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  #55  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:53 PM
malchediel malchediel is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
"Atoms and molecules bashing into each other to form what became known as man"??? Tell me what theory or science are you ignorantly trying to address?

Abiogenesis??....Theory of Evolution???...Big Bang???.

No, my understanding is based on evidence and proof. Unlike yours.
Your so called "evidence" is seriously lacking. As is your "proof". Unless you know a super scientist that has shown and proven evolution and has yet to disclose to the world his/her findings....

You have no PROOF, you have no EVIDENCE. You have SPECULATION. If you say otherwise, then you are at odds with the scientific community and are a liar.

-me
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  #56  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:08 PM
malchediel malchediel is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by svcguyhv View Post
Actually, it's honest, truthful and accurate. But you forgot to put 'yet' at the end of the sentence. It's better than pulling 'god didit' out of ones ass.
The only thing that could be pulled out of ones ass at this point is your head.

The Bible points to a honest, truthful and accurate description of the start. But you can't see that. Open your mind, look around.. understand.

Lemmi ask you, which "ape-man" wore a pill-box hat? Been a couple found fossilized ... they must have belonged to some "missing-link" (amazing we can find their hats but not the point they turned into humans). Lemmi ask you, how did fish and plants, in the record, become fossilized? Lemmi ask you, why is there wood and rock (fossilized) on the same stump/branch? Lemmi ask you, why according to evolutionists "theory" Neptune can't exist? How about Mercury? Or the other planets, happenings of the cosmos can't be... or shouldn't be according to their "theory"?

Please, don't call God's explanation of how it started a name and then go along merrily about your way thinking evolution proved it all.... because... shhhh... it hasn't and it won't.

-me
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  #57  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:20 PM
malchediel malchediel is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by svcguyhv View Post
I asked first. Plus I'm not the one asserting that we all came from Adam. The burden of proof is not mine. But I'll humor you. You are telling me that the entire human race is from 1 genetic source, Adam.
Yeah, he jerked off into a toads ass and you were born.

I'm sayin that I believe that what the Bible says about the beginning is true -- adam and eve.

-me
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  #58  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:27 PM
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
Lemmi ask you, which "ape-man" wore a pill-box hat? Been a couple found fossilized ... they must have belonged to some "missing-link" (amazing we can find their hats but not the point they turned into humans). Lemmi ask you, how did fish and plants, in the record, become fossilized? Lemmi ask you, why is there wood and rock (fossilized) on the same stump/branch? Lemmi ask you, why according to evolutionists "theory" Neptune can't exist? How about Mercury? Or the other planets, happenings of the cosmos can't be... or shouldn't be according to their "theory"?
What on earth are you rambling about??!?!?

a) Neptune and mercury have absolutely nothing, nada, zip to do with evolution.

b) What theory says that neptune and mercury can not exist?

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  #59  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:35 PM
malchediel malchediel is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by svcguyhv View Post
The beginning is irrelevant. The fact is that you just proved my point is that it came from chaos to order. Not only does it happen, it happens a shit load of times. Also, who are you to say that everything started from order? Maybe you're wrong and the first step was chaos. You would say that it was order. I would say confidently that "I don't know, yet."
I said no such thing. I said chaos comes from order - meaning that you have order and it turns to chaos. You cannot have order from chaos, unless you are talking with a sesame street scientist. I am no one to say it started however... I am however, a person who has read and understood the Bible on how it started... I speak not on my own authority, but God's. Just to point out though, science says you can't get order from chaos.. it's the other way around. You have order and it "evolves" into chaos.

No. I don't know. I do however know what the Bible teaches, and is backed up by science.

Quote:
What? Like they are in a line, equal distance, shape and sized according to gravitational pull from the sun? You have no clue what you're talking about.
Heard of Halley(sp)? A comet that had something to do with Mark Twain? They can be mapped....

Quote:
You cannot prove the first state. So now what? How do you know that the state didn't change a billion times before you got the idea? He didn't answer me, so
I have the truth on my side. The only ones who expect a change and try to prepare are the ones who try to defend evolution.

-me
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  #60  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:40 PM
malchediel malchediel is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by kazza View Post
What on earth are you rambling about??!?!?

a) Neptune and mercury have absolutely nothing, nada, zip to do with evolution.

b) What theory says that neptune and mercury can not exist?
a) oh yes.. yes they do.

b) why, evolution. Which is what I said.

You show your ignorance of your own theory.

Here's a hint... go google and search.... unless you really want ME to tell you whats wrong with the evolutionary theory as it applies to this.

-me
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  #61  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:57 PM
malchediel malchediel is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svcguyhv View Post

I find it admirable that you would put this on the internet. It does sadden me that the most innocent in this world suffer. Please accept my heartfelt sympathies.
I'm not here to take away from anyone that which gives them peace and hope. But I what I will do is ask questions. Even if it causes people to think, get angry or lash out. When, in my life I figured out that god to me was a lie, and I found the errors and inconsistencies. I began to rethink and live my life as I saw fit and that benefited my wife and daughter.
I had to ignore the rest of you reply... simply to respond to this. Thank you for being civilized. I've had many respond in variations of retarded, messed up kids, natural selection, maybe your God knew you were too stupid, thank your God for saving us the trouble, etc.. in responding to this.

The simple fact remains... these are children. No matter what you believe. Regardless of what you think of me. The hurt and pain are real. At any rate, thank you for being understanding, no matter what our differences are.

However, why do you feel God lied to you? Why do you feel that He is not the way?

What "errors" (inconsistencies) are you talking about? How did not believing in God help your family life? Feel free to PM me, I'll call you to discuss this... =)

-me
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  #62  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:45 PM
svcguyhv svcguyhv is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
The only thing that could be pulled out of ones ass at this point is your head.
So, you are saying that honesty is the best policy?
Quote:
The Bible points to a honest, truthful and accurate description of the start. But you can't see that. Open your mind, look around.. understand.
The bible points out things that are from the perspective of ignorant man and they got it wrong.

An all knowing god has no right to put wrong things into its bible!

Quote:
Lemmi ask you, which "ape-man" wore a pill-box hat? Been a couple found fossilized ... they must have belonged to some "missing-link" (amazing we can find their hats but not the point they turned into humans).

Lemmi ask you, how did fish and plants, in the record, become fossilized?

Lemmi ask you, why is there wood and rock (fossilized) on the same stump/branch?
Need more information than what you are saying here. I don't understand your questions. They're incomplete and how do you fossilize a rock? It's already a rock!

Quote:
Lemmi ask you, why according to evolutionists "theory" Neptune can't exist? How about Mercury? Or the other planets, happenings of the cosmos can't be... or shouldn't be according to their "theory"?
The evolutionary model has nothing to do with planets. That would be cosmology. I've never heard evolution spoken by a biologist concerning cosmology. That would be unless planets are born, reproduce and pass their planet genes onto offspring planets, I find that cramming cosmology into an evolution model a dirty trick used by intillagent deassinine folks.

Quote:
Please, don't call God's explanation of how it started a name and then go along merrily about your way thinking evolution proved it all.... because... shhhh... it hasn't and it won't.

-me
If I offend god, then it's between it and me. Simply put, if it is who he is described to be and I hurt its feelings, then tough shit.

You can blame the H1N1 virus on the evolutionary model, and you can also blame the vaccine of the H1N1 on the evolutionary model.

Evolution does not prove anything. You've been reading your tracts again about "evolution proves god is a potato!". Evolution is a model that is used to explain how things evolve. It is the transitions that prove the model. The key work here is _HOW_..... Not why.

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  #63  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:55 PM
svcguyhv svcguyhv is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
Yeah, he jerked off into a toads ass and you were born.
Luke 1:20 "And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season."


Quote:
I'm sayin that I believe that what the Bible says about the beginning is true -- adam and eve.

-me
Just because you believe it as being true, doesn't make it so. It's been dis-proven to the point where the story is laughable.



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  #64  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:18 PM
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Blue Crab of PAIN!!! Blue Crab of PAIN!!! is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
You have no PROOF, you have no EVIDENCE. You have SPECULATION. If you say otherwise, then you are at odds with the scientific community and are a liar.

-me
WRONG!

Quote:
The vast majority of the scientific community and academia supports evolutionary theory as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, anthropology, and others.[16][17][18][19][20] One 1987 estimate found that "700 scientists ... (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists) ... give credence to creation-science".[21] An expert in the evolution-creationism controversy, professor and author Brian Alters states that "99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution".[22] A 1991 Gallup poll of Americans found that about 5% of scientists (including those with training outside biology) identified themselves as creationists.[23][24]

Additionally, the scientific community considers intelligent design, a neo-creationist offshoot, to be unscientific,[25] pseudoscience,[26][27] or junk science.[28][29] The U.S. National Academy of Sciences has stated that intelligent design "and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life" are not science because they cannot be tested by experiment, do not generate any predictions, and propose no new hypotheses of their own.[30] In September 2005, 38 Nobel laureates issued a statement saying "Intelligent design is fundamentally unscientific; it cannot be tested as scientific theory because its central conclusion is based on belief in the intervention of a supernatural agent."[31] In October 2005, a coalition representing more than 70,000 Australian scientists and science teachers issued a statement saying "intelligent design is not science" and calling on "all schools not to teach Intelligent Design (ID) as science, because it fails to qualify on every count as a scientific theory".[32]

In 1986, an amicus curiae brief asking the US Supreme Court to reject a Louisiana state law requiring the teaching of creationism in the case Edwards v. Aguillard[33] was signed by 72 US Nobel Prize winners, 17 state academies of science and 7 other scientific societies.[6] This was the largest collection of Nobel Prize winners to sign anything up to that point.[20] The amicus curiae brief also clearly described why evolution was science, not religion, and why creationism is not science.

There are many scientific and scholarly organizations from around the world that have issued statements in support of the theory of evolution.[34][35][36][37] The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the world's largest general scientific society with more than 130,000 members and over 262 affiliated societies and academies of science including over 10 million individuals, has made several statements and issued several press releases in support of evolution.[19] The prestigious United States National Academy of Sciences that provides science advice to the nation, has published several books supporting evolution and denouncing creationism and intelligent design.[38][39]

There is a notable difference between the opinion of scientists and that of the general public in the US. A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "87% of scientists say that humans and other living things have evolved over time and that evolution is the result of natural processes such as natural selection. Just 32% of the public accepts this as true."[40]
Quote:
The level of support for creationism among relevant scientists is minimal. Only 700 out of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists gave credence to creationism in 1987,[21] representing about 0.146% of relevant scientists. In 2007 the Discovery Institute reported that about 600 scientists signed their A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism list, up from 100 in 2001.[134] The actual statement of the Scientific Dissent from Darwinism is a relatively mild one that expresses skepticism about the absoluteness of 'Darwinism' (and is in line with the falsifiability required of scientific theories) to explain all features of life, and does not in any way represent an absolute denial or rejection of evolution.[135] By contrast, a tongue-in-cheek response known as Project Steve, a list of scientists named Steve who agree that evolution is "a vital, well-supported, unifying principle of the biological sciences," has 1080 Steves as of March 26, 2009. People named Steve make up approximately 1% of the total U.S. population.

The United States National Science Foundation statistics on US yearly science graduates demonstrate that from 1987 to 2001, the number of biological science graduates increased by 59% while the number of geological science graduates decreased by 20.5%. However, the number of geology graduates in 2001 was only 5.4% of the number of graduates in the biological sciences, while it was 10.7% of the number of biological science graduates in 1987.[136] The Science Resources Statistics Division of the National Science Foundation estimated that in 1999, there were 955,300 biological scientists in the US (about 1/3 of who hold graduate degrees). There were also 152,800 earth scientists in the US as well.[137]

Therefore, the 600 Darwin Dissenters represent about 0.054% of the estimated 1,108,100 biological and geological scientists in the US in 1999. In addition, a large fraction of the Darwin Dissenters have specialties unrelated to research on evolution; of the dissenters, three-quarters are not biologists.[138] Therefore, the roughly 150 biologist Darwin Dissenters represent about 0.0157% of the US biologists that existed in 1999. As of 2006, the list was expanded to include non-US scientists, overestimating the number of US scientists that do not accept evolution.[139] , according to the Discovery Institute, a known creationist lobby institution. Despite the increase in absolute number of scientists willing to sign the dissent form, proportionately the figures indicates the support from scientists for creationism and intelligent design is steadily decreasing, despite an increase in public support.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_o..._for_evolution

By the way I'd really enjoy reading what you would consider to be "proof or evidence" for your beliefs.

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  #65  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:20 PM
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Blue Crab of PAIN!!! Blue Crab of PAIN!!! is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
a) oh yes.. yes they do.

b) why, evolution. Which is what I said.

You show your ignorance of your own theory.

Here's a hint... go google and search.... unless you really want ME to tell you whats wrong with the evolutionary theory as it applies to this.

-me
Who the hell taught YOU evolutionary theory? Kent Hovind!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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  #66  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:36 PM
svcguyhv svcguyhv is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
I said no such thing. I said chaos comes from order - meaning that you have order and it turns to chaos. You cannot have order from chaos, unless you are talking with a sesame street scientist.
Please insert YOUR proof. " ... "

But I offer this, I had access to this when I was taking physics in college, but I cannot get it now. But " Synchronization from Disordered Driving Forces in Arrays of Coupled Oscillators, 034104, Sebastian F. Brandt, Babette K. Dellen, and Ralf Wessel"

Well, these people are _real_, and they are physicists. You can see an article that I got from a friend of mine. http://record.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/7112.html

You and your bible are wrong.

Quote:
I am no one to say it started however... I am however, a person who has read and understood the Bible on how it started...
Keep reading, it seems to be doing great things.
Quote:
I speak not on my own authority, but God's.
Your god has no authority. Learn to speak for yourself.
Quote:
Just to point out though, science says you can't get order from chaos.. it's the other way around. You have order and it "evolves" into chaos.
Read the article. What law are your referring to? Did you pull that out of the bible?

Quote:
No. I don't know. I do however know what the Bible teaches, and is backed up by science.
If you're going to make an assertion, back it up. You're lying for your god again. Stop it. It makes you look bad.

Quote:
Heard of Halley(sp)? A comet that had something to do with Mark Twain? They can be mapped....
What does that have to do with anything?

Quote:
I have the truth on my side.
Here's a truth; "You've turned into your dad the day you put a piece of wood aside specifically for stirring paint "

But I won't live my life by it.

Quote:
The only ones who expect a change and try to prepare are the ones who try to defend evolution.
There is no need to defend something when the enemy doesn't understand how it works.

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  #67  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:17 PM
kazza's Avatar
kazza kazza is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
a) oh yes.. yes they do.

b) why, evolution. Which is what I said.

You show your ignorance of your own theory.

Here's a hint... go google and search.... unless you really want ME to tell you whats wrong with the evolutionary theory as it applies to this.

-me
The theory of evolution describes how the relative distribution of genes changes within a population, so please tell me why you think Neptune and Mercury disprove evolution. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


oh, wait. I found the stupid article that you must have read.


a) Planetary formation has absoultely nothing to do with the theory of evolution. The TOE doesn't even describe how life began, let alone how the planet got here.

b) Everything else mentioned about Neptune and Mercury follows from this.

In fact, the stupidity of the argument is astounding. I don't think I've ever read anything this dumb before.

For those who haven't read it, it goes something like this:


The leading theory about the formation of the planet Mercury involves a sudden change that occured when a large heavy object collided with it billions of years ago.

Therefore, Mercury did not form due to gradual changes over time.

Therefore, nothing could have formed due to gradual changes over time.

Therefore, evolution is wrong.



Do I really need to explain what's wrong with this argument?


Article here if anyone wants to read:
http://creation.com/mercurythe-tiny-...-for-evolution


Even if the arguments were correct, you've proved there is a problem with astrophysics, not with biological evolution.

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  #68  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:18 PM
svcguyhv svcguyhv is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
I had to ignore the rest of you reply... simply to respond to this. Thank you for being civilized.
I, like most people here are looking to be as close to the truth as possible. If for you the truth is the Bible, then fine, enjoy your path and I wish you the best. But for me, it's not.
Quote:
I've had many respond in variations of retarded, messed up kids, natural selection, maybe your God knew you were too stupid, thank your God for saving us the trouble, etc.. in responding to this.
Not sure I understand you here.

Quote:
The simple fact remains... these are children. No matter what you believe. Regardless of what you think of me. The hurt and pain are real. At any rate, thank you for being understanding, no matter what our differences are.
Not trying to be dramatic, but it is our differences that make life enjoyable.

Quote:
However, why do you feel God lied t
o you? Why do you feel that He is not the way?
I don't think god lied to anyone. I simply don't believe it. I may have used the "god lied" phrase, but that does not reflect the reason for my deconversion.

Quote:
What "errors" (inconsistencies) are you talking about? How did not believing in God help your family life? Feel free to PM me, I'll call you to discuss this... =)
Errors? Where do you start? Okay, 1 corinthian 15:3, Paul supposedly had his conversion 2 years after the death of jesus. Paul was the cheif prosecutor of the jews who oversaw the stoning of stephen and other christians.
Where was paul, who studied under gamaliel, two years earlier during the holiest of weeks? Was he not there to see the apostacy and the heresy of jesus before the sanhedrin? Was he not there to see the execution of jesus and notice the mysterious disappearance of jesus from the tomb? Was he not a witness to jesus? He claims to have never heard of jesus, though he was a contemporary of jesus. Based on his loyalty and zeal to the jews, he would have been witness or have heard of some of these events.
In 1 Cor. 15:4, according to what scriptures are we referring to here? The gospels have not yet been written. What OT scriptures say that jesus will die for our sins and be resurected on the third day.
In 1 cor. 5:5, What 12? judas hanged himself after turning jesus over. In another story, or he bought a piece of land and tripped over something and disemboweled himself.
In 1 cor. 5:6, was it exactly 500? Maybe 245? 312? 514? Did they do a head count of the unnamed witnesses?
In 1 cor. 5:7. Why does he speak of being born some time after jesus' death? According to apologists, paul was a contemporary. This is a complete denial that paul was a contemporary. But according to the time line, paul was a contemporary.

There's five. I can go on all day with this. It's bunk.

How has this helped my family life? Easy. I only have this time with my family, so I spend every minute that I can with them. Not expecting that I will see them after this life, I cherish and value them all the more. Because once it's over, it's over. My family's value has surpassed what it was when I was a christian believing that I would see them after I die.

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  #69  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:21 PM
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kazza kazza is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by malchediel View Post
I said no such thing. I said chaos comes from order - meaning that you have order and it turns to chaos. You cannot have order from chaos, unless you are talking with a sesame street scientist. I am no one to say it started however... I am however, a person who has read and understood the Bible on how it started... I speak not on my own authority, but God's. Just to point out though, science says you can't get order from chaos.. it's the other way around. You have order and it "evolves" into chaos.
REALLY!?!?!?

So how does a woman turn food into a child?

A child has very low entropy compared to the food that the mother is injesting. How is she turning the chaotic distribution of amino acids that she consumes into an ordered child?

Or does god intervene every single time a child is born?

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  #70  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:24 PM
svcguyhv svcguyhv is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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a) Planetary formation has absoultely nothing to do with the theory of evolution. The TOE doesn't even describe how life began, let alone how the planet got here.
Well, I heard that Earth and Venus hooked up about 4500 years ago and created Mercury. Earth and Venus got into a fight, split up and never called each other again. Mercury started dating this girl named Sol. I hear she's really hot!

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  #71  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:30 PM
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kazza kazza is offline
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by svcguyhv View Post
Well, I heard that Earth and Venus hooked up about 4500 years ago and created Mercury. Earth and Venus got into a fight, split up and never called each other again. Mercury started dating this girl named Sol. I hear she's really hot!
Hah, Lol.

Earth got off easy, then. The last planet that broke it off with Venus ended up as the asteroid belt.

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  #72  
Old 09-02-2009, 09:52 AM
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Re: Intelligent Design,/The Alternatives.

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Originally Posted by svcguyhv View Post
Well, I heard that Earth and Venus hooked up about 4500 years ago and created Mercury. Earth and Venus got into a fight, split up and never called each other again. Mercury started dating this girl named Sol. I hear she's really hot!
I like your explanation better than Immanuel Velikovsky's; Velly was quite the scholar, but always in the kitchen at parties.


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