Ignite, Inc.

[Teacherlady]

I have been approached to join Ignite ******. I have read the other Ignite threads here. I have viewed the Ignite DVD, spoken at length with the "upline", and spent considerable time on understanding the structure, compensation package, and contracts. I understand that it is a Network marketing company, with all that entails.

Assuming that one is comfortable with the whole MLM concept, it looks to me like Ignite beats most MLMs because:
1) its product is universally used (no need to convert users to your product)
2) there's no inventory which must be bought, paid for, and delivered (whew)
3) I cannot drop in "rank", even if people under me drop out.
4) compensation is miniscule but cumulative: 25 cents per bill ain't much, but if you're earning off 1000+ bills, it adds up.

Now, I have not signed up yet, and I do not expect to make $8,000 a month. I simply want to supplement my teacher's salary and pay off some bills. I do not dream of fantastic wealth and vacations in exotic lands. I dream of being able to afford to buy bicycles for my kids for Christmas. I do not, in other words, have my head in the clouds here.

My "upline" has cleared their initial investment and earned close to $1,200 in four months. Each week, his checks go up slightly. In the meantime he has saved about $60 on his personal electric bill, as have the people he signed up. I have the added advantage of being acquainted with some (not all) of the Dallas-based businessmen who started this up, and knowing them to be decent and hard working men.

I am interested in hearing from others who have decided to join up with Ignite: how's it going? How do most of the people you approach respond? How many meetings do you go to or sponsor in an average week? How well attended are those meetings? How long did it take you to earn back your initial investment? How long did it take you to advance, and what level are you on now? I'd like to hear the stories (good, bad, or indifferent) of others in this company.

Thanks for taking your time to answer me.

Teacherlady

[linda49]

If you've read the other posts on this subject why start a new thread? Seems to me the term you've used ("people under me") says it all.

[cheappower1]

teacher,
I have been in IGNITE for 5 months and I'm about to go full time. I think you hit on the good points, we are saving people money on something that they all use anyway, and nothing else changes for them. Also, prices will continue to go through the roof, IMO, for the forseeable future.

I think the best way to approach people is to just ask them to come to a presentation, don't try to over-explain it to them over the phone, get them to SEE it. If you are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, you have a multitude of great meetings to get to. The more you can see the better, until you have a working understanding of how things work. I think one of the biggest downfalls of most MLM is dis-information, either conciously (just wait, they will be coming in this thread), or unconciously (someone trying to explain something that they don't understand yet, aka: a new director). Get your new people to the presentations and let them explain it.

I made my initial investment back in about 5 weeks. I am now an MD and I think I'll be making SD by the end of the year. December could be alot of fun since they are doubling the leadership bonus' for everyone.
As for you, if you think you are going to do this, why not sign up today or tomorrow and get the extra $100 for getting you first 4 customers in 30 days?

One thing you said: 4) compensation is miniscule but cumulative: 25 cents per bill ain't much, but if you're earning off 1000+ bills, it adds up. Actually .25 is the least you will get paid on any customer and that is only on you first level in your director downline. Remember me talking about unconcious misinformation? On your 5th level you're making $3.00 per customer.

Let me know if you have any questions. What part of the state are you in if you don't mind me asking? You can PM me if you want.

Good Luck!!

[Soapboxmom]

Cheap*****,

We wouldn't want you to get lonely over here!

Linda49, we carefully evaluated this deal on 2 other threads. I would love to hear your take on it! Downline was just one of many things that gave me pause.

Teacherlady, I am glad to see you are carefully evaluating this venture. The threads here are good and you may also want to check out Quatloos.com. There are financial fraud experts there who will answer any specific concerns you may have. Happy investigating!

Soapboxmom

[linda49]

Soapboxmom - I'm honored that you asked. My take on this subject is very simple. There seems to be way too much ridiculous hype from some posts promoting this program - and - (as I've learned from the "best" on this site )"Where does the money come from?" It seems that some people have no problem with a rip-off as long as they are fairly sure they won't be the "last guy in" at the end who looses. Is that ironic? (not sure if the term applies) Promoting a scam on an anti-scam site and actually recruiting stupid people into it? I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and expertise in these matters. Your's truly - no people under me - no people on top of me - Linda

[Teacherlady]

Thanks to everyone who replied, no matter where you stand on this. I appreciate it, sincerely.

Just curious, in the investigations I have done so far, I do not see a rip off occuring. It does not seem to me that anyone is losing money or being made promises that are not kept. But I am open to learning more. Can you be more specific, Linda49, about what you feel is the specific problem with Ignite? Are you uncomfortable with the whole concept of "uplines" and "downlines" altogether ,or do you know something about the company that I should hear?

Thanks again everyone

[Teacherlady]

Originally Posted by linda49

If you've read the other posts on this subject why start a new thread? Seems to me the term you've used ("people under me") says it all.

Linda49
Oooppps I am sorry, I meant to answer this and left it out. I started the new thread because the other two were so filled with Excel stuff. I just wanted to hear from some people (outside of the one trying to sign me up) who have tried this, and get some specifics. I prefer to weigh my options pretty seriously before committing to something, whether it's a new business idea like this or just a catalog order from Sears. So I was kind of hoping for some other points of view.

Thanks for your reply.

Cheap*****, I am in the Dallas area, and will try to go to one of the many meetings held around here. Thanks very much for your input.

Soapboxmom, thank you for the link to Quatloos. I will head over there next!

[linda49]

Teacherlady - I think yer doin' a little fishin'. Just sittin' at the side of the stream... tossin' yer line in... with a little bait - hopin' to catch a fish. I have one question for you. "Teacher" would imply that you have an education. Can you provide some hard evidence to prove your claims based on your investigations?

[cheappower1]

Originally Posted by Teacherlady

Linda49
Oooppps I am sorry, I meant to answer this and left it out. I started the new thread because the other two were so filled with Excel stuff. I just wanted to hear from some people (outside of the one trying to sign me up) who have tried this, and get some specifics. I prefer to weigh my options pretty seriously before committing to something, whether it's a new business idea like this or just a catalog order from Sears. So I was kind of hoping for some other points of view.

Thanks for your reply.

Cheap*****, I am in the Dallas area, and will try to go to one of the many meetings held around here. Thanks very much for your input.

Soapboxmom, thank you for the link to Quatloos. I will head over there next!

Teacher,
Didn't take long, did it?
I think one of the biggest downfalls of most MLM is dis-information, either conciously (just wait, they will be coming in this thread),

I consider posts referring to this as a scam, ect. to be dis-information. These people either don't have an understanding of the concept, or they have been burned before in another MLM and now they trash them all.

[Soapboxmom]

Sorry, Folks, but never have done MLM. I am a lady with a calculator, dictionary and a little common sense. The numbers speak for themselves. I guess the truth is costing you guys some downline, huh????

Soapboxmom

[MEL]

Originally Posted by linda49

Soapboxmom - I'm honored that you asked. My take on this subject is very simple. There seems to be way too much ridiculous hype from some posts promoting this program - and - (as I've learned from the "best" on this site )"Where does the money come from?" It seems that some people have no problem with a rip-off as long as they are fairly sure they won't be the "last guy in" at the end who looses. Is that ironic? (not sure if the term applies) Promoting a scam on an anti-scam site and actually recruiting stupid people into it? I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and expertise in these matters. Your's truly - no people under me - no people on top of me - Linda

Linda

I so glad you posted. I hope everyone can see how negative and self centered some people can be. Teacher writes in wanting people that have been involved with Ignite both pro and con to share what has gone with them. And you start right off with the negative trashing of people involved with Ignite.

"There seems to be way too much ridiculous hype from some posts promoting this program - and - (as I've learned from the "best" on this site )"Where does the money come from?""

What ridiculous hype? In the previous thread about Ignite myself and others have shared/wrote about what we have done with the program. So how is that ridiculous hype? I guess you have learned from the best spin doctor on this site because you are still spinning and trashing people about which you know nothing about. I mean you are in Canada, what do you know about our ****** prices here in TX? What do you know about ****** deregualtion here in this state? Why do you care?

It seems that some people have no problem with a rip-off as long as they are fairly sure they won't be the "last guy in" at the end who looses.

You know what I have a problem with is people who nothing about a subject and jumping in trying to stir up crap. I also have a problem with electricity companies raking their customers over the coals playing games with the numbers/rates and preying on their customers minds and hearts that they are the good guys.

You know I'm not worried about my IAs under me being last because I will do what I can to help them succeed in their business. In fact other coworkers who are inolved in this business I treat the same way even if they are not under me. It matters not to me since they are trying to better their lives (and their families) instead of taking shots at people on the internet on a scam site.

"Promoting a scam on an anti-scam site and actually recruiting stupid people into it? I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and expertise in these matters."

Again you and SBM and some others see it as a scam but maybe you can answer my questions without running and hiding behind some "705 Points of Light", or EXCELL dribble.

I asked some questions before of SBM (but I don't think she really answered them) let's see what you have to say.

I'll be right back.

[MEL]

I went back and reread the thread and SBM did indeed answer my second set of questions which a couple of us answered her responses, myself and I think Ignited.

However Linda please enlighten us.

So I'm trying to understand your line of reasoning, would you mind answering these five questions for me?

1) If I can help people save money on a product they already purchase, how is that bad?
2) If I can help them do this with little or no effort on their part, how is this bad?
3) If I can help others do the same (start collecting customers and business builders by helping others to save on their ****** bills) for a little (in the big scheme of things) investment and earn some extra money doing it, then how is that bad?
4) Would you agree that if the above questions were answered no (as in they are not bad) then how would that be a bad business module?
5) Do you know of another product or a company that would meet the same business module (basically questions 1-3)?

Now looking at this from a business model, not from Ignite, PC, or another MLM company. I'm talking about a business model. Please let us know if a comapny met these critera how would they be a scam?

Thanks

[linda49]

Mel - Don't get so upset. You are already very busy reducing ***** rates all across the U.S.A. - I'm sure that keeps you busy enough. By the way, how do you do it? The age old question is - Where does the money come from? Another is - Why is this a pyramid? Another - Why are you paid a percentage of someone else's labor? Oh, and the "Canadian" slam.....well, you are not very well informed on that issue, but don't lose any sleep over it... I won't.

[cheappower1]

Originally Posted by linda49

Mel - Don't get so upset. You are already very busy reducing ***** rates all across the U.S.A. - I'm sure that keeps you busy enough. By the way, how do you do it? The age old question is - Where does the money come from? Another is - Why is this a pyramid? Another - Why are you paid a percentage of someone else's labor? Oh, and the "Canadian" slam.....well, you are not very well informed on that issue, but don't lose any sleep over it... I won't.

Sorry Mel, let me help you out.
1. Where does the money come from? $329.00 comes in, $50 to the MD, $125 to the SD, $150 to the ED AS SOON AS THE CUSTOMERS ARE GATHERED IN A TIMELY MANNER! So they are bringing in $329, paying out $325 and getting at least two new customers. They are also bringing in $19.95/month for the website and I don't know one director that doesn't have it.

2. Why is this a pyramid? It's not!!! We get paid for gathering customers, not directors. We are selling something. Someone below me can make more $$$ than me. By definition that IS NOT A PYRAMID, but I'm pretty sure I can't convince you of that.

3. Why are you paid a percentage of someone else's labor? Well, it's called leverage! You forgot to mention that we all get paid on what we do also. I bet I can come up with a ton of companies where the office heads get paid on how well their work force does, but let's don't talk about that.

4. Canadian slam? Just now realized you're from canada, that explains alot. If you are talking about someone getting their electricity switched without their authorization, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!! This is our point exactly, you guys are knocking something that you have absolutely no understanding of, and it makes you looK fairly stupid. NOBODY GETS SWITCHED BEFORE THEY GET A PHONE CALL FROM QUALITY CONTROL!! There is no slamming!!

Do you have anything else, I can hardly wait, lol!!!

[Soapboxmom]

Cheap,

Your cheap shots and misstatements of facts ain't gonna fly here!

"2. Why is this a pyramid? It's not!!! We get paid for gathering customers, not directors. We are selling something. Someone below me can make more $$$ than me. By definition that IS NOT A PYRAMID, but I'm pretty sure I can't convince you of that."

you / partners / Customers/ Per customer / amount total
you 10
level 1 3 30 .25 $7.50
level 2 9 90 .50 $45.00
level 3 27 270 .75 $202.00
level 4 81 810 $1.00 $810.00
level 5 243 2430 $3.00 $7290.00
363 3640 The big bucks

This is elementary math compliments of Presley Swagerty. I will do the comp tables for MDs, SDs, and EDs if anyone is bored.

Let's use these figures as a fair representaion of the first year averages.
17,000 reps x $329 = $5,593,000
120,000 customers x $7.50 x 12 months = $10,800,000
$16,393,000 (we will assume the web fees and other business tools revenue goes to the top guys only)
$16,393,000 / 17,000 reps equally is $964.29 per year each. But..... we know the big goons make a killing and the little guys make nothing or pocket change.
100 folks could make $163,393 per year if no one else makes a dime.
200 folks could make $81,965 per year if no one else made a dime.
300 folks could make $54,643.33 per year if no one else makes a dime.
Let's take out 3 millionaires and see what the rest get--$787.82.per year..... So, where is the opportunity?????????????????

You are a pyramid where all the fees go upline when you sign up and unlimited monthly ****** income goes endlessly straright up the chain to the apex of said pyramid! Getting someone to sign up themselves and their Mama makes the payout (barely) legal. But, the fact it is legal does not mean it is not a pyramid scheme. If you are comfortable with this business model--- its the USA go do it. But, I won't sit back while you misrepresent this opportunity. A substantial downline is required to earn enough to break even and the only game is recruit, recruit, recruit........The product or service is a side issue and we already know that the vast majority, by design won't make any money! Now, we may be in Texas, but I don't want to hear any more tales that tall!!!!!!!!!!

Soapboxmom

[Soapboxmom]

Guys,

I guess we are overdue for another talk about market saturation. Some folks are loyal to their cuurrent provider, some want "green" wind ******, some are in municipal co-ops, some have better rates already ( panhandle ), etc, etc, etc......So, some just ain't gonna switch. When will we hit market saturation???? The folks at Ignite/Stream don't even care. As long as warm bodies will pay the fees and sign up the wild out of control hiring will continue and the same 6-7 customers per rep (pathetic) ratio will continue. At some point we wil have thousands at the bottom layer---remember more than half the reps are always at the bottom layer. Many more are in the layers above them and when the rep and customer pool runs dry the whole deal collapses. Only the goons and folks in the very top layers realize any real profits. Don't give us the nonsense about all the folks turning 18 and the endless customer base. Iggy will reach a point where the customer base is at it peak. Other competitors and conditions in the market will also change and we know from experience how painful the implosion of Excel was. We all know for a fact that this will run its course and the vast majority of participants will lose their money. The only question is when. No one at Ignite is controlling the number of reps to keep that number in balance with the abysmal number of customers. You can't tell me that with 6-7 customers per rep that there is any money to be made. There we get into your leverage. One must have exponential growth of many many layers to make money and therefore there are boatloads of people beneath them with a handful of customers losing money hand over fist. Look at your own pyramid!

Soapboxmom

[robertlaf]

Teachers will never ger Ignite because they don't understand free marketplace economics. Teachers working in our government re-education camps are brainwashed into socilaism, they teach it, they recite it and don't even know that is what they are teaching.
A perfect example is the question "where is the money coming from?". If you have to ask that question read Milton Freidman, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell and find out the economic principles that has enabled this country to have the highest standard of living in the world instead of bashing a legitamte company.
I am sick of people basing Wal Mart too.
The money from Ignite is coming from not spending tons of money on sales but instead letting the average person sell it. The naysayers here won't admit they just don't like the way Ignite is distributing the money as if they should have a say in the matter.
The ones in Ignite You have done a great job explaining Ignite. I live in Denton Texas and will be joining soon.
Saturation though is a legitimate concern of mine but what can I lose?

[Soapboxmom]

"Teachers will never ger Ignite because they don't understand free marketplace economics. Teachers working in our government re-education camps are brainwashed into socilaism, they teach it, they recite it and don't even know that is what they are teaching." You are the one that doesn't understand the free marketplace. What does MLM and trickle up economics have to do with it??? The wealth in MLMs is not redistributed fairly, but all funnelled up to the goons that started the venture and early entrants (heavy hitters) and perhaps a few recruiters form heck! How are we preaching the socialist doctrine??? Where do you get the crazy notion that our education courses in college are turning us into raging socialist. Socialist want a classless society and fair redistribution of wealth. Read the other threads here. I posted the words of George Orwell the most famous socialist writer that ever lived. He stood up for free speech and I bet he would not have been a fan of MLM robbing the little guy to pay the big goon.

"find out the economic principles that has enabled this country to have the highest standard of living in the world instead of bashing a legitamte company." They operate legally, but Ignite is a pyramid scheme/scam. This is not bashing, but rather critically evaluating the business model.

"The money from Ignite is coming from not spending tons of money on sales but instead letting the average person sell it. The naysayers here won't admit they just don't like the way Ignite is distributing the money as if they should have a say in the matter.
The ones in Ignite You have done a great job explaining Ignite. I live in Denton Texas and will be joining soon.
Saturation though is a legitimate concern of mine but what can I lose?" As we have clearly seen the vast majority of average people that sell it can't make any money. The bottom layer where over half the recruits sit at any time lose money. Only those at the top of the heap profit in these things. Big downlines and not hard honest work determine the earnings! Money isn't redistributed fairly! The poor joes at the bottom get to watch all the money flow upward. Dishonest goons that sell the dream of wealth and business ownership take the money from unsuspecting recruits! You have been threatening to join for weeks. So, what is stopping you?

Soapboxmom

[kcabnella]

Research Team National (www.bign.com) before making your decision - you do NOT need to purchase anything or maintain and inventory to stay active with them. I'll be happy to talk to you about it if you'd like - e-mail is kcabnella@gmail.com.

Yes I am a member, but only recently. I just did A LOT of research before joining. It's the lowest risk investment MLM out there - and not all MLMs are bad.

Good luck to you.

[Soapboxmom]

Another commercial break!

There is a Team National thread. All the companies on the BigN Marketplace one can purchase from directly and many I get a discount already. Target, for instance, gives me a 10% discount as an internet registered customer (I agreed to boatloads of e-mails). I see no need for anyone to join this pyramid scheme either! Please go to that thread if you want to discuss it further. I would be happy to debate it!

Soapboxmom

[MEL]

Originally Posted by linda49

Mel - Don't get so upset. You are already very busy reducing ***** rates all across the U.S.A. - I'm sure that keeps you busy enough. By the way, how do you do it? The age old question is - Where does the money come from? Another is - Why is this a pyramid? Another - Why are you paid a percentage of someone else's labor? Oh, and the "Canadian" slam.....well, you are not very well informed on that issue, but don't lose any sleep over it... I won't.

Linda49

Been busy and off of the board for a few days. Cheap***** answered your post (nice post by the way cheap) but I'll chime in here as well.

I'm not busy reducing ***** rates across the USA only to my frineds, coworkers, and family. That does keep me busy. ;)

Cheap answered the next several questions but on the "Canadian" slam I'm clueless as to what you meant.

What I was trying to get across is again why do you care what goes on here in TX. I mean here are examples of what you said.
""There seems to be way too much ridiculous hype from some posts promoting this program - and - (as I've learned from the "best" on this site )"Where does the money come from?""

"It seems that some people have no problem with a rip-off as long as they are fairly sure they won't be the "last guy in" at the end who looses."

"Promoting a scam on an anti-scam site and actually recruiting stupid people into it? "

I just thought the overall tone of your post was negative towards anyone who was involved with Ignite. And considering you are in Canada why be posting with the negativness towards people who are involved in something that you have nothing to do with. And can't have anything to do with really. So I had to wonder why you would get involved with this discussion if you can't offer anything that the originater wanted, mainly hearing from someone who was involved with Ignite both positive and the negative.

From Teacher Lady
"I am interested in hearing from others who have decided to join up with Ignite: how's it going? How do most of the people you approach respond? How many meetings do you go to or sponsor in an average week? How well attended are those meetings? How long did it take you to earn back your initial investment? How long did it take you to advance, and what level are you on now? I'd like to hear the stories (good, bad, or indifferent) of others in this company."

There have been others who have posted the negatives about Ignite from their experience with the company. And I think Teacher lady was giving them an equal opportunity to speak out against the company if they wanted to. But what can you offer to the original intent of the thread?

[MEL]

Originally Posted by Soapboxmom

Guys,

1) I guess we are overdue for another talk about market saturation. Some folks are loyal to their cuurrent provider, some want "green" wind ******, some are in municipal co-ops, some have better rates already ( panhandle ), etc, etc, etc......So, some just ain't gonna switch. When will we hit market saturation????
2) Don't give us the nonsense about all the folks turning 18 and the endless customer base. Iggy will reach a point where the customer base is at it peak. Other competitors and conditions in the market will also change and we know from experience how painful the implosion of Excel was.

Soapboxmom

Teacher Lady wrote
"I am interested in hearing from others who have decided to join up with Ignite: how's it going? How do most of the people you approach respond? How many meetings do you go to or sponsor in an average week? How well attended are those meetings? How long did it take you to earn back your initial investment? How long did it take you to advance, and what level are you on now? I'd like to hear the stories (good, bad, or indifferent) of others in this company."

SBM
Are you trying to hijack this thread and go off topic? As far as I know you don't really qualify of having joined up with Ignite, or having stories both good and bad of others in this company. The other thread started by TX Doll we've dealt with this stuff you've brought up before and you have dealt with the things we have brought up.

I edited your post to answer some of your writings but really I think it is off topic of the thread. Not that these things can't be brought up elsewhere and debated etc. etc. but I don't see where "having another talk about market saturation" deals with the subject matter of this thread.

[linda49]

Hey Mel, I never thought being Canadian was controversial. It is very telling that any question you don't like generates some ridiculous attack. The last time I checked, everyone is allowed there opinion and input here provided they follow the rules. My question stands - Where does the money come from? P.S. - You opinion doesn't bother me at all.

[ignited]

Where does the money come from? Where do you think- rep fees, electricity bills, investors.

[robertlaf]

SBM you are defending socialism. I knew you would.
Our schools are turning Americans into socialists and a Nobel prize winning economist also thinks so http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...8/100248.shtml where Milton Freidman says "our schools are outdated socialist systems that have failed our kids and is getting worse everyday".
However that is off the subject some.

I believe MLM's for the most part and this one included rewards hard work and results and is about the free marketplace. Socialism does not reward hard work but in 1 example taxes rich people (who mostly worked hard to get their money) unfairly to redistribute wealth to some non productive people aka poor. Ignite works the free marketplace principles a little differently than pre paid legal and Mary Kay but I can still jump ahead of someone who started on day 1. You said I couldn't and that is not true.

[MEL]

Originally Posted by linda49

Hey Mel, I never thought being Canadian was controversial. It is very telling that any question you don't like generates some ridiculous attack. The last time I checked, everyone is allowed there opinion and input here provided they follow the rules. My question stands - Where does the money come from? P.S. - You opinion doesn't bother me at all.

Linda

There is nothing about being Canadian that is controversial, I have nothing against Canadian's in fact when my family and I visted Vancouver Canada we loved the place.

My last post I high lighted (bold) how your post on this thread called people stupid (stupid people), called Ignite a rip off, a scam, etc. etc.

I posted this
"What I was trying to get across is again why do you care what goes on here in TX. I mean here are examples of what you said......"

"I just thought the overall tone of your post was negative towards anyone who was involved with Ignite. And considering you are in Canada why be posting with the negativness towards people who are involved in something that you have nothing to do with. And can't have anything to do with really. So I had to wonder why you would get involved with this discussion if you can't offer anything that the originater wanted, mainly hearing from someone who was involved with Ignite both positive and the negative"

What question do you think I don't like? The "where does the money come from? " Read the other threads on Ignite the subject has been covered. And can you contribute anything to this thread that stays within the context of what the thread originator wanted?

[rappidone]

For anybody who is truly interested in the reality of the Ignite network marketing effort as well as the substance of its parent organization, Stream ******, you will find a in-depth feature article appearing on the front page of the "Business" section of this Sunday's (December 18th) edition of the Dallas Morning News.

You further might find a digital copy of the article at http://www.dallasnews.com/business.

[Soapboxmom]

Rappiboy,

I am so grateful that you have told folks to read that wonderful article from a very credible and unbiased source! The suckers, I mean warm bodies, I mean recruits are all gonna be runnin'! Just not the direction you want them to, my boy!!!!!!!!!


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.3de2f49.html

Soapboxmom

[energyman]

Originally Posted by Soapboxmom

Cheap,

Your cheap shots and misstatements of facts ain't gonna fly here!

"2. Why is this a pyramid? It's not!!! We get paid for gathering customers, not directors. We are selling something. Someone below me can make more $$$ than me. By definition that IS NOT A PYRAMID, but I'm pretty sure I can't convince you of that."

you / partners / Customers/ Per customer / amount total
you 10
level 1 3 30 .25 $7.50
level 2 9 90 .50 $45.00
level 3 27 270 .75 $202.00
level 4 81 810 $1.00 $810.00
level 5 243 2430 $3.00 $7290.00
363 3640 The big bucks

This is elementary math compliments of Presley Swagerty. I will do the comp tables for MDs, SDs, and EDs if anyone is bored.

Let's use these figures as a fair representaion of the first year averages.
17,000 reps x $329 = $5,593,000
120,000 customers x $7.50 x 12 months = $10,800,000
$16,393,000 (we will assume the web fees and other business tools revenue goes to the top guys only)
$16,393,000 / 17,000 reps equally is $964.29 per year each. But..... we know the big goons make a killing and the little guys make nothing or pocket change.
100 folks could make $163,393 per year if no one else makes a dime.
200 folks could make $81,965 per year if no one else made a dime.
300 folks could make $54,643.33 per year if no one else makes a dime.
Let's take out 3 millionaires and see what the rest get--$787.82.per year..... So, where is the opportunity?????????????????

You are a pyramid where all the fees go upline when you sign up and unlimited monthly ****** income goes endlessly straright up the chain to the apex of said pyramid! Getting someone to sign up themselves and their Mama makes the payout (barely) legal. But, the fact it is legal does not mean it is not a pyramid scheme. If you are comfortable with this business model--- its the USA go do it. But, I won't sit back while you misrepresent this opportunity. A substantial downline is required to earn enough to break even and the only game is recruit, recruit, recruit........The product or service is a side issue and we already know that the vast majority, by design won't make any money! Now, we may be in Texas, but I don't want to hear any more tales that tall!!!!!!!!!!

Soapboxmom

i have a vast amount of experience in the electric industry and have studied deregulation in Texas and been involved in the process since it began. while i have not checked your math you are on the right track. stream/ignite is a concept that is doomed. the agents are only trained to convince family and friends to sign up as agents or directors, their price is not the best price on the market. there is very little "margin" at the residential level. the only place to make the kind of money every one is talking about is through recruiting, i.e $329 level. the average home can save $30 to $50 per month by using another provider besides Stream. that is fact. i know of no agent that has experience in the ****** business adn can service his customer if they have an ****** issue. does anyone really want to take advantage of their family and friends? not me! this MLM is a scam pure and simple.

[cheappower1]

Originally Posted by ******man

i have a vast amount of experience in the electric industry and have studied deregulation in Texas and been involved in the process since it began. while i have not checked your math you are on the right track. stream/ignite is a concept that is doomed. the agents are only trained to convince family and friends to sign up as agents or directors, their price is not the best price on the market. there is very little "margin" at the residential level. the only place to make the kind of money every one is talking about is through recruiting, i.e $329 level. the average home can save $30 to $50 per month by using another provider besides Stream. that is fact. i know of no agent that has experience in the ****** business adn can service his customer if they have an ****** issue. does anyone really want to take advantage of their family and friends? not me! this MLM is a scam pure and simple.

I'm saving about 30% right now in N. Texas using Stream over TXU. Please point me in the right direction where I can save another $30 to $50 per month. Also, if a customer has an ****** issue who do you think they should call? I'm taking care of this for my customers, but what kind of problem are you talking about. If their electricity goes out, they should call TXU Delivery, regardless of who their provider is. If they have a billing issue they should call Stream, and like I said, I take care of that for them. What other ****** issues are there?

[ProOrganizer]

What gets me about Ignite and any MLM, they get paid spokespeople who are famous to talk it all up. Or they get trusted business people in local areas to be their spokesmen. That alone sucks!

BUT to scam their own family and friends? Bad!

What was "telling" in the D article and Dallas am news was where they insist it is not a pyramid scheme because they are "selling a product" no, it's not a pyramid scheme if you sell a product because the LAW says it isn't but in essence if it looks like a duck and quakes like a duck...........

[Puddin'Tane]

Robertlaf,

Thank you so much for that wonderful post and reference to Thomas Sowell!

A breath of intelligence and fresh air on a stale forum!

;) Puddin'

[BAILEYSCREAMS_REVENGE]

Originally Posted by ProOrganizer

What gets me about Ignite and any MLM, they get paid spokespeople who are famous to talk it all up. Or they get trusted business people in local areas to be their spokesmen. That alone sucks!

BUT to scam their own family and friends? Bad!

What was "telling" in the D article and Dallas am news was where they insist it is not a pyramid scheme because they are "selling a product" no, it's not a pyramid scheme if you sell a product because the LAW says it isn't but in essence if it looks like a duck and quakes like a duck...........

The reason is because they all win, the famous spokesperson gets to sell their book or "business enhancing program" to all the enthusiastic new and old recruits and prospects to "fire them up" and the MLM or Network Marketing organization's credibility to "prospects" increases.

A win win situation.

[Toolman]

So much negativity! Any corporation can be classified as a pyramid scheme as the one or ones at the top get rich at the one's at the bottoms expense.

I too have some skepticism regarding ignite/stream ******, such as why is the majority of income based on recruiting and not on the product? Why can they not pursue commerical businesses (we all know the money is not in the residential market)? Why did Ignite need an influx of capital in October of 2005 (from someone own father)?
That last question was retorhical I know the reason was because Ignite was on the verge of bankruptcy.

I personally see an avenue to make some serious money in the ****** deregulation market in Texas and across the country. As a matter of fact there is another company that was started before Ignite has fewer reps (approx. 400 to Ignites 20,000) generated more revenue in their first 5 month of business of 2003 ($2,000,000.00) with only about 60 reps than Ignite generated in 12 months with approx. 20,000 ($1,000,000.00). This company ended 2005 with less than 400 reps and generated just over $120,000,000.00 in revenue most of which was paid to the reps that did the work. This company has already had several people leave their full time jobs to work only about 20 hours per week while making anywhere from $500.00 - $4000.00 per week.

The bottom line is Ignite is geared to the folks at the top making the most. I have helped several folks in the other company already surpass me in my income and title. Just this week, I helped a stay at home mom make approx. $3000.00 in 2 hours of time in the commercial electricity market. Oh, by the way her initial investment for her business was $340.00 plus training material of $159.00. I spent 6 hours training her she has closed 5 commercial deals and has had several residential clients come on board for her as well. She has also made an additional $200.00 fast start bonus in just short of 3 weeks of getting started. What is interesting is she has not recruited a soul to make this money!!!!

Also, another mom (single) was working full time for $10.50 per hour got started during a mandatory administrative leave and spent approx. 2 hrs a day during the 2 weeks off and made $7,800.00 her initial inestment was $340.00. Oh, by the way she has not recruited anyone either.

So, in conclusion Harvard Business School teaches MLM as a viable business model but the real issue comes into play when you factor in the motives of the leadership, and what type of product you have (oh, did I mention the fact that the two young ladies actually were able to save their clients thousands of dollars at no charge to the client, not to mention that these 2 young ladies are just 2 of the dozens and dozens of folks actualy making money in this industry), along with what type of education/training program you have to help the majority of people with no experience to succeed.

If your product is good then you will be able to make a substantial living from marketing that product alone and when and if you decide to put an organization of marketers together then you will create enourmous residual income.

Toolman

[openQuestion]

Originally Posted by Toolman

So, in conclusion Harvard Business School teaches MLM as a viable business model ...

I'm not going to get into the rest of your post, but the above is total bunk, a complete fabrication, a lie. Harvard teaches no such thing and never has.

[Duck98]

Originally Posted by Toolman

So much negativity! Any corporation can be classified as a pyramid scheme as the one or ones at the top get rich at the one's at the bottoms expense.

No it cannot. You are making a false analogy - and one that is commonly used by MLMers. When "any corporation" starts charging their employees for the privilege of working at the company and rewards them for recruiting new employees - and so on - then it would be a "pyramid". This is pretty obvious. Your use of it shows that you either do not have any understanding of what a pyramid scheme is, or you do not understand what a corporation is or you are blowing hot air. You pick.

I personally see an avenue to make some serious money in the ****** deregulation market in Texas and across the country. As a matter of fact there is another company that was started before Ignite has fewer reps (approx. 400 to Ignites 20,000) generated more revenue in their first 5 month of business of 2003 ($2,000,000.00) with only about 60 reps than Ignite generated in 12 months with approx. 20,000 ($1,000,000.00). This company ended 2005 with less than 400 reps and generated just over $120,000,000.00 in revenue most of which was paid to the reps that did the work. This company has already had several people leave their full time jobs to work only about 20 hours per week while making anywhere from $500.00 - $4000.00 per week.

When I see documented proof - not anecdotes - I would possibly start to believe it. Of course I have never yet seen anyone from an MLM actually do it.

The bottom line is Ignite is geared to the folks at the top making the most. I have helped several folks in the other company already surpass me in my income and title. Just this week, I helped a stay at home mom make approx. $3000.00 in 2 hours of time in the commercial electricity market. Oh, by the way her initial investment for her business was $340.00 plus training material of $159.00. I spent 6 hours training her she has closed 5 commercial deals and has had several residential clients come on board for her as well. She has also made an additional $200.00 fast start bonus in just short of 3 weeks of getting started. What is interesting is she has not recruited a soul to make this money!!!!

Also, another mom (single) was working full time for $10.50 per hour got started during a mandatory administrative leave and spent approx. 2 hrs a day during the 2 weeks off and made $7,800.00 her initial inestment was $340.00. Oh, by the way she has not recruited anyone either.

Two more anecdotes - not even worth the pixels that display the "story". Y

So, in conclusion Harvard Business School teaches MLM as a viable business model but the real issue comes into play when you factor in the motives of the leadership, and what type of product you have (oh, did I mention the fact that the two young ladies actually were able to save their clients thousands of dollars at no charge to the client, not to mention that these 2 young ladies are just 2 of the dozens and dozens of folks actualy making money in this industry), along with what type of education/training program you have to help the majority of people with no experience to succeed.

Please cite the Harvard Business School material that teaches MLM as a "viable business model" - please. You said it, you can document it can't you? Or were you just repeating what someone told you?

If your product is good then you will be able to make a substantial living from marketing that product alone and when and if you decide to put an organization of marketers together then you will create enourmous residual income.

Toolman

No you won't.

[ignited]

Toolman- Bullsheet.

[ProOrganizer]

Originally Posted by linda49

If you've read the other posts on this subject why start a new thread? Seems to me the term you've used ("people under me") says it all.

Can you say......SHILL???

My oh my they just keep spamming the board with this cr*p don't they?
They are trying wayyyyyyyyy to hard.


:p That's my answer to them!!

[texasgrandmom]

Any new info on Ignite, Inc.?

[texntux2truks]

Did ya find the info on Ignite that you were looking for?

[ignited]

Business is booming. The corporate office rocks and the checks are huge (if you are willing to work). What do you want to know?

[Wishyouknew]

What happened to all the Ignite posters on this website? Did they give up?

[Soapboxmom]

I know it's an old thread, but I think it is very telling that cheap*****1, Mel, and rappidone the wayward attorney for this bum deal have disappeared. That suggests to me the 2 reps are not making any money or no doubt they would still be on here bragging about it. With 25 out of 50,000 making the big bucks, and the next 620 only averaging around 10 grand a year and then 49,000 more with pocket change or losing money I think we can guess how well our long lost friends are doing. The .25 and .50 residuals on personals and level 1 sure aren't creating the welath that Texans have been promised.

Soapboxmom

[john77075]

Ignite/Stream is so honorable they charged me $20.00+ penalty for making a $4.11 mistake when I paid my $400.00 bill in July. I called the company and asked that this be taken off my bill but they refused. I ask for a supervisor and the CSR said she had to file a request and the bill could be adjusted in 24 to 48 hours depending on the outcome of that decision. I wait with baited breath. I knew the company was not the most reputable from my experience as a Managing Director with Ignite. I have filed complaints with the AG and PUC concerning this company. I realize that one can make a lot of money with MLM despite what the naysayers preach here, andthat the top few make all the money is not a valid criticism. It is that way in life. The top 10% always make 90% of the money. It is the presentation that is corrupt in that how easy the presenters make it sound and some of the figures were a bit misrepresented when I joined. It is still easy to get one's investment back with a little effort and I really don't know of many businesses one can start for 329 dollars plus 19.95 per month for the web site. All this is mute though and I must agree that Ignite is not the money making engine it is presented as and I feel the AG will find that it is indeed a pyramid scheme.

[openQuestion]

Originally Posted by john77075

It is the presentation that is corrupt in that how easy the presenters make it sound and some of the figures were a bit misrepresented when I joined.

But honestly, do we REALLY expect them to stand up there and tell everyone how HARD it is to make money at this? That would make them bad salespeople instead of the GREAT salespeople they really are.

Oops. Sorry for using the "S" word.

[Soapboxmom]

http://houston.backpage.com/services...0opportunities

Managing Director (2nd Level) Ignite MLM arm of Stream ******
posted: September 27, 2006, 10:32 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply: john@johnbonner.net


FOR SALE

Managing Directors Position in Ignite MLM arm of Stream ******

Generates $50.00 + Income Per Month

Opportunity to start from the second level

$475.00 + Transfer Fees ($150.00) OBO

Ask for John

713-991-1525 Home Office

713-253-2204 Cell (Sometimes hard to reach here)


Gulf Meadows Drive at Red Robin, 77075-2905 google map | yahoo map

Location: Houston Hobby

Gee, it is such a stellar opportunity long time reps are desperately trying to find new suckers to buy their losing spots in this egregious pyramid scheme. If it is so great why is he jumping ship? Wouldn't a newbie find it cheaper to start their own business? Just think a whopping $50 a month in residuals! So it would only take you 13 months to make back what you paid this loser if you don't have customers and reps abandoning ship by the boatload. You just need to cough up $20 a month for a website and then you will be raking in a tremendous $30 a month. Won't all the suckers be ferociously fighting over this one! Hilarious!

Soapboxmom

[mbatte]

OUTTA MY WAY !!!

I know an opportunity when I sees one. I sure can use $30 a month! Yeah, Buddy, with Snickers bars getting sooo expensive......

(Looks like someone's Ignite bubble has popped.)

[IKE]

Soapboxmom,

I can understand you wanting to post the advertisement but I think you could have edited the man's personal information to some extent.

I know this man and I am sure the last thing he wanted to do was become fodder for some BB.

IKE


Ambit Consultant and proud of it!!!!!!!!

[openQuestion]

Originally Posted by IKE

Soapboxmom,

I can understand you wanting to post the advertisement but I think you could have edited the man's personal information to some extent.

I know this man and I am sure the last thing he wanted to do was become fodder for some BB.

IKE

Ambit Consultant and proud of it!!!!!!!!

He opened himself up to this by posting such an ad on the internet. That's his fault, not hers.

[IKE]

While I agree with you!!! the basis for the post was to show that someone was selling THERE position in IGNITE. All I am saying is the point could have been made without a verbatim copy of his information NOT WHO IS RESPONSIBLE.

IKE