The BBB is a Scam!

[kfitch27]

I just thought I would vent on the BBB. I am a small Internet company that is selling some home made ceramics and wanted to get BBB certified. I am not listing my company name so you think I am just trying to get some exposure for my company. So I did some investigation on them and was amazed to find out some facts:

Fact: The BBB is a PRIVATE company and not a government agency like they want people to think they are. As a matter of fact if you file a complaint against a company with the BBB, they cannot do anything to get your money back or resolve the problem as they have no ***** as a PRIVATE company.

Fact: In order to get listed as a good site with the BBB you have to PAY a large fee to get listed. I was quoted over $1000 per year to get listed. This to me is hypocritical on their part as they are always telling people don't pay for this and that, etc. So remember next time you search the BBB you are not getting the best companies, you are getting the richest companies.

Fact: The BBB wants everyone to have the impression that if a company is not listed on their site then they are not a reputable company. As I listed in the fact above; the truth is that if a company is not listed they didn't want to pay the large fees.

So I guess I am not a reputable company according to the BBB. $1000 per year would more than likely absorb all of my profits, so I guess I lose the next time someone asks me if I am a member of the BBB. I have totally lost confidence in the BBB and thought people should know what they truly are. I know next time if I want to find out who the richest companies are I know that I can go to the BBB.

Feel free to check out my facts for yourself and you will see it is all true. I understand they have costs to maintain but how much do they really need.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if they have 1,000,000 companies registered (could be more) and are charging $1000 per year for each. (some companies pay much more than $1000) That is $1 Billion dollars per year that the BBB is collecting in fees. How much profit is the BBB really making? Do they have stock offerings? something I may want to get in on lol

[planter1]

I have been trying to tell people this forever, that they are just a private company and not a government agency. It is sad that people think of the BBB as their savior, when in reality they cannot do anything to help the consumer. You have a better chance with Burger King helping to get your money back than the BBB. What a deception they have brought to the consumers. On top of all of that they charge these enormous fees to get your company listed because they have used this deception on the consumer to only benefit their pocket book.

I always check companies with Web Assured as they do not charge the large fees as the BBB to the companies and they have even a tougher screening than the BBB to get approved. The best thing about Web Assured is they also back their approved sites with "Liability Protection" which will pay you your money back if any of their sites they approved have issues. The BBB does not even back their own sites like this. So next time you are looking for a good company check if they are Web Assurred, NOT BBB approved.

[CowboyJimmy]

Both of you are idiots!

The BBB is a non profit org that takes Millions if not Billions of $ of work load off of the AG, FBI and FTC. If not for the BBB WE would ALL be getting taxed more!

Thats why if you got to EVERY AG website in the USA you will notice they reccommend going to the BBB to research a business as well as file a compaint BEFORE you attempt to go to the AG..

Also the BBB meets monthly with the AG and many of the regulatory agencies to help prevent fraud and scams.

They also submit press releases to the local news stations to warn consumers about scams..


You are coming on scam.com to B*tch about the fact that you can't afford to spend the money on a non-profit org's service.

Get a real job and investigate the truth before you post vomit from your mouth.. What you read on the internet and scam sites like this ARE NOT ALWAYS TRUE..

[CowboyJimmy]

Originally Posted by kfitch27

I just thought I would vent on the BBB. I am a small Internet company that is selling some home made ceramics and wanted to get BBB certified. I am not listing my company name so you think I am just trying to get some exposure for my company. So I did some investigation on them and was amazed to find out some facts:

Fact: The BBB is a PRIVATE company and not a government agency like they want people to think they are. As a matter of fact if you file a complaint against a company with the BBB, they cannot do anything to get your money back or resolve the problem as they have no ***** as a PRIVATE company.

Fact: In order to get listed as a good site with the BBB you have to PAY a large fee to get listed. I was quoted over $1000 per year to get listed. This to me is hypocritical on their part as they are always telling people don't pay for this and that, etc. So remember next time you search the BBB you are not getting the best companies, you are getting the richest companies.

Fact: The BBB wants everyone to have the impression that if a company is not listed on their site then they are not a reputable company. As I listed in the fact above; the truth is that if a company is not listed they didn't want to pay the large fees.

So I guess I am not a reputable company according to the BBB. $1000 per year would more than likely absorb all of my profits, so I guess I lose the next time someone asks me if I am a member of the BBB. I have totally lost confidence in the BBB and thought people should know what they truly are. I know next time if I want to find out who the richest companies are I know that I can go to the BBB.

Feel free to check out my facts for yourself and you will see it is all true. I understand they have costs to maintain but how much do they really need.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if they have 1,000,000 companies registered (could be more) and are charging $1000 per year for each. (some companies pay much more than $1000) That is $1 Billion dollars per year that the BBB is collecting in fees. How much profit is the BBB really making? Do they have stock offerings? something I may want to get in on lol

Kfitch,

You are completely wrong,

The BBB has several diffrent programs and not all charge that much!

They are a NON-Profit org and you can research their non profit statis and public records.

The BBB is the ONLY organization that actually DOES do a background check on their members.

You should be more crtical of the Chambers of Commerce or NARI or the Home Builders whom let everyone in no matter if they are a "Good Apple" or a "Bad Apple" and DO NOT do a background check on their members

Be crtical of the Yellowpages companies and other advertising agencys, radio and TV stations whom allow their advertisors to advertise decpetivly and illegally.

I can provide many examples to support my claims.


If your "so called" research is from www.rippoffreport.com please realize that NOTHING that the owner of that website says is a FACT. That guy uses that website to extort money from business owners and bash's the BBB in the process.

That guy says that Al Copone started the BBB, This is completly wrong. The former CEO and President of Coke a Cola help start the BBB in the early 1900's and his name is Samuel C Dobbs.

[nomaxim]

As stated the BBB is a non-profit volunteer organization (as far as joining is concerned) that operates in both the US and Canada.

They work as a mediator in disputes between consumers and merchants. They have no legal authority anywhere. The idea is to use the BBB before you have to resort to criminal/court resolutions to a problem. they also rate business's on how said business handles complaints by consumers. And that database of business's is the largest in the world.

If a problem with a merchant goes as far as to involve the courts, credit card companies and such. Then you filing a complaint with the BBB shows that you tried, in good faith, to resolve the problem. Depending on the circumstances such a complaint can help you in a dispute involving a charge-back or even in legal litigations.

The BBB does charge a membership fee to members in order to pay it's staff and maintain the websites and databases.

Overview of the BBB in Canada

The Better Business Bureau first started in the United States in 1912 and in Canada in 1935. Today there are over 170 bureau and branch offices in Canada and The United States with the international headquarters located at the Council of Better Business Bureaus Inc. in Arlington, Virginia.

The Canadian Council of Better Business Bureaus (CCBBB), established in June of 1966, is the coordinating and licensing body of the Better Business Bureau (BBB) system in Canada. The BBB is a not-for-profit, public service organization financed by the private business sector with local Bureaus serving communities and marketplaces across Canada.

Good business starts with trust. Without that trust the relationship between buyer and seller is undermined and over time the marketplace and our economy suffers. Forward thinking business leaders have always understood this and for 75 years they have helped create and support Better Business Bureaus in Canada to define and promote the standards of excellence that set the best businesses apart from the rest.

The BBB promotes trust in the marketplace in several important ways. It collects complaint histories and other information about businesses and provides consumers with unbiased reliability reports to better enable them in their purchasing decisions.

The BBB also evaluates businesses against objective standards, permitting only those businesses that meet and uphold those standards to join in supporting the BBB mission.

When disputes arise, as they can in even the best of business relationships, the BBB offers impartial dispute resolution services to solve problems fast and fairly in a way that helps to preserve a healthy relationship between a business and its customer.

In 2005 Canadian BBBs provided consumers with over 2.3 million company Reliability Reports and helped resolve over 14,000 complaints. The Better Business Bureau is unique because of its position of neutrality and its outstanding history of service.

As with any success story, there are imitators, but none have the stringent operating and objective evaluation standards of the BBB and none that have a comparable history or reputation for integrity and reliable information.

NOTE:
http://welcome.bbb.org/, dot org is reserved for non-profit organizations.

A good example of a BBB press release, Absolute Electronics Website is Duplicated by Scammer

[CowboyJimmy]

Originally Posted by nomaxim

As stated the BBB is a non-profit volunteer organization (as far as joining is concerned) that operates in both the US and Canada.

They work as a mediator in disputes between consumers and merchants. They have no legal authority anywhere. The idea is to use the BBB before you have to resort to criminal/court resolutions to a problem. they also rate business's on how said business handles complaints by consumers. And that database of business's is the largest in the world.

If a problem with a merchant goes as far as to involve the courts, credit card companies and such. Then you filing a complaint with the BBB shows that you tried, in good faith, to resolve the problem. Depending on the circumstances such a complaint can help you in a dispute involving a charge-back or even in legal litigations.

The BBB does charge a membership fee to members in order to pay it's staff and maintain the websites and databases.

Overview of the BBB in Canada

NOTE:
http://welcome.bbb.org/, dot org is reserved for non-profit organizations.

A good example of a BBB press release, Absolute Electronics Website is Duplicated by Scammer

Thank you Prof,

at least someone on this sites does alittle homework before posting on this site..

[kfitch27]

Anyone can state they are a non-profit. It appears Cowboy Jimmy has some of those stock offerings with the BBB. I do not dispute that most of what the BBB does is good, but as Nomaxim also confirms the BBB CANNOT make a decision on the outcome of a complaint as many people think they can. So I am right, as Cowboy has stated; "takes Millions if not Billions of $ of work load off of the AG, FBI and FTC." Well the BBB is collecting that money back in fees from businesses like mine. So now I as the business has to charge more so it all comes back to the consumer anyways. To top it all off the BBB will not even be able to get the consumers money back anyways. They are not a government agency, so I then have to go to the AG, FTC or another government agency at the end. So the BBB collected billions of dollars (non-profit I may add) for the consumer only be mediated and no resolve.

Anyone can start a Web site and say they are a consumer advocate or protection agency such as the BBB. Then make people think they are part of the government to gain the consumrs confidence. Charge money to businesses to put a logo on their store front or Web site to only mediate cases by complaining consumers. I will be CEO and take a $30 Million salary a year and write off all my other expenses to the business and say I am a "non-profit" organization. The consumer will think I am great (until they have to use my service and find out that I cannot do anything for them but put a bad mark on the business) But I am viewed as a god send because "I am for the consumer" and I attend government meetings at the FTC.

I admit I am being harsh, but tell me one thing I said is not true. DO YOUR RESEARCH COWBOY as it appears you have some kind of stake in the BBB I am feeling you are not wanting to share.

[Shippou]

The BBB is 501(c)(6) non profit business (not charity), but there are a few things fishy.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...off0001343.htm

I currently can not find their financial filings that are mandatory for public inspection.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopick03.pdf

Their legal name is Council of Better Business Bureaus INC

Also, I can not even find their articles of incorporation, which is also another mandatory public record for a 501(c)

If they are a scam then why do you care to get listed with them???

Originally Posted by kfitch27

I just thought I would vent on the BBB. I am a small Internet company that is selling some home made ceramics and wanted to get BBB certified. I am not listing my company name so you think I am just trying to get some exposure for my company. So I did some investigation on them and was amazed to find out some facts:

Fact: The BBB is a PRIVATE company and not a government agency like they want people to think they are. As a matter of fact if you file a complaint against a company with the BBB, they cannot do anything to get your money back or resolve the problem as they have no ***** as a PRIVATE company.

Fact: In order to get listed as a good site with the BBB you have to PAY a large fee to get listed. I was quoted over $1000 per year to get listed. This to me is hypocritical on their part as they are always telling people don't pay for this and that, etc. So remember next time you search the BBB you are not getting the best companies, you are getting the richest companies.

Fact: The BBB wants everyone to have the impression that if a company is not listed on their site then they are not a reputable company. As I listed in the fact above; the truth is that if a company is not listed they didn't want to pay the large fees.

So I guess I am not a reputable company according to the BBB. $1000 per year would more than likely absorb all of my profits, so I guess I lose the next time someone asks me if I am a member of the BBB. I have totally lost confidence in the BBB and thought people should know what they truly are. I know next time if I want to find out who the richest companies are I know that I can go to the BBB.

Feel free to check out my facts for yourself and you will see it is all true. I understand they have costs to maintain but how much do they really need.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if they have 1,000,000 companies registered (could be more) and are charging $1000 per year for each. (some companies pay much more than $1000) That is $1 Billion dollars per year that the BBB is collecting in fees. How much profit is the BBB really making? Do they have stock offerings? something I may want to get in on lol

[punkinkng]

Let's see if this changes any of your minds...

I own a roofing company in the United States. The owner of the city's BBB is on my payroll. I pay the BBB a yearly fee to show that I have been in business longer than I have been. I have been in business less than one year, but that scares a lot of consumers when there are a lot of competitors who have been around much longer, so I pay the BBB to show that I have been in business for more than 10 years.

As for the poster 'Maria', or anyone else who would ask, "Why do you care about being part of the BBB?"
Most consumers swear by the BBB as the source for credibility. If you were comparing companies to do business with, I assume you would start with the BBB as well. The BBB is the most welcomed endorsement for most companies- especially when advertising on the internet. Most people automatically assume that everything on the internet is a SCAM, and look to the BBB for any sort of reassurance.

[Pollyanna1970]

WOW...several things to address here:

1. Punkinkng: I'm appalled that you would be so dishonest as to do what you're admitting to. Surely people who live in the town where you have your business would know better. How smart of you not to list your business name or whereabouts. If you'd lie about that, you'd lie about other things and I would never be able to trust that you were a businessman of your word, or had the decency to run an honest business. Shame on your for lying. Most folks would rather do business with a business owner who has experience in his field, even if their OWN business is new, who is HONEST than do business with someone who lies right off the bat about the business itself.

2. Your story, Punkinkng, just illustrates that in every organization there will be crooked, corrupt jerks who can be bought. I guess there are more folks out there who lack integrity than I thought. Shame on him for having such a low pricetag and for being willing to help you decieve the public.

3. I have personally used the BBB more than once. And, while they may have no "*****" because they are privately owned and while they may charge owners to list, the service they offer is worthwhile. The BBB does work with the AG and also has some "clout"...they recovered more than $500 for me in a dispute with one company and assisted my husband and me in other issues. They acted as mediator between us and the companies and pressured the companies to do "the right thing" by us. The reason is because whether they are listed or not, the consumer gets to contact the bbb to complain. The ratings then are based on how many complaints are made and how those complaints are handled.

So, pay the whatever it costs to get listed (the cost would be a tax write off for your "small internet company") and then do a good job providing your products and services so that you can enjoy a good rating. Regardless of what YOU think, Kfitch27, about the BBB being a scam or not, the public respects what they do and looks for companies who have memberships which are accompanied by no complaints (or the fewest possible and those with posititve outcomes).

[i4cu2]

what would you think if a company that's eight years old
never got one complaint and has a triple-A ratings
with the BBB, is this kind of record unusual or standard
ratings?

[Pollyanna1970]

I would say that it's standard. It doesn't mean the business is great, just that no one has made complaints. That would suggest that either the dissatisfied customers (if there were any) didn't bother to file complaints or that the company took care of the problems.

[i4cu2]

Originally Posted by Pollyanna1970

I would say that it's standard. It doesn't mean the business is great, just that no one has made complaints. That would suggest that either the dissatisfied customers (if there were any) didn't bother to file complaints or that the company took care of the problems.

the company has over 10,000 customers not counting representatives most distributors are required
under the old plan to spend $35 a month or have sales
equal to $35 a month to qualify for the commission.
of the average order is three times the minimum requirement.

the company is eight and half years old the new compensation plan doesn't require $35 only $25

[Blert Nirgal]

I worked for a while telemarketing BBB memberships to businesses in Delaware years ago.

From that side, is was not a bit more respectable in operation than any other telemarketing operation: We'd sell membership packages to business owners over the phone and send them out COD by UPS!

It is the arbitration side that is volunteer-run: Their arbitrators are volunteers, and thus are less professional (perhaps) but a lot cheaper than a paid arbitration service.

[Blert Nirgal]

Originally Posted by mariaa

If they are a scam then why do you care to get listed with them???

It is an indicia (indicator) of responsible business practices. From a marketing POV, its value is in causing consumers to turn off their analytical reasoning and run on their emotional reasoning - or at least shifting the scales in that direction.

It's like when you see a company spokesperson in a white coat with a stethoscope and think "trusted doctor" and turn off your skeptical brain.

Nothing wrong with it - but the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval (which means little more than Good Housekeeping magazine lets you advertise with them) actually is probably a better indicia of quality.

[i4cu2]

Originally Posted by Blert Nirgal

I worked for a while telemarketing BBB memberships to businesses in Delaware years ago.

From that side, is was not a bit more respectable in operation than any other telemarketing operation: We'd sell membership packages to business owners over the phone and send them out COD by UPS!

It is the arbitration side that is volunteer-run: Their arbitrators are volunteers, and thus are less professional (perhaps) but a lot cheaper than a paid arbitration service.

thank you for your opinions

[stevenh]

Ironic... because of the financial climate my business has suffered a bit. I decided that after 10 years of being a BBB member I couldn't afford the fee until things turn around.

After 2 months past my due date the daily phone hounding started. They even started having another chapter from a city I've never been asociated with start calling me. (I know because I traced the #)

Now, 3 months later my business went from AAA to AA to A to -A. Today was the last straw for me so when they called I answered. I explained yet again that I wasn't in a position to afford the fee's

BBB: We take credit cards and we can break it up into 2 payment, if this will help.

ME:HUH? How does $500 paid over 30 days make it easier for me?

BBB: By law we are required to let you know that if you do not pay your fee's we will have to terminate your account and you'll lose everything you've built over the last 10 years.

ME: By Law? What does that mean? By what law? Aren't you a private company just trying to get a fee for a $5 plastic BBB plaque?

BBB: yes by law we have to inform you that we will be deleting your account.

ME: Yes, please go ahead and delete my account and when things get better I'll rejoin.

BBB:You do know that rejoining later you'll have to pay another chapter and it will be twice as much, right?

ME: Delete Me Please

This is a full blown scam of a deal and what little faith I ever had in the BBB as a legit company just flew out the door.

My advice... if you get a call from the BBB act like you don't speak english, you don't have time, hang up.

cheers

[writingmoney102]

Originally Posted by kfitch27

I just thought I would vent on the BBB. I am a small Internet company that is selling some home made ceramics and wanted to get BBB certified. I am not listing my company name so you think I am just trying to get some exposure for my company. So I did some investigation on them and was amazed to find out some facts:

Fact: The BBB is a PRIVATE company and not a government agency like they want people to think they are. As a matter of fact if you file a complaint against a company with the BBB, they cannot do anything to get your money back or resolve the problem as they have no ***** as a PRIVATE company.

Fact: In order to get listed as a good site with the BBB you have to PAY a large fee to get listed. I was quoted over $1000 per year to get listed. This to me is hypocritical on their part as they are always telling people don't pay for this and that, etc. So remember next time you search the BBB you are not getting the best companies, you are getting the richest companies.

Fact: The BBB wants everyone to have the impression that if a company is not listed on their site then they are not a reputable company. As I listed in the fact above; the truth is that if a company is not listed they didn't want to pay the large fees.

So I guess I am not a reputable company according to the BBB. $1000 per year would more than likely absorb all of my profits, so I guess I lose the next time someone asks me if I am a member of the BBB. I have totally lost confidence in the BBB and thought people should know what they truly are. I know next time if I want to find out who the richest companies are I know that I can go to the BBB.

Feel free to check out my facts for yourself and you will see it is all true. I understand they have costs to maintain but how much do they really need.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if they have 1,000,000 companies registered (could be more) and are charging $1000 per year for each. (some companies pay much more than $1000) That is $1 Billion dollars per year that the BBB is collecting in fees. How much profit is the BBB really making? Do they have stock offerings? something I may want to get in on lol

Yeah, I don't think the government cares about many of the scams that are going on unless they are not getting a piece of the pie. Yeah, I knew the BBB was privately owned and yes they are money hungry. The BBB does however gives you a good idea about the companies background incuding contact info and reports from consumrs. I didn't know you had to pay $1000 a year, but if you are smart, you would know that you can't just trust a business because they are registered with the BBB. Hell, just look at all the scam online schools like Kaplan University and U of P that are registered with the BBB and they are the biggest crooks! But if you take a look at their reports, it will tell you what type of scam you are! UGH!

[jjoh217]

I have dealt with the BBB in Dallas for the last 15 years on both the business and consumer side.

My business has been both a member and a member of their Reliability program which a business pays more for so that you can put the BBB Reliability seal on your site.

Not once in all of those years have I had to go through any strenuous approval process. It is all a matter of money. Paying members get special attention and better care. That is a fact. There is no doubt that there are politics involved, and the very nature of the their non-profit business is a conflict of interest.

After a run in with them a few years ago, I questioned the ethics of one of their decisions with the COO of the Dallas BBB. He painted himself in a corner and when he couldn't answer my questions the line of communication dropped and he would no longer return calls or messages. Not very professional for an organization that is supposed to be based on integrity.

The point is that the BBB is in a position to affect a business' local reputation, which is important to small and new businesses. I have seen them rate poorly and even cancel memberships for no apparent reason and without explanation. When you have been wronged by the BBB who are you going to complain to and what good do you think will come of it?

Make no mistake about it, The BBB's first priority is always going to be their highest paying members, then their normal paying members. The actual consumer comes in at the bottom. I know this from experience. Their newsletters and "scam" alerts are all great info, but for the most part, it is sent to their members, not to normal everyday consumers.

I will no longer do business with the BBB. I remain a member of the local Chamber of Commerce and at every opportunity I warn fellow businesses and consumers on the dangers of doing business with the BBB. That's not to say that disputes can't be resolved in this manner because they can, but when push comes to shove as it often does, the BBB will resolve on the word and side of their paying member.

[hereiam]

How long have they been around for now?

[Happy Medium]

Originally Posted by jjoh217

I have dealt with the BBB in Dallas for the last 15 years on both the business and consumer side.

My business has been both a member and a member of their Reliability program which a business pays more for so that you can put the BBB Reliability seal on your site.

Not once in all of those years have I had to go through any strenuous approval process. It is all a matter of money. Paying members get special attention and better care. That is a fact. There is no doubt that there are politics involved, and the very nature of the their non-profit business is a conflict of interest.

After a run in with them a few years ago, I questioned the ethics of one of their decisions with the COO of the Dallas BBB. He painted himself in a corner and when he couldn't answer my questions the line of communication dropped and he would no longer return calls or messages. Not very professional for an organization that is supposed to be based on integrity.

The point is that the BBB is in a position to affect a business' local reputation, which is important to small and new businesses. I have seen them rate poorly and even cancel memberships for no apparent reason and without explanation. When you have been wronged by the BBB who are you going to complain to and what good do you think will come of it?

Make no mistake about it, The BBB's first priority is always going to be their highest paying members, then their normal paying members. The actual consumer comes in at the bottom. I know this from experience. Their newsletters and "scam" alerts are all great info, but for the most part, it is sent to their members, not to normal everyday consumers.

I will no longer do business with the BBB. I remain a member of the local Chamber of Commerce and at every opportunity I warn fellow businesses and consumers on the dangers of doing business with the BBB. That's not to say that disputes can't be resolved in this manner because they can, but when push comes to shove as it often does, the BBB will resolve on the word and side of their paying member.

having never had any contact with the bbb except as a consumer making inquiries, this thread is something of a surprise.

the money thing is interesting. if you pay them enough, does that mean that they won't tag your frauds if you are a scamster, like standard graft?

if you are wronged by any business, there is the ftc and the courts.

[Oppresearcher]

if any of you think that a good rating cannot be bought by the BBB search the BBB site online for the video professor in the colorado BBB. this guy has 632 complaints in a 36 month period and has an A rating with the BBB - what a JOKE! case closed!

[dr poormouth]

Originally Posted by Oppresearcher

if any of you think that a good rating cannot be bought by the BBB search the BBB site online for the video professor in the colorado BBB. this guy has 632 complaints in a 36 month period and has an A rating with the BBB - what a JOKE! case closed!

http://www.bbb.org/denver/business-r...enver-co-15503
I'd expect a lot of hassles for a national info-mercial company - and resolving those problems in a timely fashion is the source of their "A" rating; 804 complaints in the last 36 months, 775 resolved, 29 administratively closed.
Read the sections in the report on Products and Services and Industry Tips/ FREE Trial Offers

[Roo]

My business had a disgruntled customer who fabricated a story about me and filed it with the BBB. After receiving the letter I called them up and told them it was a bogus charge and if they filed any report about me I was going to go after them. They explained that they just listed the complaint and if I responded they wouldn't list the complaint but the original complainer could complain again, then if I responded again that would be the end of it. It was apparent that reaching the truth of anything was not very high on the BBB's list.

[cheeru]

They work as a mediator in disputes between consumers and merchants. They have no legal authority anywhere. The idea is to use the BBB before you have to resort to criminal/court resolutions to a problem. they also rate business's on how said business handles complaints by consumers. And that database of business's is the largest in the world.

[punkinkng]

Again, the BBB's loyalty is to the American dollar, and not to honesty or professionalism. If you do a search for a business like Bank of America or Chase Bank, there are thousands and thousands of complaints every month, but for some reason they both have an 'A+' rating! Whereas smaller companies who can't afford their fees every month will have an 'F' rating even if there are no complaints against them. The BBB is such a joke. Like some of the other posters said before me, check out the FTC, or AG's website, its much more reliable.

[james275]

The BBB is certainly a scam, from the business owner's perspective. As a business owner, they've cold-called me and asked me to join. They flat out refused to mail out membership information, saying they only allow businesses to join over the phone.

See here: http://www.eddieoneverything.com/bus...yer-beware.php

[Abigal]

Having a small business who joined the BBB for a year, the BBB rating is based on whether you pay for your membership. For us, we had to pay $600/year for an A rating. As a new business, we wanted to do everything we could to put trust into consumer's minds to hire us. We have a bonafide interest in attracting new business and taking very good care of our customers. We paid to be an "Accredited Business" which supposedly shows a consumer that we are willing to use BBB to mediate complaints if needed. Last year, we couldn't afford the fee because of the economy-boom our rating went down to a B! We had no complaints and our business was a year older-the only reason is because we didn't "pay to play". I complained and got no where, like an earlier post, the woman said they use an algorithm that cannot be changed. However, if I pay it can certainly go back up to an A.

[stevenh]

Think about this... The BBB is in a position to extort companies for their fee's. If you dont want to pay they can rate you anyway they'd like. They know there's nothing anyone can do about it. So, in reality, their rating system means absolutely nothing. It isn't an actual benchmark of service or customer approval. It's about the same as a $5-600 online college degree that you have to pay every year to renew.

They used to be the standard for ensuring safe business practices and a true watchman. No more, just as most of the large corporations have gone, so too has the BBB. It's all about the Benjamins and lining the exec's pockets while offering the least amount of service for the money as possible.

[Procashtinator]

Originally Posted by nomaxim

NOTE:
http://welcome.bbb.org/, dot org is reserved for non-profit organizations

That is absolutely FALSE!

Anyone can buy a dot ORG domain. Just make an account on GoDaddy.com and pay $10-15 and voila! You have your own .org domain.

[banshee311]

Originally Posted by nomaxim

NOTE:
http://welcome.bbb.org/, dot org is reserved for non-profit organizations.

umm go to godaddy.com anyone can register a .org domain without proving anything regarding being a non-profit.

[banshee311]

Bottom line is the BBB requires companies to pay money to have a good grade with them. Show me one company that doesn't pay them for their "Accreditation" that has above a B-.

This could be the best company in the world but still until they pay they will have a C+ or below.

Now do you think this is a bad company if they have 64 complaints in the past 36 months? I guess that would depend on how many customers they have right? Well how does the BBB determine how many customers you have? If I have 1000 customers then yes that is a high percentage but if I have 500,000 customers that is a fraction of a percentage. would this company require a bad grade?

When a complaint is filed with the BBB it shows on the report. What if the complaint is not even a complaint about the business. Still shows and they won't remove it.

Why does the BBB hide how they calculate the grades they give people? Answer that for all of you that love the BBB!!!

I will tell you the answer they don't tell you because they want to be able to manually control your grade. I have a C- today I pay you $3000 for the year, magic I have an A- all because i paid you $3000.

Total Crap and the people on here saying its not are all employees of the BBB

[par4bri]

Cowgirl Jimmy. You are the idiot. Try filing a complaint against a company that is an "Accredited" business. No matter now much information you provide, no matter how wrong they are, the BBB will always side with the business. The only reason you are so upset by these posts, is because you work for the BBB. It is a mafia. PERIOD!

[par4bri]

Cowgirl, what is it about you "non-profit" idiots? Why don't you post how much money each "non-profit" management is allowed to make?

[nomaxim]

Originally Posted by banshee311

Bottom line is the BBB requires companies to pay money to have a good grade with them. Show me one company that doesn't pay them for their "Accreditation" that has above a B-.

Here's two that have a A rating with the BBB that are not Accredited.

http://www.bbb.org/oregon/business-r...rd-or-79001934

BBB Rating for Falcon Northwest Computer Systems Inc
Based on BBB files, Falcon Northwest Computer Systems Inc has a BBB Rating of A on a scale from A+ to F.

Business Contact and Profile for Falcon Northwest Computer Systems Inc
Name: Falcon Northwest Computer Systems Inc
Phone: (888) 325-2661
Address: 2015 Commerce Dr
Medford, OR 97504-9744
Website: www.falcon-nw.com
Original Business Start Date: April 1992
Principal: Mr Kelt Reeves, President
Customer Contact: Mr Kelt Reeves, President - (888) 325-2661 or sales @falcon-nw.com
Email Address: sales @falcon-nw.com
Industry Classification: Computers - Sys Designers & Consult
BBB Accreditation: Falcon Northwest Computer Systems Inc is not a BBB Accredited business.
Additional DBA Names: Falcon Northwest

http://www.bbb.org/richmond/business...sville-va-823/

BBB Rating
Based on BBB files, this business has a BBB Rating of A on a scale from A+ to F.

Business Contact & Profile
Business Name:
Crutchfield Corp.
Business Address: 1 Crutchfield Park
Charlottesville, VA 22911
See the location on a Mapquest Map
See the location on a Google Map
Original Business Start Date: 5/1/1974
Local Business Start Date: 5/1/1974
Type of Entity: Corporation
Principal:
Kurt B. Goodwin, Senior Vice President
Phone Number:
(434) 817-1000
(800) 955-9091
Fax Number:
(434) 817-1010
Email Address:
kgoodwin @Crutchfield.com
BBB Accreditation: This business is not a BBB Accredited Business

Type of Business:
MAIL ORDER & CATALOG SHOPPING
INTERNET SHOPPING SERVICES
Website Address:

http://www.crutchfield.com

(E-mails edited, remove space)

[FLUFFHEAD]

For anyone else who has their head up their ass:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan...s/fi-lazarus21

[stevenh]

Clapping wildly!! Who would have thunk it! LA Times actually reporting something worth reading! Good job FLUFF

[par4bri]

"nomaxim" has joined the idiot pool

[No_Moron_Here]

Originally Posted by par4bri

Cowgirl Jimmy. You are the idiot. Try filing a complaint against a company that is an "Accredited" business. No matter now much information you provide, no matter how wrong they are, the BBB will always side with the business. The only reason you are so upset by these posts, is because you work for the BBB. It is a mafia. PERIOD!

I have filed 3 complaints with the BBB and all of the companies were BBB members. I first dealt directly with the companies without results (the latest was Park Seed). In all 3 cases, the BBB intervened and the issues were resolved in my favor. So par4bri, that sort of blows your post right out of the *****, huh?

Originally Posted by par4bri

"nomaxim" has joined the idiot pool

The OP asked: "Show me one company that doesn't pay them for their "Accreditation" that has above a B-." Nomaxim provided two examples and you call him an idiot. Be forewarned my friend, your time is limited on this site should you continue with the insults. Understood?

And for the record, I'm not exactly a fan of the BBB for many of the reasons posted on this thread.

[FLUFFHEAD]

I will post this article again. It alleges the same things that are being discussed here in this post:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan...s/fi-lazarus21

-The BBB is NOT a non-profit people.

Also, someone asked me for links to my company's ratings on the BBB to justify my complaints. However, since I actually work here and have bosses and stuff, I'm keeping that info confidential.

That same someone also told me that the BBB does not take into consideration the volume of business a company does. That is simply false, as the reason given to me by our LA BBB rep for having an F in LA and a B in NY was that "The LA BBB does not take into consideration the volume of business, while NY does exactly that."

And the reason we have a rating in two different states is not rocket science...we have two offices, with our HQ in NY. Boycott the BBB!!! They aren't who they say they are (smoke and mirrors= .org on their website and they are a PRIVATE company!!!

Look at BBBroundup.com with any questions, preferably BEFORE you respond to me!

[nomaxim]

Originally Posted by FLUFFHEAD

Also, someone asked me for links to my company's ratings on the BBB to justify my complaints. However, since I actually work here and have bosses and stuff, I'm keeping that info confidential.

That same someone also told me that the BBB does not take into consideration the volume of business a company does. That is simply false, as the reason given to me by our LA BBB rep for having an F in LA and a B in NY was that "The LA BBB does not take into consideration the volume of business, while NY does exactly that."

And the reason we have a rating in two different states is not rocket science...we have two offices, with our HQ in NY. Boycott the BBB!!! They aren't who they say they are (smoke and mirrors= .org on their website and they are a PRIVATE company!!!

You seem to be confusing posts from two different threads, http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=25799

Originally Posted by FLUFFHEAD

I will post this article again. It alleges the same things that are being discussed here in this post:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan...s/fi-lazarus21

Look at BBBroundup.com with any questions, preferably BEFORE you respond to me!

You can post the links as many times as you want. The LA Times article pretty much says the same thing as the 'Editor's Note' on every page at bbbroundup.com/,

Editor's note: Neither I or this website have a problem with the Better Business Bureau. Indeed, there is a need for a consumer advocacy group that the public can turn to, and in most cases, the Better Business Bureau fulfills this role adequately.

What we do have a problem with is the BBB's "A-F" grading system. It is demonstratively biased, based on hearsay, weighted in favor of dues paying members and offers no recourse when the BBB makes an error. It is obvious the Better Business Bureau does not now, nor ever will have, the resources to fully investigate the four million businesses in their database, much less grade them with any sense of accuracy. It's an impossible job, and to think otherwise is a mistake that the BBB should acknowledge so they can get back to their reason for existence--protecting the consumer. There's an old saying, "who will watch the watchers" and it applies here as the BBB has set themselves up to be above the law. We are simply here to help the Better Business Bureau do a better job so that they may properly serve the consumer, the business community and themselves.

I edited the paragraph into two parts to make it a little easier to read the pros and cons put forward. Especially since the main problem the editor seems to have is only with the BBB's new grading system.

Originally Posted by FLUFFHEAD

And the reason we have a rating in two different states is not rocket science...we have two offices, with our HQ in NY. Boycott the BBB!!!

It's not unknown for a business that has a bad BBB rating to change it's address or website in order to hide from the bad rating. Some have moved across the country and some have had as many as 20-30 different websites (ie. Brooklyn Camera shops). Since you have chosen to bring up your company and not provided any information to verify your claims, well, then my unsubstantiated claims are just as good as yours.

Now, here's my link for you to read before you respond; ag.ny.gov/media_center/2009/june,

ATTORNEY GENERAL CUOMO SECURES AGREEMENTS WITH SEVEN ELECTRONICS COMPANIES IN NEW YORK FOR USING ILLEGAL ONLINE BUSINESS PRACTICES TO SCAM CONSUMERS NATIONWIDE

Cuomo's Agreements Will Deliver $665,000 in Restitution to Consumers Nationwide who were Scammed By Fraudulent Companies

AG Also Announces Partnership with NY Better Business Bureau and ResellerRatings.com to Quickly Detect and Prosecute Illegal Online Business Practices

click link for full article

And if you click on my profile you will see that RR (mentioned in the above quote) is listed as my homepage and that I have been a member and MOD there for almost 8 years. RR is a merchant review and rating site and so is a competitor of the BBB.

Now, I don't really have a major problem with understanding the new BBB grading and rating system. And it does not appear that many others do either. Why do I say that. Well, bbbroundup.com has a online petition to the US Congress for people to sign in regards to the new BBB rating system. It doesn't give any dates but the WhoIs info shows the domain was registered on 4MAR2009, just over a year ago. To date they have only 220 signers and if you scroll through those you'll see that many of them are duplicates. So I'm guessing that the total is under 200.

[American Patriot]

Originally Posted by CowboyJimmy

Both of you are idiots!

The BBB is a non profit org that takes Millions if not Billions of $ of work load off of the AG, FBI and FTC. If not for the BBB WE would ALL be getting taxed more!

Thats why if you got to EVERY AG website in the USA you will notice they reccommend going to the BBB to research a business as well as file a compaint BEFORE you attempt to go to the AG..

Also the BBB meets monthly with the AG and many of the regulatory agencies to help prevent fraud and scams.

They also submit press releases to the local news stations to warn consumers about scams..


You are coming on scam.com to B*tch about the fact that you can't afford to spend the money on a non-profit org's service.

Get a real job and investigate the truth before you post vomit from your mouth.. What you read on the internet and scam sites like this ARE NOT ALWAYS TRUE..

-----What Jimmy meant to say is that he is a moron! The BBB is far from non-profit! To be a member you have to pay a yearly dues, that can run anywhere from a few hundred dollars to as much as 12k. And there are millions and millions of registered business's.

http://www.bbbroundup.com/LeadStory.html
Go look it up yourself!!

[No_Moron_Here]

Originally Posted by American Patriot

-----What Jimmy meant to say is that he is a moron! The BBB is far from non-profit! To be a member you have to pay a yearly dues, that can run anywhere from a few hundred dollars to as much as 12k. And there are millions and millions of registered business's.

http://www.bbbroundup.com/LeadStory.html
Go look it up yourself!!

I love it when you "debt settlement" losers get socked with a huge F rating by the BBB. According to the BBB, your own website got this rating because:

BBB processed a total of 127 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 127 complaints closed in 36 months, 66 were closed in the last year.These complaints concerned :

1 regarding Advertising Issues
12 regarding Billing or Collection Issues
16 regarding Contract Issues
42 regarding Customer Service Issues
1 regarding Delivery Issues
39 regarding Refund or Exchange Issues
9 regarding Sales Practice Issues
7 regarding Service Issues

These complaints were closed as:
96 Resolved
30 Administratively Closed
1 No Response

So who's the moron now? Looks as if you are because you've been busted. Fortunately for you, I won't expose the name of your company.

[No_Moron_Here]

Originally Posted by FLUFFHEAD

Also, someone asked me for links to my company's ratings on the BBB to justify my complaints. However, since I actually work here and have bosses and stuff, I'm keeping that info confidential.

That same someone also told me that the BBB does not take into consideration the volume of business a company does. That is simply false, as the reason given to me by our LA BBB rep for having an F in LA and a B in NY was that "The LA BBB does not take into consideration the volume of business, while NY does exactly that."

And the reason we have a rating in two different states is not rocket science...we have two offices, with our HQ in NY. Boycott the BBB!!! They aren't who they say they are (smoke and mirrors= .org on their website and they are a PRIVATE company!!!

Look at BBBroundup.com with any questions, preferably BEFORE you respond to me!

How about I give you the lowdown on your company according the records filed with the BBB in Los Angeles alone? Will that do? Yes, your company has a big F and from looking at the report, I can see why.

BBB Complaint Closing Statistics

The following grid displays the number and responses to complaints over the last 36 months:No. of Cmpl Type of Response
6 Making a full refund, as the consumer requested
5 Making a partial refund
38 Agreeing to perform according to their contract
6 Refusing to make an adjustment
15 Refuse to adjust, relying on terms of agreement
2 Unanswered
0 Unassigned
72 Total

[FLUFFHEAD]

Good work, and yes, we have an F in LA with the BBB. Now do me a favor, look up our biggest competitor: Nationwide Relocations...now compare my 72 total complaints to their 781 complaints in the same 36 month period and tell me how/why their B grade is justified? Also, keep in mind that my company does almost 3-4 times the volume of business as our comp.

We deserve that F with 2 unanswered complaints in 3 years? If thats the case, then our comp should get a F minus.

Our company refuses to deal with the telemarketers from the BBB, which btw, is their primary way to gain new business for their "non-profit". Try something to help prove a theory...ask the salesperson to send you your quote or anything for that matter in writing. They won't do it!! All to protect their smoke and mirror driven image....

[No_Moron_Here]

Originally Posted by FLUFFHEAD

Good work, and yes, we have an F in LA with the BBB. Now do me a favor, look up our biggest competitor: Nationwide Relocations...now compare my 72 total complaints to their 781 complaints in the same 36 month period and tell me how/why their B grade is justified? Also, keep in mind that my company does almost 3-4 times the volume of business as our comp.

We deserve that F with 2 unanswered complaints in 3 years? If thats the case, then our comp should get a F minus.

Our company refuses to deal with the telemarketers from the BBB, which btw, is their primary way to gain new business for their "non-profit". Try something to help prove a theory...ask the salesperson to send you your quote or anything for that matter in writing. They won't do it!! All to protect their smoke and mirror driven image....

I would assume this is the reason:

YOUR COMPANY:

Complaints allege failure to honor moving quotes, failure to notify customers that their move will be subcontracted out to another carrier, damage and loss claims, delivery issues and failure to assist in resolving disputes. The company generally responds to complaints by referring customers to the carrier who conducted the moving services, claiming they simply acted as a broker and have no responsibility for what took place during the move. In some cases, the company addressed claims of failing to honor estimates and quotes by claiming the customer did not provide the correct inventory and had more items than quoted.

YOUR COMPETITOR

Complaints received by the Bureau allege concerns with the carrier regarding damaged items and delays in pick-up and/or delivery. According to the company’s contract, the company is not responsible for delays in delivery or pickup, damage, lost or stolen items, however the company states it will assist its customers in resolving carrier disputes.

See the major differences? I do. I also noticed that Nationwide Relocation is not a BBB member.

[nomaxim]

Originally Posted by FLUFFHEAD

Good work, and yes, we have an F in LA with the BBB. Now do me a favor, look up our biggest competitor: Nationwide Relocations...now compare my 72 total complaints to their 781 complaints in the same 36 month period and tell me how/why their B grade is justified? Also, keep in mind that my company does almost 3-4 times the volume of business as our comp.

We deserve that F with 2 unanswered complaints in 3 years? If thats the case, then our comp should get a F minus.

Our company refuses to deal with the telemarketers from the BBB, which btw, is their primary way to gain new business for their "non-profit". Try something to help prove a theory...ask the salesperson to send you your quote or anything for that matter in writing. They won't do it!! All to protect their smoke and mirror driven image....

seflorida.bbb.org/Business-Report/Nationwide-Relocation-Services

BBB Rating C

Accreditation
This company is not accredited by the Better Business Bureau. This fact does not disparage the company in any way.

Complaint Closing Statistics
The following grid displays the number and responses to complaints over the last 36 months:
No. of Cmpl Type of Response
12 Making a full refund, as the consumer requested
28 Making a partial refund
639 Agreeing to perform according to their contract
9 Refusing to make an adjustment
24 Refuse to adjust, relying on terms of agreement
0 Unanswered
57 Unassigned
769 Total

They are also not a BBB member. Have no unanswered complaints. The difference between a C (74.00-76.99) and a F (59.99 and below) is 14.01-17.00 points.

Per BBB Ratings Overview A 'Unanswered Complaint' is worth 20- (-21) points. Note that you can be awarded points based on the amount of time you go with no unanswered complaints hence you can also lose points (have them subtracted) if you get a few over a certain amount of time.

The 'Complaint Volume' is worth 20-2 points. Points are not subtracted in this category, you can only gain them.

And since 'No_Moron_Here' pointed it out. The 'Serious Complaints' category gives 15-0 points. A business can only gain points in this category as well.

So the minimum points a business can get in the 'Complaint Volume' category are 2. You can have up -21 points subtracted in the 'Unanswered Complaint' category.
That alone is a difference of 19 points, or on the grading scale a difference between a rating of A+ (97.00-100.00) and a C+ (77.00-79.99). [Avg, 98.5 -19 =79.5]

They are more then likely getting less points for 'Complaint Volume' then you are. You don't lose points in this category, you just don't gain them. However, you could be getting less points, for 'Unanswered Complaints' and they may be gaining them. You can have points subtracted in this category. And also they are likely getting more points in the 'Serious Complaints' category.

For example;
For 'Complaint Volume' your getting 15 points but they are only getting 10 points. So your 5 points ahead. In 'Serious Complaints' they are getting 10 points, but you are getting 0 (zero). So you are now 5 points behind. In 'Unanswered Complaints' they haven't had any in three years, so they get 15 points. However, you've gotten 2 'Unanswered Complaints' in three years so you get 5 points. You are now 15 points behind. A C rating bottoms out at 74.00 points. You are 15 points behind, that's a 59.00 or F rating.

That's just a example as there are many other factors in calculating a BBB Report and Rating. Again see BBB Ratings Overview. And notice this,

16. Revocation
0 to -10

Yes, a business can have their BBB Accreditation revoked, I've seen it happen before.

[par4bri]

Originally Posted by No_Moron_Here

I have filed 3 complaints with the BBB and all of the companies were BBB members. I first dealt directly with the companies without results (the latest was Park Seed). In all 3 cases, the BBB intervened and the issues were resolved in my favor. So par4bri, that sort of blows your post right out of the *****, huh?



The OP asked: "Show me one company that doesn't pay them for their "Accreditation" that has above a B-." Nomaxim provided two examples and you call him an idiot. Be forewarned my friend, your time is limited on this site should you continue with the insults. Understood?

And for the record, I'm not exactly a fan of the BBB for many of the reasons posted on this thread.

I don't have to show you anything. It is what it is. Perception. People are losing faith in the BBB. Go "Blow" your smoke somewhere else. The BBB pressures a business into paying a fee. The BBB will always side with an accredited business...."my friend". Understand that!

[No_Moron_Here]

Originally Posted by par4bri

I don't have to show you anything. It is what it is. Perception. People are losing faith in the BBB. Go "Blow" your smoke somewhere else. The BBB pressures a business into paying a fee. The BBB will always side with an accredited business...."my friend". Understand that!

Well duh, did you read my post? I didn't ask you to show me anything. The BBB is biased. I'm well aware of that. However, they also serve a purpose and often times it's very valid. I don't endorse the BBB, never have, never will. I've used them to resolve complaints and they've been successful in that area for me. They did not "side" with the businesses I went after that were members...they resolved the complaints and I received my money back.

Here is one you will like: Park Seed Company. Check them out with the BBB and then here: http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/3/ The BBB gives them an A+. Customer complaints are another thing. Obviously the BBB has some pull with them and that is the reason I got my complaint resolved.

So since you're so knowledgeable, what do you suggest?