Is ad-ventures4u.com a scam?

[Pippo]

I was wondering if anybody signed-up for ad-ventures4u.com and if they actually pay you or it is just another scam.

Thanks,
Pippo

[BorisZ]

Looks to me like autosurf type of scheme. In other words, scam.

[SteveMeyer]

Originally Posted by Pippo

I was wondering if anybody signed-up for ad-ventures4u.com and if they actually pay you or it is just another scam.

Thanks,
Pippo

I am very active with Ad-Ventures4U, and can confirm, the company is as legit as they come. I am signed up / getting paid / working the system, and the system is working.

Here is my website, with additional info on Ad-Ventures4U:

[link removed by mod]

[Moneyinthemailbox]

Originally Posted by Pippo

I was wondering if anybody signed-up for ad-ventures4u.com and if they actually pay you or it is just another scam.

Thanks,
Pippo

Adventues is simply the best source of advertising on the net..
Including website views, Banner Ads and Text Ads...This site is generating over a thousand hits a day for me and the fact I am getting paid to advertise my site make it that much more exciting...
You can visit my link at the bottom of the page for more information...DPP

[CHATEEAU]

nope.
not a scam.
i've already been paid, too.
my $10 has reaped $185 so far.
i'm going to continue a roll-over for
vacation time this summer.

SAM

[veruci]

I don't believe this TE was started to scam anyone.

However, its business model is bound to fail. There's only so long that they can take incoming funds and spin off 15% weekly income to members seeking to cash in on their weekly earnings.

In fact, this morning, the owners of the exchange altered the rules regarding cashout, essentially punishing those that sought to take out the entirety of their weekly earnings in cash, rather than rolling earnings over.

This is a sign that they are experiencing a run on the bank.

I do believe that they did have good intentions, it's just that their math is as bad as their spelling and grammar.

They are not Madoffs, just naive.

[BorisZ]

Originally Posted by veruci

I don't believe this TE was started to scam anyone.

However, its business model is bound to fail. There's only so long that they can take incoming funds and spin off 15% weekly income to members seeking to cash in on their weekly earnings.

Actually, what you wrote is definition of ponzi, although on very small scale.

[alfonsoruiz]

If you need to know if [self-promo spam link removed] is a scam? Just read this article!

[heartstar12]

From steveraysmith 449.89 12 May 2009 @17:22 PM done From steveraysmith 49.00 12 May 2009 @17:22 PM done From steveraysmith 1,014.30 12 May 2009 @17:21 PM done

[heartstar12]

To some people everything sounds like a scam, and those people never make any money, because they never believe it's possible to make much money quickly and easily.

But that's okay, because for everything that is for real, even for a season, there's a hundred other things that take people's money and run.

I know Steve Ray Smith, the owner of ad-ventures4u.com personally. I also worked for him for awhile.

He's an honest person who's willing to be identified. Everyone knows his real name and where he lives. He keeps members updated everyday. He's paid weekly and on time since this program began in January.

Will it last forever. No one knows. But I know Steve and his family are putting their lives into this, and working harder than anyone who yells "scam."

Do you call an offline start-up company that's selling shares a scam? Does it sound too good to be true that a few people who bought dollar shares in Sony and other such names when they began are mutli-millionaires now?

All I know is that this guy and his family are for real and he's attaching other businesses from which 90% of those revenues will go into member's pockets, not his.

The reason this programs now has 17,000 members is that Steve did what he said he would do, kept paying people on time, and took less money for himself, because he cares.

If anyone wants to see a real scam in action, take a look at the history of the Federal Reserve and the bankers who run this country and our presidents.

Or take a look at our social security system.

Steve trying to establish a real online business that provides real useful advertising and other services and products to come.

So far, he's succeeded beyond my expectations. If I thought it was a scam, I wouldn't have put $14,000 of my own money into this.

If the business someday isn't able to reach Traffic Swarm status and endure, he and his family will have done their best. And, I don't call that a scam either.

The biggest names in network marketing are in ad-ventures4u.com now. Would they join a scam?

I've been in scams, and lost 10's of thousands of dollars. And I got pretty depressed over it for awhile, but I got over it. You know why, because I'm not working like a little slave for peanuts pay anymore for employers who live in their little palaces while they pay their help as little as possible.

The God and Goddess I believe in, help people when they ask, and don't expect humans to live like little slaves.

The internet gives people a chance they wouldn't have. Yes, it's full of liars and thieves, and scams. But an honest person and his family trying their best to succeed and help other do the same is not a scam.

If ad-ventures4u.com should fail someday. Go ahead and yell and whine scam. I say Steve did his best, because that's what he's about. His best for others.

Eric Christopherson

[Moneyinthemailbox]

Originally Posted by heartstar12

To some people everything sounds like a scam, and those people never make any money, because they never believe it's possible to make much money quickly and easily.

But that's okay, because for everything that is for real, even for a season, there's a hundred other things that take people's money and run.

I know Steve Ray Smith, the owner of ad-ventures4u.com personally. I also worked for him for awhile.

He's an honest person who's willing to be identified. Everyone knows his real name and where he lives. He keeps members updated everyday. He's paid weekly and on time since this program began in January.

Will it last forever. No one knows. But I know Steve and his family are putting their lives into this, and working harder than anyone who yells "scam."

Do you call an offline start-up company that's selling shares a scam? Does it sound too good to be true that a few people who bought dollar shares in Sony and other such names when they began are mutli-millionaires now?

All I know is that this guy and his family are for real and he's attaching other businesses from which 90% of those revenues will go into member's pockets, not his.

The reason this programs now has 17,000 members is that Steve did what he said he would do, kept paying people on time, and took less money for himself, because he cares.

If anyone wants to see a real scam in action, take a look at the history of the Federal Reserve and the bankers who run this country and our presidents.

Or take a look at our social security system.

Steve trying to establish a real online business that provides real useful advertising and other services and products to come.

So far, he's succeeded beyond my expectations. If I thought it was a scam, I wouldn't have put $14,000 of my own money into this.

If the business someday isn't able to reach Traffic Swarm status and endure, he and his family will have done their best. And, I don't call that a scam either.

The biggest names in network marketing are in ad-ventures4u.com now. Would they join a scam?

I've been in scams, and lost 10's of thousands of dollars. And I got pretty depressed over it for awhile, but I got over it. You know why, because I'm not working like a little slave for peanuts pay anymore for employers who live in their little palaces while they pay their help as little as possible.

The God and Goddess I believe in, help people when they ask, and don't expect humans to live like little slaves.

The internet gives people a chance they wouldn't have. Yes, it's full of liars and thieves, and scams. But an honest person and his family trying their best to succeed and help other do the same is not a scam.

If ad-ventures4u.com should fail someday. Go ahead and yell and whine scam. I say Steve did his best, because that's what he's about. His best for others.

Eric Christopherson

Eric I could not have said it better my self...
and I think that is why people are signing up in droves is because of Steve Smith...

I have never met him but he really seems like a genuine person who is trying to build a good life for he and his family and we are the lucky ones for being a part of it...

[Hopeful Cynic]

What some of the people who promote programs like this already know is that there have been literally thousands of "advertising" companies just like this one. What some of the people promoting programs like this one already know is that the vast majority of the people who join will lose money. What some of the people who promote programs like this one already know is that if they get their money in fast, recruit and promote like mad, and get their money out before the program collapses (or gets shut down by the government), they can make money. What those promoters do not care about is how many people they need to lie to in order to make their profits.

Can anyone singing the praises of this company explain how ad-ventures4u is any different from Ad Surf Daily, 12DailyPro, PheonixSurf, C.E.P or any of the others in that very long line of internet "advertising" programs that the government closed down because they were in fact ponzi schemes? Or any different from Megalido, Surf180, Ad-Market, EasyProfitSurf or any of the other in the INCREDIBLY long line of "advertising" companies that collapsed taking peoples money with them even before the government got around to shutting them down?

Perhaps you can tell I've had this conversation before and honestly I know how it's going to turn out. There are two type of promoters, those who are genuinely new to autosurf programs who can't for the life of them understand why anyone would be critical of a profitable program and then there are those who realize how easy it is to make money off the people who've never heard of an autosurf* program before.

*(Yes ad-v4u calls itself a traffic exchange, perhaps because anyone putting autosurf into google will find too much negative information.)

To anyone reading this who is considering putting their own hard earned cash into a ponzi scheme like this one, please do yourself a favor and do a google search on any of the program names I listed in the second paragraph of this post. You will learn of many fine people just like your self who lost money, homes, their kids college funds to scam programs making the exact same type of promises that ad-ventures4u is. Just please remember, each and every one of those people believed in the programs that scammed them, why else would they put their own money into them?

[heartstar12]

Appreciate your response, Hopeful Cynic. Let's clash a little and remain friends

Well, it's not an auto-surf, because people just can't start the ads surfing and then walk away and have breakfast. That's one difference.
I was in about 20 of those last year. Some you mentioned.

It's manual surf, people need to actually view other people's ads, and that gives a real value. I know that doesn't guarantee a surf will last. Most won't. Most will shut down at some point.

With any start-up business, online or off, it's a gamble. Most new businesses fail, online or offline.

I always tell people with anything, don't put more of your money into anything than you can bear to lose. And, get your initial money back in a timely manner.

It is a terrible thing when people risk their homes, life savings or a child's college education funds. But it shows how desperate people are to have a better life and more money.

I'm a risk-taker, because I no longer wanted to be treated like trash as a farm worker, factory worker and security guard. There's alot of people like me out there. And many others who gave up. Risk-takers believe anything is possible.

It's good you've given a snapshot of the potential dark-side to any surfing program.

I guess one difference with ad-ventures4u.com is the owner is taking alot less money for himself and he is attaching other buinesses to the surf to make money for the members.

Does this guarantee long-term success? No. But it gives the situation a fighting chance.

From knowing Steve, I can say with certainty that he wants this to succeed for all concerned.

As far as the government is concerned, I think all online opportunities should have a disclaimer everyone needs to see before signing in, like AdGateWorld has, so that people just don't throw all their money in that their family may need etc.

As far as Ponzi schemes are concerned. All of human society, governments and many religions are all pyramids. I'm not defending it. I despise it. Why should a CEO make a huge slary in comparision to a farmer who grows food for people to eat? Look what the Federal Reserve System has done to America.

My wife and I have had interesting talks about ad-ventures4u.com. And we ask ourselves questions about ADV4U.
How long will it last? Will it last more than two years? Can Steve make it last indefinitely with anough income coming in from the other businesses?

We don't have the answers. We're watching. We know Steve and his family are committed to this.

But, from another point of view, some more positive folk have, Why not enjoy the ride and see what happens? Why not enjoy the mystery instead of being naysayer. But I understand you wish to protect others also, and that's a great quality.

And from another perspective, many people enjoy the thrill of not knowing what will happen. To some, perhaps many, it's simply a form of gambling, concerning all surfs past and present.

For myself, I find surfs in general too risky, with the exception of AdGateWorld, ad-ventures4u.com, and I haven't decided about ad-viewglobal yet.

Somewhere I think there's a balance between helpful wise cautions, and letting people have some hope and fun. In my state, we have a state lottery. Nobody calls it a ponzi scheme, and the government wouldn't know what to do without it. I think it's a waste of money, because of the odds. I feel the same way about casino's. But the odds with some online opportunities can be pretty enticing.

Why can't we just enjoy this experience and see what happens, yes, with cautions in place. Would you deny people the freedom to do what they wish with their own money. Are you God or our mom or dad?

I think it's exciting not knowing quite what will happen. Let's enjoy the show and have some fun.

Even the most self-righteous people need to loosen up and have some fun.

Best of luck to all.
Spend what you dare and can bear to loose. Regain your principle in a timely manner. Do as you will, and harm none. May the blessings be,
Eric Christopherson

[Hopeful Cynic]

Greetings heartstar12,

I'm glad to see that you're at least a bit more honest than many people who promote surf ponzis like this one.

I was in about 20 of those last year. Some you mentioned.

I've been in scams, and lost 10's of thousands of dollars.

Every "program" claims to be different than the ones that came before, they need to because all it's predecessors have failed or are failing, each and every one left more people with less money in their pocket than with more. But a few people, who know how to play the "game" can and do make money, as long as they don't mind how they make it.

You speak of "not putting in more than you can afford to lose", wise advice but if you've been in as many of these as you say then you know for a fact that most people are given any assurance they need to be convinced that there is little or no risk, that their money is safe. In order to maintain payouts to existing members these programs need to attract a constant and increasing supply of fresh money.

When they start they might have honorable intentions, promising themselves as much as their potential members that they wont stoop to the level of deceit and manipulation that previous programs have. But every dollar they take in carries with it a promise of more than one dollar to pay out. The laws of mathematics are as immutable as the law of gravity, each and every one of these so called "advertising" programs has come crashing down to earth. To keep fresh money coming in they abandon any good intentions they might have started with and will tell people anything needed to get them to open their wallets.

And of course all of this leaves aside the fact that programs like this are illegal in the United States, if they grow to the point where they attract attention they will be shut down, the administrators and top promoters will face charges and the "winners"(those who took out more money than they put in) will be obliged to return their profits. Oh, and the February 1st announcement that ad-ventures4u was in "Panama now" wont make one lick of legal difference to any member or promoter who lives in the USA.

[heartstar12]

Hi Hopeful Cynic and other friends,
Well, came to the conclusion it's not necessary for me to give further rebuttal or have the last word, so I just want to wish everyone a little more wealth than you need, health and happiness. I'm on your side, and want whatever is best for you.
Eric Christopherson
Lafayette, NY USA
heartstar12@gmail.com

[joannherd]

NO THIS IS NOT A SCAM:

THE GENTLEMEN THAT STARTED THIS
ARE VERY TRUSTWORTHY AND THEY
STARTED THIS SITE BECAUSE THEY
GOT RIPPED OFF FOR $2,000.00 ON
A SITE.
I INVESTED $100.00 AND AM GETTING SIX TO SEVEN DOLLARS A DAY.
HOPE YOU FIND ENOUGH PEOPLE
TO SET YOUR MIND AT EASE.


(name, phone number and referral link removed - mod)

[mumbles]

okay, they got plenty of money to pay you everyday, so why did you have to pay $100? they got stacks of money already, right?

the way a ponzi works, is, he says, give me a dollar and i'll give you two - he does. then you give him 10 and he gives you 20. then you give him 100 and he gives you 200.

you tell everybody and you and everybody give him 1000's of dollars and he's gone. bye. maybe in costa rica under a different name.

[alasycia]

I am an ex member of ASD. I believed that ASD was legal and honorouble.

It is now clear that it was neither and we were scammed.

I dont know Steve Ray Smith and have no reason to believe he is anything less than honourable and means what he says when he says he wants to run a programme that scams noone.

The problem that an autosurf - even if it is a mixture of free Traffic exchange and paying and earning members - is a model which cannot be legal, unless there is substantial capital ******* or outside revenue sources in place from the very beginning to pay out the liabilities that will be accrued by the paying members. It is no good finding the money after the programme has started to make it legal. It must be legal from day one. The fact that members can compound their earnings and create new liabilities with any new hard cash coming it, only worsens the situation.

The "no guarantees given" arguement will never hold up, as the returns on the ventures are material to the programme and its members. This has never been successfully argued by ASD or any other autosurf and it will not be any different for Ad-ventures4U, if they are unable to make the level of payments they have done so far or run out of money.

Regrettably the issue of whether the owner is a nice guy or not is not the issue. The issue is that he has chosen a business model which is by its very nature, unsustainable and basically illegal in the US to do so.

It is illegal in the US and many other western countries to pay old members with new members funds. That constitutes a ponzi. The fact that Steve has registered ad-ventures4U offshore in Panama will NOT protect them or the members if they are US citizens and subject to US laws.

The second issue will be the nature of his product. If you can get the same value for free - clicks on other people's sites in exchange for views of yours - that you do paying for them - then this can only be seen as an investment and not an advertising purchase. There is no added value other than a return on investment. So ad-ventures4U will also fall into the unregistered securities trap. The combination of the paying part of the programme with the free Traffic Exchange onlñy accentuates the "non-advertising" nature of the ventures he sells.

This programme seems to be attracting a great deal of attention recently from the usual internet marketing players. Their only objective will be to join for the ventures earnings. Any results from their adverts will be a bonus. The same thing happened to ASD.

Once the network marketing world got hold of ASD, it imploded and created enormous liabilities that would never have been able to be honoured if the US SEcret Service hadnt stepped in to stop it.

[myglobalresults]

Show me the outside revenue sources paying out 10% a week?

If there is none then it is another Peter paying paul scam.

[Revolver6]

Originally Posted by Hopeful Cynic

What some of the people who promote programs like this already know is that there have been literally thousands of "advertising" companies just like this one. What some of the people promoting programs like this one already know is that the vast majority of the people who join will lose money. What some of the people who promote programs like this one already know is that if they get their money in fast, recruit and promote like mad, and get their money out before the program collapses (or gets shut down by the government), they can make money. What those promoters do not care about is how many people they need to lie to in order to make their profits.

Can anyone singing the praises of this company explain how ad-ventures4u is any different from Ad Surf Daily, 12DailyPro, PheonixSurf, C.E.P or any of the others in that very long line of internet "advertising" programs that the government closed down because they were in fact ponzi schemes? Or any different from Megalido, Surf180, Ad-Market, EasyProfitSurf or any of the other in the INCREDIBLY long line of "advertising" companies that collapsed taking peoples money with them even before the government got around to shutting them down?

Right on cynic. Hit the nail.

Same scam different name.
Some people never learn.

The fact that some people can make money in these
programs doesn't make them legit.
Though it explains why people continue to play
these 'games' even after it's proven they all eventually
fail.

[Brewerfan68]

Originally Posted by alasycia

It is illegal in the US and many other western countries to pay old members with new members funds. That constitutes a ponzi. The fact that Steve has registered ad-ventures4U offshore in Panama will NOT protect them or the members if they are US citizens and subject to US laws.

Hi,

I just did a WHOIS lookup. Where are you seeing this site being based in Panama? Looks like Missouri to me.

[alasycia]

Originally Posted by Brewerfan68

Hi,

I just did a WHOIS lookup. Where are you seeing this site being based in Panama? Looks like Missouri to me.

NOTICE WE MOVED TO PANAMA FEB 1ST-2009 YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED ANY INCOME--YOU ARE PURCHASING ADVERTISING

From their home page

http://ad-ventures4u.com/

[Brewerfan68]

Thanks for pointing that out to me. Just read it myself. Wonder why the webpage is still US based and WHOIS is showing Missouri.

If they moved to Panama wouldn't they have to change their webprovider/domain etc.?

[CHATEEAU]

sorry, you're incorrect !
it is a legitimate site.
i've been paid every week from there.

[lawsoncc]

Absolutely not a scam. This is the only site on the internet that I'm making money from. I get approx. 324% return each week. It is a family run site. You have access to their contact info. I recommend this site to everyone.

You can purchase a venture for as little as $10 to see how much you can earn. Payouts are weekly. Think a minimum of $15.

I've requested one payout and received it next day.

Have to surf 25 sites per day to maximize earnings.

I LOVE ad-ventures4U!

[myglobalresults]

Originally Posted by lawsoncc

Absolutely not a scam. This is the only site on the internet that I'm making money from. I get approx. 324% return each week. It is a family run site. You have access to their contact info. I recommend this site to everyone.

You can purchase a venture for as little as $10 to see how much you can earn. Payouts are weekly. Think a minimum of $15.

I've requested one payout and received it next day.

Have to surf 25 sites per day to maximize earnings.

I LOVE ad-ventures4U!

lawsoncc OK great can you please explain or shed some light on how they have managed to get U the I get approx. 324% return each week.

Or are U like most who don't care or want to know?

because maybe Peter will lose out from paying Paul.

[Hopeful Cynic]

Originally Posted by CHATEEAU

sorry, you're incorrect !
it is a legitimate site.
i've been paid every week from there.

It should be noted that Charles Ponzi paid out every single investor exactly as promised for as long as he had the money to do so, as did Bernie Madoff for that matter. The problem is that every dollar they bring in carries with it a commitment to pay out more than one dollar and no ponzi scheme can continue to attract fresh capital forever. At some point the requests for cash outs exceeds the cash paid in and then nobody gets paid anymore.

It's a mathematical certainty and just a matter of time.

[myglobalresults]

Originally Posted by Hopeful Cynic

It should be noted that Charles Ponzi paid out every single investor exactly as promised for as long as he had the money to do so, as did Bernie Madoff for that matter. The problem is that every dollar they bring in carries with it a commitment to pay out more than one dollar and no ponzi scheme can continue to attract fresh capital forever. At some point the requests for cash outs exceeds the cash paid in and then nobody gets paid anymore.

It's a mathematical certainty and just a matter of time.

U are correct.

lawsoncc are you around or having trouble sleeping?

[alasycia]

Sadly the fact that the owner of the business is a nice guy and trying to do his best is neither here nor there.

The basic business model is both illegal and unsustainanable.

In order to be sustainable it needs sufficient outside revenue to pay the liabilities created by the ad-ventures from Day One. Steve is trying to sort out outside revenue, but as far as we are aware, sufficient amounts to pay out on the ad-ventures without using new members money was not in place at the start.

In order to be legal (apart from not using new members money to pay old money) it also has to show that the product (advertising) has intrinsic value, apart from any returns that may be given. That is to say, it is worth 10$ for 100 hits on a relatively low member Rotator (i.e less than half a million people). If it cant show this, then it falls in the trap of selling unregistered securities.

Moving offshore doesnt help either, if US citizens are involved, either running it or as members.

If it is true that Steve Ray Smith is all that everyone says he is, it is a pity that someone with such a stong wish to reward people on the net chose the autosurf "industry" as his busines of choice.

[alfonsoruiz]

For those who are given negatives commentaries about ad ventures 4u. Just let me ask you, are you making money online? Could you prove that?

If you'll ask to any member here if they are making money the answer will be a big YES OF COURSE!! and we have the proof.

I tried many companies for 3 years i'm talking about legal companies like gdi, success university etc, and make zero money, nada!

Now i been working for 4 months with ad ventures 4u and making good money. The owner Steve Smith and family are the best customer service online.

[Hopeful Cynic]

For all those giving positing positive commentary about ad-ventures4u, just let me ask you if you think it's possible for a program to pay people at the start but stop paying them later? But why would a great money making opportunity like this stop paying you might ask, well that might take a little explaining so please bare with me.

Does anyone think ad4u is unique? Does anyone think there have not been hundreds if not thousands of programs just like ad4u before? I'm sorry to tell you that your misinformed. Why have you never heard of all the others? Well perhaps you are new to this scene and the person who introduced you to it didn't want to scare you.

That's really the most dangerous part of this game, the people who promote these programs generally do know the real risks involved, it's seldom their first time at this particular rodeo and what they know is that these things do not last.

They know every bit as well as I do that there is no (or very close to no) money generating economic activity going on here. Every dollar that gets paid out comes from someone else paying money in. These might be the "salad days" for ad4u, the payouts are fast and the daily profits are high, but all that means is that more people are putting money into the game than are taking it out.

But please be aware, it will not last. For every dollar that ad4u takes in it promises (or strongly implies) that more than one dollar will be paid out and at some point the daily percentage will start to fall. As it falls enthusiasm for the program will diminish and recruiting/reinvestment will slow down. As the cash inflow continues to decrease the incentive to leave your money in the system diminishes. More people ask for cashouts but less money is coming in, very soon cashouts slow down.

As it gets harder and harder to get your cash out more and more people get nervous and ask for at least some of their money. By this time only the most vicious and least scrupulous people continue to recruit new members and suddenly next to no money is coming in (or being reinvested) and anyone with any sense as asking for their money back.

By this time it's too late, the money's gone and all the fantastic profits displayed on your computer monitor are nothing but electrons on a screen.

Before you tell me that will never happen to ad-ventures4u let me ask my questions again. Do you think it's unique? Don't you know there have been thousands of programs just like it? Do you know what happened (or is happening) to each and every one of those other programs?

[myglobalresults]

Hopeful great points. I find it fascinating how people will continue to do things despite the results of there actions.

This is a scam no one who is promoting this is able to provide any evidence or proof of there ability to generate any outside revenue.

The most important family is yours and not there's you will be better off by not giving this scam your money.

[alasycia]

Guys, geting paid on time FOR NOW, is not the key to legality nor to sustainability. Ask anyone in the now defunct ASD, or the faltering AVGA, amongst others. (and any of Bernie Madoff's ex clients who made money before he confessed to running a ponzi)

Without substanital outside revenue, adventures4u will not be able to continue to pay out at the level they are paying now. rigbht now nearly all the money paid out comes from the new members joining. They seem to be joining fast at present, which means there are even more liabilities accruuing for AdVentures4U.

This is not about Steve Ray Smith's integrity or his wish to share wealth. This is about his choice of business model, which is neither legal nor sustainable. Without a solid advertising model behind it, AdVentures4 U is no more than yet another site selling unregistered securities and, for now, paying old members with new members money. Why would he move it to Panama otherwise?

[myglobalresults]

Originally Posted by alasycia

Guys, geting paid on time FOR NOW, is not the key to legality nor to sustainability. Ask anyone in the now defunct ASD, or the faltering AVGA, amongst others. (and any of Bernie Madoff's ex clients who made money before he confessed to running a ponzi)

Without substanital outside revenue, adventures4u will not be able to continue to pay out at the level they are paying now. rigbht now nearly all the money paid out comes from the new members joining. They seem to be joining fast at present, which means there are even more liabilities accruuing for AdVentures4U.

This is not about Steve Ray Smith's integrity or his wish to share wealth. This is about his choice of business model, which is neither legal nor sustainable. Without a solid advertising model behind it, AdVentures4 U is no more than yet another site selling unregistered securities and, for now, paying old members with new members money. Why would he move it to Panama otherwise?

Yes very true. The more people that join the harder and quicker this will go down the toilet.

It is a matter of time those that gone in sooner should be sending thank you to all the suckers coming in now or in the last few months.

[jayccel]

The question is, is anybody getting paid. And the answer is, yes. All people can tell you is what's going on presently and presently their getting paid. Whether this continues or not, remains to be seen. I hope so.

[myglobalresults]

Originally Posted by jayccel

The question is, is anybody getting paid. And the answer is, yes. All people can tell you is what's going on presently and presently their getting paid. Whether this continues or not, remains to be seen. I hope so.

"I was wondering if anybody signed-up for ad-ventures4u.com and if they actually pay you or it is just another scam."

I think you forgot the last part of the question so Posted it up above and yes it is a scam.

Just because your getting paid does not mean it is not a scam.

[alasycia]

Originally Posted by myglobalresults

"I was wondering if anybody signed-up for ad-ventures4u.com and if they actually pay you or it is just another scam."

I think you forgot the last part of the question so Posted it up above and yes it is a scam.

Just because your getting paid does not mean it is not a scam.

People will continue to get paid as long as there is new money coming in to pay them. If the liabilities (unguaranteed, yes we know that) keep increasing as fast as they are at present, with lots of new members joining, then, sooner or later, the amount paid per ad venture will have to reduce. Unless Steve has sufficient outside revenue coming in, then the problems will start. People will protest at the reduction in their money making and less people will stop joining, reducing the income even more...

It will then implode or something will happen. This happened already with Noobing - they started off paying out well and then reduced payments to such an extent that "the faithful" started calling it a scam. Funnily, all they did was go from illegal to legal - and enforced their ToS.

If you take the word "scam" to mean a business that was started off with fraudulent intent - then I can understand the protests from people who say that Steve Ray Smith is an honest admin. However, his operation, whatever his intentions, is based on an illegal and unsustainable model. And being registered in Panama offers no protection from the law if any US citizens are involved.

IF and only if Steve's plans for outside revenue are succesful, then he may be able to continue to maintain the payouts at a reasonable level. However, this will still not protect him from charges of selling unregistered securities and, therefore, US government intervention, with the ASD/CEP/PheonixSurf etc history to show us what can happen to both Steve and his family and to the leading members.

This programme is sadly in a no-win situation.

[lawsoncc]

It would be just like the US govt to intervene in the one site that is successful for its members and do absolutely nothing to all the sites that quite frankly just steal your money by flat out lying. They've been so good at protecting us from the scammers so far.

My "safe?" savings account at the bank pays .09% interest. That's 45 cents a year on $500. If Ad-Ventures4U stays in business for 6 months, and I withdraw 1/2 my earnings each week, I will have recouped the $500 + $29 at previous earnings levels in 21 weeks AND have double my money still earning. If the earnings decrease, it will take longer. If the site closes shop, I will lose my the amount I haven't withdrawn. There is absolutely risk.

I put 6% of my salary into a 401K every month, matched by my company, and my balance has done nothing but decline for the past several months. I'm going to use my AIG stock for wrapping paper this year because it is currently cheaper than wrapping paper. Will my 401K turn around or am I throwing good money after bad? Who knows for sure. And we all know how well govt intervention has protected investors from losses/fraud with registered, legal securities.

There is risk in everything. I took a chance with an initial venture at Ad-Ventures4U, then added to it just as you described because my results were good. The profits may not be sustainable, but I'm still willing to take a risk on a couple hundred $ because of my current results. I took a chance on a lot of other sites that have yielded absolutely nothing.

Maybe it is not sustainable, and I'll eat crow, but right now looks more like steak than crow. And while I would not recommend that anyone put their life's savings into these ventures, I would certainly recommend the purchase of ventures because right now they are paying well.

I appreciate healthy skepticism, but still love my returns from Ad-Ventures4U!

[alasycia]

Maybe it is not sustainable, and I'll eat crow, but right now looks more like steak than crow. And while I would not recommend that anyone put their life's savings into these ventures, I would certainly recommend the purchase of ventures because right now they are paying well.

I appreciate healthy skepticism, but still love my returns from Ad-Ventures4U!

Yes, it is paying right now. Every day Steve Smith sends out an email or two encouraging people to buy more adventure, with real money. New people are joining in large numbers.

BUT..the money that is being paid out is still the money received from new members. Every new members adds a new liability for ad-ventures4u. Every new member will want to be paid too and there are a lot of them. Unless or until Steve finds a very large source of outside revenue very soon, a lot more people will want to be paid out and without a lot more new members, there wont be sufficient money to pay them all at the present rate. Then the downward spiral starts.

Lawsoncc, you sound as if you know what you have gotten into - so doesn't it bother you that the money you are receiving comes from new members purchases and that this will not go on forever?. The newer members are the ones who may never see their money back.

Don't you realise that this is WHY these schemes are considered ponzis and are, consequently, illegal. It has nothing to do with the honesty or lack of it of the owners, it is because paying old members with new members money is unsustainable in the medium long term.

ASD thought they would go on forever with an infinite number of new members. When the Secret Service raided them, it is estimated that there was around 93$ million dollars "in the bank", but there were over 300$ million dollars in liabilities created in their last money raising activities, plus all the liaibilities already due to members. They used the arguement that there were an indefinite number of future " new members" to keep it going, in addition to supposed outside revenue.

But it doesnt work like that. As returns fall, new members stop joining and the returns fall even further until the programme collapses.

In the ASD case there was also dishonesty involved, but this only means that there may be even more liabilties to members than known ast present. Honesty will not save ad-ventures4u from running into exactly the same problems, as have all autosurf models before them. And it will leave the newer members without their money.

In the ASD case, the Government intervened and got hold of at least a part of the money, before it was all paid out., and to date, many people have lost their money If they had not intervened, the situation would have been even worse. Within a very short period of time the prgramme would have collapsed under its own weight with nothing to share out to the losers.

Steve may have honest intentions, but then he is naive. His programme is filling up with "players" who are in it for a fast and unrealistically high return (levels that even Maddoff didn't promise) and his offshore registration will not help anyone, as long as US citizens are involved.

Please do not be persuaded to join any scheme or business of this nature by unrealistic and impossible returns. At best it will implode and the people in your downline will lose their money. At worst, it will be closed down and the people who have already recouped their money will be subject to claw back proceedings and maybe criminal charges.

[galaxy7]

Originally Posted by heartstar12

To some people everything sounds like a scam, and those people never make any money, because they never believe it's possible to make much money quickly and easily.

But that's okay, because for everything that is for real, even for a season, there's a hundred other things that take people's money and run.

I know Steve Ray Smith, the owner of ad-ventures4u.com personally. I also worked for him for awhile.

He's an honest person who's willing to be identified. Everyone knows his real name and where he lives. He keeps members updated everyday. He's paid weekly and on time since this program began in January.

Will it last forever. No one knows. But I know Steve and his family are putting their lives into this, and working harder than anyone who yells "scam."

Do you call an offline start-up company that's selling shares a scam? Does it sound too good to be true that a few people who bought dollar shares in Sony and other such names when they began are mutli-millionaires now?

All I know is that this guy and his family are for real and he's attaching other businesses from which 90% of those revenues will go into member's pockets, not his.

The reason this programs now has 17,000 members is that Steve did what he said he would do, kept paying people on time, and took less money for himself, because he cares.

If anyone wants to see a real scam in action, take a look at the history of the Federal Reserve and the bankers who run this country and our presidents.

Or take a look at our social security system.

Steve trying to establish a real online business that provides real useful advertising and other services and products to come.

So far, he's succeeded beyond my expectations. If I thought it was a scam, I wouldn't have put $14,000 of my own money into this.

If the business someday isn't able to reach Traffic Swarm status and endure, he and his family will have done their best. And, I don't call that a scam either.

The biggest names in network marketing are in ad-ventures4u.com now. Would they join a scam?

I've been in scams, and lost 10's of thousands of dollars. And I got pretty depressed over it for awhile, but I got over it. You know why, because I'm not working like a little slave for peanuts pay anymore for employers who live in their little palaces while they pay their help as little as possible.

The God and Goddess I believe in, help people when they ask, and don't expect humans to live like little slaves.

The internet gives people a chance they wouldn't have. Yes, it's full of liars and thieves, and scams. But an honest person and his family trying their best to succeed and help other do the same is not a scam.

If ad-ventures4u.com should fail someday. Go ahead and yell and whine scam. I say Steve did his best, because that's what he's about. His best for others.

Eric Christopherson

Eric, Thats the spirit! I started Ad-ventures4u with $500. on 07/01/09. It's going along as smooth as ever. You can e-mail me anytimeLets stay in touch. galaxy7

[Hopeful Cynic]

For such an honest man Steven Smith sure gets involved with a lot of scams.

From the "YatBo" free classifieds website:

gfl100.com is (was) a "cash gifting" website. It's a naked pyramid scheme which hopes to pretend to be legal because they call it a "gift" when you send someone money. These things never last for long, you need to keep finding new greedy and gullible people willing to "gift" you with $100-$250-$500 or $1,000 with the hopes of receiving all their money back and much more by finding even more greedy and gullible people to "gift" them. Needless to say gfl100.com is no longer online. Scams like this don't last very long.

But that did give us another of Steve's e-mail addys, srstls2007@yahoo.com. Does anyone remember those old chain letters? The kind where you scratch the top name of the list, add your name to the bottom and mail the letter out to the new top name, along with some cash. Why pay postage in this day of e-mail:

"IT WAS PROVEN ON OPRAH, DATELINE & NATIONAL TV.

THIS IS COMPLETELY LEGAL!"


This is almost funny, it's such a cheap ass con game but the "honest" Mr. Smith not only joined this scam, but if you check the five e-mail addys in the list, at least two of them are his. So not only is he participating in (yet another) scam, he's even ripping off his fellow scammers.

BE HONEST and SUPER HONEST so that it WORKS!!!!

Now this one didn't work out too well, perhaps Steve wasn't honest (or SUPER honest) enough.

[alasycia]

Originally Posted by Hopeful Cynic

For such an honest man Steven Smith sure gets involved with a lot of scams.

From the "YatBo" free classifieds website:

gfl100.com is (was) a "cash gifting" website. It's a naked pyramid scheme which hopes to pretend to be legal because they call it a "gift" when you send someone money. These things never last for long, you need to keep finding new greedy and gullible people willing to "gift" you with $100-$250-$500 or $1,000 with the hopes of receiving all their money back and much more by finding even more greedy and gullible people to "gift" them. Needless to say gfl100.com is no longer online. Scams like this don't last very long.

But that did give us another of Steve's e-mail addys, srstls2007@yahoo.com. Does anyone remember those old chain letters? The kind where you scratch the top name of the list, add your name to the bottom and mail the letter out to the new top name, along with some cash. Why pay postage in this day of e-mail:

"IT WAS PROVEN ON OPRAH, DATELINE & NATIONAL TV.

THIS IS COMPLETELY LEGAL!"


This is almost funny, it's such a cheap ass con game but the "honest" Mr. Smith not only joined this scam, but if you check the five e-mail addys in the list, at least two of them are his. So not only is he participating in (yet another) scam, he's even ripping off his fellow scammers.




Now this one didn't work out too well, perhaps Steve wasn't honest (or SUPER honest) enough.

Thanks for that great bit of research HC. With a name like Steve Ray Smith, it has been hard to trace exactly which Steve Ray Smith was running this scheme.

Out of the previous schemes he was in, that you have posted, one is a well known scam and is 100% illegal (The Oprah/paypal scam) and the gifting sites are well known for their ponzi like attributes, not to mention their illegality., and that is only looking at two of them.

No wonder he reckons he has been scammed in the past. He doesnt seem very discerning about the programmes he has joined.

Having been part of another autosurf (sorry, advertising) business run by an "honest man" Thomas Andy Bowdoin of ASD, I think that one sadly needs proof of honesty in business these days.

[heartstar12]

I'm looking forward to the cash for gold service that will also further boost Ad-Ventures4u revenue sharing. It doesn't cost members any extra money, but it will help all of us. I also just wanted to tell the cynics, that I genuinely appreciate their info. and points of view also. My occupation hero's are the farmers, plumbers, electricians and carpenters and teachers etc. who go to work everyday and provide services we all benefit from. But, I'm grateful to Steve for starting ADV4U, because it has helped me pay off so many debts, and I'm hoping they'll all be paid off soon. ASD didn't do what Steve is attempting to do by attaching several other businesses to reward members for their investment. Is it a scam when an off-line business starts up and sells stock in the company and then goes bankrupt a year or two later, which most do? Think about this. Most off-line businesses fail, just like most online businesses fail. I look at this whole senario as us members being shareholders, and Steve is the CEO, and we're really excited. The cynics aren't paying me any money, and they don't have any plan, except to try to tear programs down, which is fine, because it makes even more people join, everytime they write something more negative. Steve's been paying me every week since January, you cynic friends haven't given me a dime. I think the cynics need to come up with their own program to help themselves and other people they wish to save from scams. I don't need a cynic telling me what to do with my money because they aren't my mommy. I'm not trying to be mean to you cynics. Keep posting

[Hopeful Cynic]

Welcome back heartstar, I thought you bowed out of this thread? Every ponzi scheme pays off it's early investors and in your role as a promoter of adv4u I have little doubt you'll come out in the green, no matter how many people need to lose their money to make that happen.

You've already told us about all the scam programs you have lost money to before. This isn't exactly your first time at the rodeo now is it?

This gets into a rather psychological question I've been pondering for some time. Take two people, both get scammed and repeatedly lose money in "get rich quick" schemes. One of them realizes that they've been a willing victim and try to identify the patterns of deception that they fell prey to in hopes of avoiding getting scammed again. The other person realizes that they've been a willing victim and try to identify the patterns of deception that they fell prey to in hopes of using those same techniques to scam other people.

Heartstar, why are you that second person? You know the pain and loss, not only of money but that loss of trust. Having your hopes and aspirations abused by cunning manipulators who trade their better human qualities for the pittance of cash they can pry from your pocket. You have in your own words fallen prey to just such people, but instead of apposing them you've joined them. May I ask why?


As to "honest" Steve Smith's new cash for gold website, does it bother anyone that Steve is asking people to send him their unwanted gold and silver items to a completely unregistered and unregulated company? Hell the word "company" is something of an overstatement in this regard. We have a web address ( tradinggold4cash dot com), we have Steve’s contact information and those of his business partner Mitch Ripke. What we don’t have is a company name. tradinggold4cash dot com is not registered with the State of Missouri (or Mitch’s home state of Oregon), the Better Business Bureau has no listing for tradinggold4cash dot com. All we have is honest Steve’s word of honor about the whole deal, but that’s good enough for you heartstar, isn’t it? It must be because ad-ventures4u.com doesn’t display a company name either, so why are we to conclude they are a registered business when they don’t tell us what name their business is registered under?

This is just a side reflection, and understand I don’t work for the IRS, but it seems Steve is fond of running businesses without any license or regulation. Given what types of businesses he’s fond of running, avoiding any sort of government attention seems like a sensible precaution. But what are the chances he also likes to run them without paying his taxes? Income from less than legal sources is still taxable income, just ask Al Capone.

[heartstar12]

Hi Hopeful Cynic,

Yes, I left this thread, but needed to come back today to downgrade my account info. in the control panel, because people are continuing to contact me, and I know this may surprise you, but I'm not promoting any programs right now, even though several are doing well. You've always thought of me as a promoter, but I'm not really. Am fairly clueless about how to market anything.

I joined ADV4U, because I knew Steve and liked him, and I felt he has a chance of building something enduring, and like many people, I needed more money quickly.

Because I had lost so much money last year, I joined a few more programs this year to regain, and am grateful am almost there. By the way, I didn't lose that money on revenue sharing programs.

I'm not opposed to your reasoning. If it makes you feel any better. These actually are the last online opportunities I am doing, because I feel the risk is too high overall for me to join new programs, and because I'm able to work with friends I care deeply about in their offline businesses such as a bakery, cafe, and construction crews with proceeds to help people have a new life.

Yes, a couple years ago, had I to do it all over again, I wouldn't have even bought a computer or joined any online program.

I've made my share of mistakes in life's journey, and I know that when people are at the bottom, many will search for ways to climb up. It could be high-risk online opportunities. It could be anything.

I wish you happiness in what ever you find meaningful. I do appreciate your questions and observations. But it seems like you've concluded Steve is a con. That's not the person I've come to know, or his son.

I really believe they have a decent chance of adding enough income from other sources to continue to pay members long-term, just like more successful offline businesses pay investors.




take care,
Eric

[Hopeful Cynic]

Heartstar, perhaps we have a different definition of what a “promoter” is. I see you singing the praises of adv4u in this thread but I also see you doing it over at talk gold, ASA, dreamteam money, affiliatedproductnetwork, effyis and the dailyprofitpond forum. Forgive me if I missed a few. I’m not sure how you see it but in my book that pretty much makes you a promoter.

Please believe me when I tell you I can understand your growing frustrations with all these shady online get rich quick schemes. Most of the people who join them lose money, very few of the people who do make money do so without lying their asses off and no one makes money in them without breaking the law. I’m glad you are choosing to pursue legitimate employment instead.

Steven Smith might be one hell of a guy, I wouldn’t know. I do know he has run several online scams in the last few years, gifting programs, e-mail chain letters, simple, easy and stupid scams. You tell us what an honest, hard working family man he is, but he keeps running scams. It also bothers me that he gives no company names for the “programs” he’s running. The BBB generally doesn’t maintain files on companies that are not registered to do business. The BBB has no files on Steve’s various ventures. You seem to know him well, next time you speak to him please ask him what company name he files his taxes under. When he gives you an answer please do share it with us.

One last (minor) point. You said:

By the way, I didn't lose that money on revenue sharing programs.

Then I take it you didn’t invest anything in Ad Surf daily. ASD was every bit as much a “revenue sharing” program as adv4u is, and in exactly the same way. And loads of people lost money in ASD.

[mlmoverachiever]

Ad-ventures has already started paying me...definately not a scam. I am combining it with my two primary business and it is working out great.

[alasycia]

Once again, Steve Ray Smith's honest intentions are not the issue here and neither is the fact that he is still paying out to members.

The reason that some of us are protesting so vigorously about AdVentures4U is because the business model itself is

(a) illegal, because it is presently using new members money to pay old members and

(b)unsustainable in the long term. It's rate of growth at present is fast, and that means that its liabilities to members are growing fast too and that threatens its medium term sustainability too.

(c) without intrinsic value to the product (advertising?) it also contravenes the SEC regulations for selling unregistered securities. .

Whatever outside streams of income that Steve can produce, through his gold selling project or whatever else, it will have to be a very very large sum of money to pay out the kind of liabilities AdVentures 4U is going to have shortly, if it doesnt already have them.

On the subject of the gold site - it really does strike me as a little odd. AdV4U is asking people to send in items of gold to be processed. I am sure there must be a list of licenses necessary in order to start this kind of trading and many regulations.

Prudent members will be asking for some kind of proof that their valuable x carat gold is safe and its value fairly assessed.

This is usually pretty specialized work, done by professionals. So far, Steve has not given any information to indicate that there are precious metal specialists involved with AdV4U. Just on the reading of the various articles and emails on the topic, it sounds like amateurs night out and thus, can be fraught with difficulties all round.

[heartstar12]

I really appreciate all the comments here.
Hi Cynic, yes I can understand about the my promoting issue.

Some months ago, I worked for Steve, but of my own accord did post on about 8 or so forums. I made very little referral money doing this, but did it to help the program. Because I was so busy approving websites and checking for submitted websites violations, and emailing members their passwords, I was not able to get to most of the forums more than a couple times, with the exception of TalkGold and maybe a couple others, which I responded to since.

So, you're correct, that was promoting, and I'm sorry being misleading about that. I really had put it out of my mind. I don't like promoting any of these programs, but I have been fired up about ADV4U with the idea that Steve could do what few others have been able to do.

I am in GoldNuggetInvest which has been going for two years, and I think there's a good chance with their arbitrage gambling, that they can actually make enough money to pay people indefinitely, but we'll have to see if they can, or if it's another storyline.

I stopped working for Steve, mainly because I was overwhelmed with the work load that I had taken on, working with no days off from 8-9am-1am every day with a few hours off here and there.

I also had many people calling and emailing me with questions about the program, their passwords, their ads, and accounts.

I wasn't comfortable being an admin.

To those of you critical of ADV4U and similar programs. I understand what you are saying better. I started looking online for something after my 65hr. per week security job was gone. I worked every day except my anniversary, for 4-5 years. To be honest, I think greed and the lure of easy money promoted me to begin the online search, and I just didn't know what I would do for work at the time.

I joined several cash-gifting programs. And am not favorable to them, because most of the people who join them, for several reasons, make no money. I know two people that make $12,000-15,000 monthly and they think me foolish to not join in, but I don't, especially after one sponsor admitted to me 29 out of 30 people make no money. I believe this is because people have to advertise in some way, talk to people/sell, and they have a conscience. Somehow, getting alot of money, and not providing a real service or product in return doesn't go well with having a clear conscience I think.

With ADV4U, I have felt the advertising was a decent product, but given the ASD you mentioned, I understand why you feel different, and the other reasons you explained.

I've had people tell me that it doesn't make any difference if people don't make money after you told them what to do and they don't do it etc. But, it does make a difference to me. I actually refunded all the money back to the only person who joined me in one of those cash-gifting programs when he was unhappy with his decision.

Before 2008, I had not done any opportunities since about 1995 when I had briefly tried various MLM programs with very sad results and a bitter taste in my mouth about such things.

Looking at my overall experience with any MLM, cash-gifting, HYIP's of any kind, like I said, in retrospect, I wouldn't mess with any of it. Because I feel it's all gambling, and the winners win at the many losers expense.

This is the better side of me talking, that wants what is best for all concerned. And, that's who I wish to be.

I feel I went overboard with some of my glowing comments about ADV4U and revenue sharing. I like the idea and I'm still hoping Steve can do what seems impossible the next couple years.

I have talked previously with the Mitch man about the gold refining. Mitch is a junior partner with Steve in this, and they have purchased their own smelter which eliminates a middle man. He seemed real to me and had already been involved in this type of business.

I feel at the very least, it won't be any worse than that Cash4Gold service you see on TV. I can attest that is a rip-off. I sent some things in. There was no "guarantee."

Steve has said with their gold-buying service, that after people send in what they wish to sell, they will be given a quote, and if the sellers don't think that's fair, they will send the jewelry back to them. That sounded good to me.

As far as selling your gold jewelry to anyone, you never get what you think you should, from anyone. As far as I'm concerned, no one ever fairly assesses gold, you always get less. But because Steve has his own smelter, I feel people will get above average.

Please know, at this point, after all you have had to say in detail. I'm not here to defend Steve. He can do that if he wishes. I appreciate all the information that has been shared.

I still have that hope that Steve would be able to bring in enough income to continue to pay members forever, even if the weekly percentage needed to come down some. I know some of you may think me a fool or idealistic. I understand. Maybe I'm both.

All this being said, I understand, that if he fails, it would be the same old story of the last losers paying all the winners.
And that brings me no happiness

About ASD, no I never joined it or knew much about it, until it went down and other people started telling me about it.

I think another reason people look to online opportunities is they just don't want to work or work for someone. But, then there's other people that can't work, or are raising children by themselves.

Most online opportunities do seem like a pack of lies at the end of the day.
Steve was nice to me, and has always seemed like he wanted to do something good for people. We don't talk much anymore. He's busy with ADV4U and I going in a different direction with my life.

It is very disturbing what some of you have mentioned about past scams and chain letters and such. Why do they call it the Oprah letter. Did she start it? That doesn't sound right. And why would Steve be involved with something like that?

Well, I think we all can agree, it's going to be interesting what comes about in time. There's a tremendous excitement about ADV4U, so far the momentum just seems to keep building. Is that what you all see right now with the numbers and math?

For myself, I started washing dishes today at the cafe my friends operate, and gradually learning to prepare foods. It's not a big money-maker for any of us, but customers receive very healthy delicious food for a very fair price. So buyer and seller are truly happy, day after day, year after year, based upon work and service and real product. Yes, I said the dirty little 4 letter word: work. Imagine, people actually doing manual labor. What online opportunity person would want such a life?

Take care,
Eric

[heartstar12]

I don't know if anyone wishes to comment on this, but several revenue sharing programs have adopted Steve's 200% ADV4U model and the "hit and run" clause. Am not that good with math or these programs models, but what are the implications? Like going from a 125% or 150% model to 200%?

Also, for those of you not in ADV4U and such, have you ever found any online opportunities you liked. Somthing that would be good for the elderly, disabled, or single moms?