Investing in trading software is just dumb

[taxguy]

You go to a "Get Motivated" or other major seminar where some well-known folks are speaking. It's an exciting venue with lots of fun and lots of ****** and music. Suddenly, you have a good looking salesmen or woman promoting the wonderful software or training. They excite you and do everything possible to prevent you from procrasting. They show you their wonderful home. They show you some supposed testimonials. Moreover, you see lots of folks running to the back of the room to spend thousands,....

Before you jump at this offer...take a deep breath and read this:

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Anyone who bought into Investools hype or other trading software sold at seminars is dumber than a Rock!! The same can be said of forex sofware and most commodities trading software.


I spoke with one a wall street executive. Here is a summary of his conversation with me and what he said:

" If I developed a great sofware package that can accurately predict top buys and market trends, do you think I would tell anyone about it.... let alone sell it?! I would hoard it."

"Moreover, If it really worked, I could sell it to the top wall street firms for BILLIONS and get capital gains on the sale,which means little tax too. In fact, the interest I would make on the money would exceed all the revenue that I would make trying to hawk the products at these venues."

"The problem is that these guys are very smart salesmen. They show their big house, their nice cars, show potential trades ( that didn't necessarily occur by the trading software such as Investools folks) and claim big bucks using a lot of emotional hype. Moreover, these seminar pitchmen rarely, if ever, show the losses sustained by the traders."" "In short:these programs should NEVER be purchased especially at seminars! "
"You can get many of the same tools with online trading academy and other programs for about $50 per month. Yes, that little. The same can be said for purchasing of forex trading software, commodities trading software etc. Yes, you will find folks who made money especially in the short term. However,studies have shown that long term, the VAST majority of folks don't make money with the software. Yes, they usually might have some profitable trades,but they almost always have enough losses to wipe out the gains and even usually lose money!"

He also noted, "Moreover, don't you think that folks who sponsored these big seminars make a huge piece of the sale, not to mention the commission to folks like Phil Towne, which is why the price is so high? These seminar folks look for the highest price products they can find so they can maximize their revenues. Generally, no software should EVER be purchased at these seminars."
My friend concluded as follows: " PT Barnum said their is a sucker born every minute. These seminar folks realize he was wrong. The suckers are born every second!"

"This is why when you go to their "training," you are primarly getting a very well planned pitch for more expensive products. Hey, you were a sucker once. Why not try it again?"

[BorisZ]

I could not have said better myself.

[taxguy]

Bottom line: Although I usually don't like to use the word "never,

Rule 1" NEVER buy software that costs $1,000 or more at seminars.

Rule 2:NEVER buy training programs that cost over $1,000 at seminars.

If you are considering ignoring rules 1 or 2, AT LEAST WAIT till the seminar is over and research what others have said about the products or services. You can ALWAYS order the same products online, and usually for less money.Check out the Better Business Bureau for the company that provides the products or training. See if there are a lot of complaints.

Finally, if you do spend $1,000 or more on a training program that then tries to upsell you on more expensive products in order to get the "real benefit," immediately ask for your money back!

I should note that some of you maybe thinking, "why would a well-known celebrity speak at programs where they sell questionable products?" The answer is two fold: First, they haven't investigated the products. Secondly, these well-known folks are being well-paid for their name recognition. They did their job getting you to come to the venue,which is why they usually don't speak as long as the pitchmen.

[taxguy]

Here is a post that I found on Ripoff report by a guy named Scott. Read what this guy said:
_______________________________
I wasn't going to say anything about my INVESTools experience at first out of respect for their coaches, but now I am so frustrated with their customer service and cancellation department, that I felt it very important to post a complaint on this site. I hope that this message will reach other students that have experienced similar problems with the company as I have, and that they also post their experience with the company. Consumers need to be informed about INVESTools before they invest thousands of dollars into their education like I did. I have had so many problems with INVESTools that it is hard to know where to start.

All consumers beware because INVESTools has two faces. When you attend the free seminar, you will meet their smiley-faced saleman with such a good sense of humor that you might actually believe all he says. He will share photos of his family and tell stories about dear ones, etc. He'll tell you how he started with $5,000 and turned it into millions trading with INVESTools. These guys are some of the best salesmen in the world, and you won't even realize it until you have already dumped $20,000 into their program and 2 years later have lost half of your retirement trying to trade options using your new investor education. How do I know this? You see, I am a consumer, just like you, seeking that financial security and well-being, and I am a gullible consumer that fell for their sale's pitch.

Here's what I was told. I was told that I could never learn to trade options from a book, just as a doctor would never learn to operate from reading a book either. I was told that I would make my tuition back within 6 months, and I was encouraged to charge the $20,000 on my credit card.(I even explained to the saleman that I was already in debt financially, and he insisted that this would change my life for the better.) I was told at the seminar that if I was not making money by the end of the program that he would personally work with me until I was successful. I was told by my sales rep that I would be given a very special deal if I agreed to be another success story for the company. (This was an especially good sales tactic making me believe even more in their program.) I was also told that the average PHD student was making 30% a month trading options. I was basically told everything I really wanted to hear, especially since I was having financial problems at the time.

Well, it's now been 2 years, and guess what, I am not the next INVESTools success story. Actually, I have lost nearly half of my savings trading the INVESTools method. I certainly never made my tuition back. I am now farther in debt than ever and my credit cards now exceed $50,000. The interest rates are so high that I can't keep up, and debt collecting agencies are calling me, harrassing me, and I am really in a serious financial state now. I can't say I owe it all to INVESTools, but I can honestly say about $30,000 of it has been lost going after the dreams that they sold me.

What has really pushed me over the edge recently was that I tried to communicate to the company that the education was not working out for me, and I wanted some of my tuition refunded because I felt they lied to me, and I also wanted my yearly subscription of $600 to their website back because I had no intention of using it anymore. I requested the website cancellation before my yearly subscription even started. But what they did was very sneaky. They renewed my website access 3 months before the subscription fee was actually due. So now my payment date on my credit card bill does not match my subscription renewal date. I had to file a dispute with my credit card company because they never responded to my requests, but now it looks like I had access for 3 months already, but the truth is that I had not even started my next year's subscription yet. I now know the reason INVESTools bills early. They do this is because when you file a dispute as I did, they say you have already used the site for 3 months and you do not qualify for a refund. The credit card company does not know all the facts, so they side with INVESTools on the dispute. So now that the credit card company has awarded INVESTools the $600, here's what INVESTools replied to me by email:

"You are not eligible for a full refund. You disputed this charge and the outcome of the dispute was in INVESTools favor. You can either accept a prorated refund or you can accept no refund at all. Those are your options."

Pretty nice hah? I couldn't believe that INVESTools actually threatened to rip me off $600 more! They closed my online access to the website and also kept the $600! They did not even offer me a partial refund until I contacted them. If I didn't say anything, they would have closed my account and kept all the money too. And I am a PHD student. I have already paid them over $20,000. To this day I still have not received any refund. I am checking my statement each day, but no credits show. I know this is totally illegal but not sure what I can do. If anyone reading this knows who I should contact, please post. I think I will start with the Attorney General, but INVESTools is in Utah, so I don't think they will do anything.

So that is some of my bad experience with INVESTools. I would also like to add that their hotline is very mixed. Sometimes you will get a good coach, sometimes you'll get a newbie who knows less than you, and sometimes you'll get a condescending a-hole. They know nothing about double diagonals, condors or calendars, so if you want to trade methods that actually work, don't bother with the hotline or INVESTools at all.

Before I leave, I would like to say a few good things about INVESTools. The good side is that they have many coaches that are pretty decent people. The only problem is that their website is really not for trading options. It's a pretty good site for trading stocks only. I have since been furthering my education in Options and finding some success finally. My advice is check out some free videos on CBOE.com. I wish I found that site before I found INVESTools. I really do regret ever paying INVESTools so much money now that I see what kind of people they really are.

So let's here it. What other students have been ripped off? I have met a lot of alumni, and I have still not found one INVESTools student who makes money month after month, year after year. Their option strategies do not work, and their site is not near as good as using software created specifically for options. Well enough said. Good luck on your trades and be sure to research INVESTools before you invest your hard-earned money into them. I for one am not happy with my investment.

Scott
New York, New York
U.S.A.

[taxguy]

No offense to anyone,but if you had a gold mine, would you tell anyone about it or sell it? Heck no! You would mine it and keep where you got your gold a big secret!

If programs like Investools worked, why would they sell the software for any price, let alone a few thousand...?

Think about it...

[gilroy]

Originally Posted by taxguy

No offense to anyone,but if you had a gold mine, would you tell anyone about it or sell it? Heck no! You would mine it and keep where you got your gold a big secret!

If programs like Investools worked, why would they sell the software for any price, let alone a few thousand...?

Think about it...

You are right. Why will they sell?

[Once Upon a Time]

Very much in agreement here.

If it works, why would it be for sale in the retail world?

A consistently profitable trading system could either be traded with scads of money pouring in to come under management and the associated incentive and management fees making the trader a multi-millionaire (See Warren Buffet, et al), or it could be sold to gigantic investment banks or trading companies for one time payments of many millions without having to deal with the messy mechanics of actually trading, and certainly without having to waste thousands of hours trying to talk gullible individuals out of hundreds or even a few thousand dollars.

Quite common with these companies that sell the non-working systems are:

Pointing to hypothetical results and/or pointing at results from a limited time period or and individual's results that don't necessarily reflect the much greater majority's losses.

Backtesting. Any computer programmer with even the most limited skills can take a set of back market data and keep tweaking it with changes to trading formulas to come up with something that looks like it would have had a good track record.

Hypothetical trades that could never have happened in the real world, or that would have had risk parameters that would have frightened the craziest cowboy of real traders.

Papertrading or demo accounts. Anyone can make money papertrading. I remember when Ken Roberts was big in the world of selling this stuff to tiny traders and every once in a while we'd hear someone tell us that they would start trading soon but they were having trouble making money on paper. Out of respect we would hold our tongues and not say, "You have got to be kidding!?". Papertrading is fine to test theories, but without real world experience it is easy to miss what is required to compare a papertrading system to how it will work in reality.

"Send us your money and if it doesn't work we'll give you a refund." Besides the issue of not getting a refund if you actually ask for one, consider this:

If you made up two opposite trading systems that told half the people to buy, and half the people to sell at the same time, you would end up getting to keep at least half the subscribers' fees that people sent in.

These are only scratching the surface of some of the deceptive practices. If morals aren't a problem for you, you can make a lot of money selling this sort of stuff and I don't want to provide a roadmap for the morally challenged.

[taxguy]

I just got another private message from a poor soul who bought into the Investools hype and, of course, lost money. When will people ever learn?

Note: there are some adds that this site places on my posts. They were NOT authorized by me in any way. This is another example of a scam.