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  #1  
Old 11-12-2010, 04:50 AM
danrush1966 danrush1966 is offline
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Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Like all Marines, Oswald was trained and tested in riflery, scoring 212 in December 1956[11] (slightly above the minimum for qualification as a sharpshooter) but in May 1959 scoring only 191[11] (barely earning the lower designation of marksman).[22]
And now, the Marine corps shooting qualification program that went from 1948 to 2007

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In Dec. 1948, a new rifle course with a possible score of 250 points was introduced, similar to the scoring system used today.
Weapons ranges aboard the Depot saw drastic changes in the years leading up to the Korean War. The contraction of concrete grenade pits, and an indoor .22-caliber rifle range were several that occurred, Alvarez writes.
Alvarez writes, recruits fired the .22-caliber rifle prior to firing the M1 Garand to qualify on the range and were also familiarized with the Browning Automatic Rifle.
The first week on the range was devoted firing with no ammunition while aiming at large black dots painted on white wooden posts. The second week recruits fired both the .22-caliber and M1 rifles, and worked pulling targets in the rifle range pits.
“Record day” was a high point in recruit training and occurred during the third range week. Shots were fired in the standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone positions at the 200, 300 and 500-yard lines for a maximum score of 250 points. This system remained in place until 2007.
One hundred and ninety points were required to achieve the marksman's medal, 210 points for a sharpshooter, and an expert rifleman had to score 220-250 points, Alvarez writes.
Oswald was actually a competant and average shooter, certainly good enough to hit a slow target moving away from him with a rifle scope.

Conspiracy = failure for the believers.


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  #2  
Old 11-12-2010, 02:12 PM
porsteamboy porsteamboy is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by danrush1966 View Post
And now, the Marine corps shooting qualification program that went from 1948 to 2007



Oswald was actually a competant and average shooter, certainly good enough to hit a slow target moving away from him with a rifle scope.

Conspiracy = failure for the believers.
Then why didn't they have a low end sharpshooter recreate Oswald shots, would have been more believable.



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  #3  
Old 11-12-2010, 06:05 PM
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$ick3nin.vend3tta $ick3nin.vend3tta is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by danrush1966 View Post
Oswald was actually a competant and average shooter, certainly good enough to hit a slow target moving away from him with a rifle scope.
There is credible evidence "Oswald" did hit JFK in the back, but it's been aired on shows which document the wounds inflicted to his skull, along with how his head reacted to the fatal shot couldn't have been produced from that particular snipe nest on the sixth floor of the Dallas Schoolbook Depository.


Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3tta : 11-12-2010 at 06:14 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2010, 03:54 PM
Soupnazi630 Soupnazi630 is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by porsteamboy View Post
Then why didn't they have a low end sharpshooter recreate Oswald shots, would have been more believable.
For any number of mundane reasons.

Such as the FBI does not employ low level sharpshooters and they called up one of their own.

Or perhaps because recreating the event in the same place required an extra eye to safety and therefore an expert.

OR any other number of reasons.

The fact is it these are all irrelevant speculations Oswald had the skill and the shooting he accomplished was not hard for any average marine, soldier, or hunter.



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  #5  
Old 11-13-2010, 03:55 PM
Soupnazi630 Soupnazi630 is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by $ick3nin.vend3tta View Post
There is credible evidence "Oswald" did hit JFK in the back, but it's been aired on shows which document the wounds inflicted to his skull, along with how his head reacted to the fatal shot couldn't have been produced from that particular snipe nest on the sixth floor of the Dallas Schoolbook Depository.
Shows are........shows meaning entertainment not facts or educational.,

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  #6  
Old 11-13-2010, 11:56 PM
porsteamboy porsteamboy is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
For any number of mundane reasons.

Such as the FBI does not employ low level sharpshooters and they called up one of their own.

Or perhaps because recreating the event in the same place required an extra eye to safety and therefore an expert.

OR any other number of reasons.

The fact is it these are all irrelevant speculations Oswald had the skill and the shooting he accomplished was not hard for any average marine, soldier, or hunter.
If it wasn't hard for any average Marine then why didn't they use an average marine to recreate it. The FBI training Academy is at the Quantico Marine Corps Base, might be a few average Marines around, don't you think! Or maybe they did, thats why they went with the Experts.

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  #7  
Old 11-14-2010, 02:43 AM
Soupnazi630 Soupnazi630 is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by porsteamboy View Post
If it wasn't hard for any average Marine then why didn't they use an average marine to recreate it. The FBI training Academy is at the Quantico Marine Corps Base, might be a few average Marines around, don't you think! Or maybe they did, thats why they went with the Experts.
No there is simply no reason other than to use your best most experienced shooters who ALSO happen to be agents.

They wanted someone who knew how to shoot and who knew the ins and outs of a murder investigation.

The facts of the shooting still prove that any average trained shooter such as a Marine could have done it.

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  #8  
Old 11-14-2010, 04:45 PM
danrush1966 danrush1966 is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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If it wasn't hard for any average Marine then why didn't they use an average marine to recreate it. The FBI training Academy is at the Quantico Marine Corps Base, might be a few average Marines around, don't you think! Or maybe they did, thats why they went with the Experts.


I own a carcano and have no problm putting 3 rapid reload shots in the bull with a scope.

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  #9  
Old 11-14-2010, 08:27 PM
porsteamboy porsteamboy is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
No there is simply no reason other than to use your best most experienced shooters who ALSO happen to be agents.

They wanted someone who knew how to shoot and who knew the ins and outs of a murder investigation.

The facts of the shooting still prove that any average trained shooter such as a Marine could have done it.
What are the facts that prove an average marine could have done it. Where are the test results?

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  #10  
Old 11-15-2010, 04:07 AM
danrush1966 danrush1966 is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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What are the facts that prove an average marine could have done it. Where are the test results?
Logic escapes some people doesn't it? You have a car moving at 12 mph and less in parts of the event. You have a leading target moving away from you which any hunter can tell you is an easier target to line a sight with than one coming at you.

Something interesting I did find last night in the Warren Report. There were five total shells at the scene of the shooting (6 floor TBSD) 4 on the floor and one unspent round in the rifle chamber.

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  #11  
Old 11-15-2010, 05:27 AM
Soupnazi630 Soupnazi630 is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by porsteamboy View Post
What are the facts that prove an average marine could have done it. Where are the test results?
It was less than 100 yards to the head shot which was the LAST shot meaning the other two shots were CLOSER.

This is an easy distance for any marine or soldier with a rifle.

The target was slowly moving directly away from Oswald's line of sight. This means in his view the target would have only been SLOWLY shrinking.

True he had limited time to get his shots off before the limo passed under the bridge but other than that the target was not moving in any fashion to complicate the shots. The time he had to do it in was adequate which is what Marines and soldiers are trained to do. They are not trained to take all day aiming.

No problem the facts prove it was simple for a man with Oswald's military background.

In fact any Marine or soldier who visits Dealey plaza can see that they could have made the same shots. Just look from the sixth floor window/snipers nest to the X on the street and it is NO challenge.

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  #12  
Old 11-15-2010, 06:34 AM
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
It was less than 100 yards to the head shot which was the LAST shot meaning the other two shots were CLOSER.
Soup, was Greer a co-conspirator?.

He slowed the car right down when the fatal shots rained in.

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  #13  
Old 11-15-2010, 08:56 AM
danrush1966 danrush1966 is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Soup, was Greer a co-conspirator?.

He slowed the car right down when the fatal shots rained in.
This has been investigated over and over again, Greer paniced! This event happened before S.S. agents got more extensive training in driving evasion. You're starting to pick and choose again to cover your own failures.

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  #14  
Old 11-15-2010, 04:19 PM
porsteamboy porsteamboy is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
It was less than 100 yards to the head shot which was the LAST shot meaning the other two shots were CLOSER.

This is an easy distance for any marine or soldier with a rifle.

The target was slowly moving directly away from Oswald's line of sight. This means in his view the target would have only been SLOWLY shrinking.

True he had limited time to get his shots off before the limo passed under the bridge but other than that the target was not moving in any fashion to complicate the shots. The time he had to do it in was adequate which is what Marines and soldiers are trained to do. They are not trained to take all day aiming.

No problem the facts prove it was simple for a man with Oswald's military background.

In fact any Marine or soldier who visits Dealey plaza can see that they could have made the same shots. Just look from the sixth floor window/snipers nest to the X on the street and it is NO challenge.
All speculation, if they claim Oswald could have made the shot with his training and you claim any average trained marine could make the shots, then i would expect to see test where average trained Marines re-created the shots, not expert marksmen, which were much more proficient with a rifle than Oswald could ever expected to be and try to pass that off as evidence that Oswald had the capability to make the shots. Oswald was a Radar operator, the only time he shot a rifle was probably when he was required to qualify.

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  #15  
Old 11-15-2010, 04:36 PM
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

The simple fact is that an expert had to be used because the shots were being reproduced.
Reproducing a shot and it's documented effects is much more complex than simply taking a shot and trying to hit a target.

For example... the 'single bullet incident'. It took place at a specific time when Kennedy and Connaly were in specific positions relative to each other and moving at a specific speed. To duplicate such a shot and it's effects require an expert marksman.

This is not an endorsement of the 'single bullet'... it is an explanation of why an expert marksman has to be used...

BUT, you'all know this or at least you should.

.

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  #16  
Old 11-15-2010, 10:00 PM
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by danrush1966 View Post
This has been investigated over and over again, Greer paniced! This event happened before S.S. agents got more extensive training in driving evasion. You're starting to pick and choose again to cover your own failures.


Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3tta : 11-15-2010 at 10:24 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2010, 10:57 AM
danrush1966 danrush1966 is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

Laugh, it's all you have left.

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  #18  
Old 11-16-2010, 11:09 PM
porsteamboy porsteamboy is offline
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Re: Oswald's Marine shooting record

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Originally Posted by PaulM View Post
The simple fact is that an expert had to be used because the shots were being reproduced.
Reproducing a shot and it's documented effects is much more complex than simply taking a shot and trying to hit a target.

For example... the 'single bullet incident'. It took place at a specific time when Kennedy and Connaly were in specific positions relative to each other and moving at a specific speed. To duplicate such a shot and it's effects require an expert marksman.

This is not an endorsement of the 'single bullet'... it is an explanation of why an expert marksman has to be used...

BUT, you'all know this or at least you should.

.
Yes, understood but when they use an expert to establish a 2.3 sec. time necessary to operate the rifle, that demonstrates the capabilities of the rifle performed by an expert rifleman, not Oswald's capabilities. Yet the WC conclueded... that a rifleman of Lee Harvey Owald's capabilities could have fired the shots from the rifle used in the assassination within the elasped time of the shooting. Owald's capabilities were that of (as far as they were able to determine) a low end sharpshooter but was able to match the proficiency of an expert.


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