM
Barbie Zirconia Barbie Zirconia is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 554
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJefferson
And those "survivor benefits" are part of the scam. His family did not receive his money at all. They received someone elses money. His money was handed out the moment the government took it from him.
Why would that be a scam?

Is my car insurance company keeping all the money that I've paid into it in a special account just for me? Is all of my money there?

Is my health insurance company doing the same thing?

No, they've already spent my money. They have to pay employees, shareholders, and cover claims filed by other people.

Why should Social Security be any different?

If Social Security is a scam, then those businesses must be scams, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJefferson
Had he invested the money government took from him, and then left it to his family via beneficiaries, in many cases they would have much more than the government is allowing them to receive.
How would you know that?

Your hypothetical situation is based upon three important factors:

1.) That if Social Security didn't exist, my brother-in-law would have saved that money instead of spending it.

2.) If he did save that money, he would have wisely invested it and not lost it, like so many other people have.

3.) And if he did wisely invest his money, his rate of return would have been more than what my sister has received in Survivors Benefits from Social Security.

But that would not have happened.

Real life is far more complex than the fantasy world you're living in.


Last edited by Barbie Zirconia : 04-12-2010 at 02:58 AM.
Reply With Quote

  #12  
Old 04-12-2010, 04:20 AM
TJefferson TJefferson is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 275
Re: Social Security

The rate of return on SS is around a whopping 1%.

How much money is your family "collecting" that they never put in?

It comes from somebody.

You advocate the Robin Hood model, of forcefully stealing from those who have, and giving it to those who don't and/or can't. You are arguing I should be held accountable and forced to give to the uneducated who have never learned the proper way to handle their money. Thats fine. But it doesn't make it less of a scam.

Keep in mind the system is imploding because it is not fiscally solvent, and will have to have either have taxes raised (steal more from those who have); or benefits cut (give less to those who don't); and or tinker with the age with which benevolent governance determine you are entitled to "your money".

Much like Bernie Madoff's scam, this one too is unsustainable.

We haven't even mentioned the fraud and abuse in "system".


I don't understand why people on this board like to mention Auto Insurance so frequently in a wide range of topics, which is a free market system. Plenty of people succeed in America without it, and it is not forced upon anyone.


http://www.heritage.org/Research/Rep...Rate-of-Return


What can Americans expect in future Social Security retirement benefits? A Heritage Foundation study reveals that the Social Security system's rate of return for most Americans will be vastly inferior to what they could expect from placing their payroll taxes in even the most conservative private investments. For the low-income African-American male age 38 or younger, the news is particularly grim: He is likely to pay more into the Social Security system than he can ever expect to receive in benefits after inflation and taxes. Staying in the current system will likely cost him up to $160,000 in lifetime income in 1997 dollars.............

If Social Security taxes were low enough to allow workers to save these additional dollars for their retirement, apologists for the system might conceivably be correct in characterizing Social Security as a pension program of last resort. But Social Security taxes are not low, and they are crowding out the ability of most low- and middle-income Americans to save for retirement. Thus, the rate of return on these taxes is very important, especially for those Americans for whom Social Security is their main retirement savings.


Last edited by TJefferson : 04-12-2010 at 04:59 AM.
Reply With Quote

  #13  
Old 04-12-2010, 06:37 AM
Barbie Zirconia Barbie Zirconia is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 554
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJefferson
The rate of return on SS is around a whopping 1%.
That's better than the rate of return that people got from Bernie.

But a "rate of return" on a social insurance program like Social Security doesn't make too much sense anyway.

My mutual fund, for example, doesn't offer the same benefits that Social Security does.

And by the way . . . my 401k is lower now than it was 10 years ago.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TJefferson
I don't understand why people on this board like to mention Auto Insurance so frequently in a wide range of topics, which is a free market system. Plenty of people succeed in America without it, and it is not forced upon anyone.
Car insurance is mandatory in my state.

So yes . . . it is forced upon everybody.

But what "rate of return" have I received from my car insurance company?

Or my health insurance company?

I've "lost" most of the money that's been put into it.

Does that make it a scam?

I don't expect any "rate of return" from these businesses.

What I do get is peace of mind. Just like with Social Security.

Reply With Quote

  #14  
Old 04-12-2010, 07:09 AM
mumbles's Avatar
mumbles mumbles is offline
Most Valued Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,803
Re: Social Security

no, sorry. you don't get it. there are regulations that insurance companies must maintain reserves, capital, cash, to pay claims. if a company cannot show that they can pay as promised, they are put out of business.

social security never did it that way. it was always a transfer from the worker to the retired worker. no trust fund.

they pretended to have a trust fund to "fix" social security, but the all extra money collected was just spent on other things. there is no trust fund. no reserve. no nothing.

social secutity is already in default, as i mentioned above, by promising to pay at age 65 then not doing it. people paid their premiums for 40 or 50 years based on that promise. the retirement age is being pushed back because there is no money to pay.

as the baby boom retires all of the income taxes collected from everybody won't be enough to pay the promised benefits. this same money is soon going to be paying the interest on the huge national debt.

this administration is delaying announcing their "fix" for social security because they wanted to fix medicare first. you know they doubled the medicare taxes while cutting the benefits? why? because there is no money to pay for any of this crap.

the "fix" for social security is going to be ugly, for sure, but i can't even imagine what they are going to do. you think poor young workers will keep working if half their pay goes directly to social security? it is already more than 12%.

Reply With Quote

  #15  
Old 04-12-2010, 07:10 AM
TJefferson TJefferson is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 275
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbie Zirconia View Post

Car insurance is mandatory in my state.

So yes . . . it is forced upon everybody.

Its only forced on people who want to drive on Government roads.

Ranchers, farmers, large property holders are under no obligation to insure vehicles that never leave their property.

Sorry about your 401k. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to it.

Reply With Quote

  #16  
Old 04-12-2010, 07:11 AM
TJefferson TJefferson is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 275
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
SS is a ponzi scheme....we are all aware of that.

It was never designed to payout to the one that payed in. The average age for men when it was put in place was 63 years old and it didn't kick in till 65

The problem with it today is that it hasn't moved upto 75.
Imagine the outcry of people like Barbie if she was told her and her family would only be able to collect if the age were properly adjusted.

They'd become apoplectic.

Reply With Quote

  #17  
Old 04-12-2010, 07:44 AM
TJefferson TJefferson is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 275
Re: Social Security

Yes, sorry I didn't mean to imply that.

Reply With Quote

  #18  
Old 04-12-2010, 04:02 PM
lexx's Avatar
lexx lexx is offline
Most Valued Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,939
Re: Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
no, sorry. you don't get it. there are regulations that insurance companies must maintain reserves, capital, cash, to pay claims. if a company cannot show that they can pay as promised, they are put out of business.

social security never did it that way. it was always a transfer from the worker to the retired worker. no trust fund.

they pretended to have a trust fund to "fix" social security, but the all extra money collected was just spent on other things. there is no trust fund. no reserve. no nothing.

social secutity is already in default, as i mentioned above, by promising to pay at age 65 then not doing it. people paid their premiums for 40 or 50 years based on that promise. the retirement age is being pushed back because there is no money to pay.

as the baby boom retires all of the income taxes collected from everybody won't be enough to pay the promised benefits. this same money is soon going to be paying the interest on the huge national debt.

this administration is delaying announcing their "fix" for social security because they wanted to fix medicare first. you know they doubled the medicare taxes while cutting the benefits? why? because there is no money to pay for any of this crap.

the "fix" for social security is going to be ugly, for sure, but i can't even imagine what they are going to do. you think poor young workers will keep working if half their pay goes directly to social security? it is already more than 12%.
the fix dont have to be ugly!? just eliminate anyone over 200,000 from receiving any bebefits!? that and raise retirement age to 75!? there you go!? NEXT!?
__________________
i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you


Reply With Quote

Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chained CPI - Social Security Yawn... Political Chat 1 12-20-2012 10:40 AM
No Social Security Raise. theme Government Scams 2 10-24-2010 07:39 AM
Social Security Spiritman6 Political Chat 5 09-06-2007 05:01 AM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump




This site may contain advice, opinions and statements of various information providers. Scam.com does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any advice, opinion, statement or other information provided by any information provider, any User of this Site or any other person or entity. Reliance upon any such advice, opinion, statement, or other information shall also be at the Userís own risk. Neither Scam.com nor its affiliates, nor any of their respective agents, employees, information providers or content providers, shall be liable to any User or anyone else for any inaccuracy, error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, alteration of or use of any content herein, or for its timeliness or completeness, nor shall they be liable for any failure of performance, computer virus or communication line failure, regardless of cause, or for any damages resulting therefrom. Just because a business, person, or entity is listed on scam.com does not necessarily constitute they are scammers. This is a free open forum where people can debate the merits from the consumer's or business owner's perspective. Registration and participation is always FREE.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 PM.




Scam.com Is Proudly Hosted By Rackco and Protected By CloudFlare


Scams Message Board - Copyright 2004-2013 Scam.com , All Rights Reserved.