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  #73  
Old 08-24-2010, 07:56 AM
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Re: Ban The Burka?

Well, I can't/won't speak for her, I just feel she made a good post, that was all.
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  #74  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:09 AM
Tulip Tulip is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
Well, I can't/won't speak for her, I just feel she made a good post, that was all.
Thank you again Steve,

I used the Catholic church as an example because this is the church I myself am most familiar with.

I can remember when according to the Catholic church being gay was a sin (participating in homosexual sexual activity), you could not use contraceptives( I consider this abuse against women), many Catholic women had larger families than they would have liked, the church did grant divorce but you were not to marry again(I consider this abuse against women), masturbation and premarital sex were a sin. Now the church was and still is very strict on certain issues. Would depend on the parish and the priest as it could vary on how that particular parish or priest would view different issues and how strict they would be.

I also can remember Catholics being taught to never attend any church but the Catholic church and that it was the only church.

So when I read about Islam and this religious faith some of their teachings and the strictness takes me back to the teachings of the Catholic church.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

http://www.religion-online.org/showa....asp?title=113


Last edited by Tulip : 08-24-2010 at 10:39 AM.
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  #75  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:18 AM
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HotParadox HotParadox is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by Tulip View Post
Thank you again Steve,

I used the Catholic church as an example because this is the church I myself am most familiar with.

I can remember when according to the Catholic church being gay was a sin, you could not use contraceptives( I consider this abuse against women), many Catholic women had larger families than they would have liked, the church did grant divorce but you were not to marry again(I consider this abuse against women), masturbation and premarital sex were a sin. Now the church was and still is very strict on certain issues. Would depend on the Parrish and the priest as it could vary on how that particular parish or priest would view different issues and how strict they would be.

I also can remember Catholics be taught to never attend any church but the Catholic church and that it was the only church.

So when I read about Islam and this religious faith some of their teachings and the strictness takes me back to the teachings of the Catholic church.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

http://www.religion-online.org/showa....asp?title=113
It's not just the Catholic Church! With the exception of contraception, it is all the same, the things you cited such as homosexuality etc, in every Christian Church! If you get a divorce for the reasons I already stated, the Catholic Church will grant you an annulment and you can re-marry in the Church. If you get divorced for other reasons, Catholic AND Protestant churches will tell you to have a civil ceremony. Believe it or not!
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  #76  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:18 AM
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by Tulip View Post
Thank you again Steve,

I used the Catholic church as an example because this is the church I myself am most familiar with.

I can remember when according to the Catholic church being gay was a sin, you could not use contraceptives( I consider this abuse against women), many Catholic women had larger families than they would have liked, the church did grant divorce but you were not to marry again(I consider this abuse against women), masturbation and premarital sex were a sin. Now the church was and still is very strict on certain issues. Would depend on the parish and the priest as it could vary on how that particular parish or priest would view different issues and how strict they would be.

I also can remember Catholics being taught to never attend any church but the Catholic church and that it was the only church.

So when I read about Islam and this religious faith some of their teachings and the strictness takes me back to the teachings of the Catholic church.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

http://www.religion-online.org/showa....asp?title=113

Actually, in my mother's home nation of Malta, very RC country, most of those things still apply.

You can get a divorce, but are not to marry again.

It is the only nation in EUROPE in which you cannot get an abortion, no matter what.

I consider those things to be an abuse of women's rights, as lovely as Malta is.
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  #77  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:45 AM
Tulip Tulip is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
Actually, in my mother's home nation of Malta, very RC country, most of those things still apply.

You can get a divorce, but are not to marry again.

It is the only nation in EUROPE in which you cannot get an abortion, no matter what.

I consider those things to be an abuse of women's rights, as lovely as Malta is.
Thank you for sharing this. Yes, many things the Catholic church did and does do now could be considered abuse against women, discrimination.


Last edited by Tulip : 08-24-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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  #78  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:47 AM
Tulip Tulip is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
It's not just the Catholic Church! With the exception of contraception, it is all the same, the things you cited such as homosexuality etc, in every Christian Church! If you get a divorce for the reasons I already stated, the Catholic Church will grant you an annulment and you can re-marry in the Church. If you get divorced for other reasons, Catholic AND Protestant churches will tell you to have a civil ceremony. Believe it or not!
With my posts about the Catholic church I was pointing out it is not just the Muslim religion who could be considered strict with their religious laws and discriminating against women.

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  #79  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:06 AM
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by Tulip View Post
With my posts about the Catholic church I was pointing out it is not just the Muslim religion who could be considered strict with their religious laws and discriminating against women.
Yes, I totally understood your point. I am simply saying that it is not just Islam and the Catholic Church. It is Islam and Christianity. I'm not agreeing that Christianity discriminates against women however.
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Last edited by HotParadox : 08-24-2010 at 11:11 AM.
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  #80  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:25 AM
Tulip Tulip is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
Yes, I totally understood your point. I am simply saying that it is not just Islam and the Catholic Church. It is Islam and Christianity. I'm not agreeing that Christianity discriminates against women however.
I am glad you understood my point.

When we look at religions you will always find those that do not agree with the religion, their beliefs or their laws. I myself can understand the Muslim religion in a better way when I compare it to the Catholic church and what I myself know of the church.

Many people can feel the strictness of following a religion brings good to your life not bad. I beleive this is the controversy we are seeing with the Muslim religion. Islam has many who want to keep their faith and its laws the same as they have been over many many years. They do not want to change. They feel the laws they are following is the way to be a good Muslim and live their life the way God wants them to live it. Even when others are telling them women are being oppressed and laws need to change many are comfortable with the way they now are honoring their faith.

Just like with Catholics. Many had problems with the strictness of the Catholic church and spoke out. Many left the church. Steve posted in his moms country they are still very strict.
I am sure there are many who are happy to follow the strict laws and by following these strict laws they feel they are doing what God wants them to do.


Last edited by Tulip : 08-24-2010 at 11:32 AM.
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  #81  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:25 AM
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by Tulip View Post
Thank you for sharing this. Yes, many things the Catholic church did and does do now could be considered abuse against women, discrimination.
No worries.

I should stress, I have been there (Malta) many times, and the people are wonderful, VERY friendly, if somewhat fiery!

People really DO leave their front doors unlocked, and their cars, the *****s are among the clearest in the Med, truly lovely.

The Pope paid a visit to Malta recently, and, to my delight, he was given a poor reception, something which would never have happened, even a few years ago. I think they are finally waking up to what he represents - the head of the world's largest paedo ring.
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  #82  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:32 AM
Tulip Tulip is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then View Post
No worries.

I should stress, I have been there (Malta) many times, and the people are wonderful, VERY friendly, if somewhat fiery!

People really DO leave their front doors unlocked, and their cars, the *****s are among the clearest in the Med, truly lovely.

The Pope paid a visit to Malta recently, and, to my delight, he was given a poor reception, something which would never have happened, even a few years ago. I think they are finally waking up to what he represents - the head of the world's largest paedo ring.
The Catholic church has many problems to resolve.

It is sad to see what has happened and know how many Catholics there are in this world and how disappointed they are in their faith and the way the church has let them down.

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  #83  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:48 AM
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by Tulip View Post
I am glad you understood my point.

When we look at religions you will always find those that do not agree with the religion, their beliefs or their laws. I myself can understand the Muslim religion in a better way when I compare it to the Catholic church and what I myself know of the church.

Many people can feel the strictness of following a religion brings good to your life not bad. I beleive this is the controversy we are seeing with the Muslim religion. Islam has many who want to keep their faith and its laws the same as they have been over many many years. They do not want to change. They feel the laws they are following is the way to be a good Muslim and live their life the way God wants them to live it. Even when others are telling them women are being oppressed and laws need to change many are comfortable with the way they now are honoring their faith.

Just like with Catholics. Many had problems with the strictness of the Catholic church and spoke out. Many left the church. Steve posted in his moms country they are still very strict.
I am sure there are many who are happy to follow the strict laws and by following these strict laws they feel they are doing what God wants them to do.
Yeah, I just can't seem to get my point across and that is this: it is not just the Catholic Church that is strict. The CHRISTIAN BIBLE is strict. All sects of Christianity are strict if they go by the book, and all mainstream Christian sects do go by the book. Baptists, Evangelicals, Born Again, Pentecostal and on and on...STRICT.

The problem isn't with Christianity. No. The problem is people don't want to play by the rules. They want a new set of rules. The rules are the rules ie the Bible is not going to change. People don't like it, I say, leave the faith. No one is holding a gun to my head, I know that much.

I'll drop it now.
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Last edited by HotParadox : 08-24-2010 at 12:07 PM.
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  #84  
Old 08-24-2010, 12:02 PM
Tulip Tulip is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by HotParadox View Post
Yeah, I just can't seem to get my point across and that is this: it is not just the Catholic Church that is strict. The CHRISTIAN BIBLE is strict. All sects of Christianity are strict if they go by the book, and all mainstream Christian sects do go by the book. Baptists, Evangelicals, Born Again, Pentecostal and on and on...STRICT.

I'll drop it now.
I understand what you are saying.

I am sharing about the Catholic church because this is where my experience is with a religion.

I do feel though after reading about the Muslim religion it is a religion where the Muslim puts their faith first and above all else in their lives.

I realize there are also people of other faiths that do this but it seems to me Muslims are stricter about bringing their faith into their everyday life more so then most of other religions.

I think this is where a lot of their problems are coming from.

All of the honor killings, punishments and crimes are always in the name of their religion. Oppression of females is in the name of their religion. I think the people doing the crimes are just like any other unhinged person who murders but because their life is so taken over by their faith the crimes are always to do with their religion.

Example
We have families where the father may loose his job and then kill the entire family because he feels he cannot take care of them properly.

Women are killing their children.

Then when we have Muslims do honor killings and murdering others we see it as the religion itself is causing the problem. The Muslim relgion may influence the crimes but I feel it is the person themselves who have mental issues and would probably do crimes even if they were not Muslim.

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  #85  
Old 08-24-2010, 04:28 PM
Tulip Tulip is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

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Originally Posted by pwrone View Post
No.

If you have made the choice to live in ANY country in the world, you should live under the laws of that country. Period.

Even in a 'Muslim country', the laws that we would be following would be those of the country, not the religion. Small distinction, but important in some cases.

If you cannot agree to it, in writing, while taking your oath of loyalty or assimilation, you should be ejected from the country.

If you cannot abide by it, you should be jailed or deported.


.
I am still reading and trying to better understand Sharia law and form an opinion.

I am going to post this article for anyone to read that may be interested in understanding sharia law.

I have been reading about the criminal justice system in Muslim countries and trying to understand the crime rates in Muslim countries compared to the west.

Here is the article on Sharia Law.

http://muslim-canada.org/Islam_myths.htm

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  #86  
Old 08-26-2010, 10:00 AM
Tulip Tulip is offline
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Re: Ban The Burka?

Pwrone

Muslim women according to the Koran are slaves of the Muslim men. Many of the barbaric things Muslims have done and still do are being changed but boy not fast enough, it seems to me.

I have so many questions as to how quickly some of their laws that just are not acceptable will change.

I say no to Sharia courts here in the US. The Muslim just have to many changes to make on how they treat women. I don't see how we could let women be abused in a court system here in America. I feel because of the way they look at women in the Islamic religion Americans would see mistreatment of these people in a Sharia court of law.
Hopefully if we said no it may bring some positive change for the Muslim.

I have done a lot of reading about Islam and the religion and the Muslim countries. I realize there is much to learn. I have read and my understanding tells me women are truly mistreated by men is the Islamic faith. This is not exaggerated it is the truth.
I would like to think changes would be made and soon but how do we know when or if they will change?


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