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BE AWARE OF YOR.COM (aka YorVoice, IXP.net & 2by2.net)
This is the new metamorphosis of IXP.net and 2by2.net, little multifaceted spawns of Dennis Wong and Jefferey P. Morgan.
They are exploiting a pyramidal scheme or a MLM, Multi-Level Marketing, or Network Marketing. More precisely in this case a Binary Matrix.
If you went to the presentation and convinced by their smooth talking, first of all take a look at this lawsuits of the FTC for fraud:
If you feel you owe them everything because they changed your life, and you feel and justify yourself your poor income due to your laziness or that you didn't put much of your time in it... THAT IS HOW MOST PEOPLE FEEL AND ARE EXPERIENCING, EVEN YOUR SUCCESSFUL RECRUITER.
The top recruiters are basically taught to pretend to be successful (and dress accordingly), take the leadership of the conversation, to mislead and most important of all to take advantage of your deep weaknesses and make you see how your life will change after joining this fastly growing company, making overhyped promises. (It is said in the presentation that the VoIP industry is a market of about 300 thousand billion dollars. The whole money in the US makes a total of only 6.2 thousand billion, so their estimation really makes sense)
Most people that are still in this company defend it fanatically without any consistent evidence to support their statements, ignoring unavoidable FACTS such as the lawsuits and the highly criticized controversy around the founders of this huge scamming unethical company.
Victims don't realize that they are being manipulated when the recruiter say to them that the recruiter himself had a couple of bucks before but now they drive a porsche 911, or when ask them if they are a loser, or if they want to become a winner, or earn a lot of money, retire in a few years, or get rid of your unsatisfying job, to be the one on charge, etc...
If you experience(d) that, everything that makes you feel awkward, believe to your guts, they are(were) manipulating you.
They rely in the emotional ties with "resellers" (victims) weak people, making them feel "new born" and "eternally grateful" even if that kind of cynical "friendship" lead them to bad credit, financial struggling and even bankruptcy.
I personally went there to see how they are.
I acted myself as a wussy, unaware and undecided guy to see the full extension of their persuasive and mental abuses.
THEY ARE VERY IMPRESSIVE IN SITUATION/FRAME CONTROL, EXPLOITING GROUPTHINK, PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION, CLEVER LOGICAL FALLACIES INCLUDING FLAWED ANALOGIES.
THEY MASTER IN BODY LANGUAGE READING AND TAKE ADVANTAGES OF IT AS WELL.
I can recognize that they are very good in that.
Excellent Smooth talking! Very persuasive. Very abusive.
You may see one or two Vipers parked in front of the New Yorker Hotel on 34th street and 8th Ave., to make you reinforce the feeling that everything must be true and successful.
And listen to me, I'm a network administrator, computer technician, majoring in economics and finance, previously studied foreign trade, and right now I'm taking psychology and sociology classes just for fun at college, because I always loved that.
I cover all the areas that Yor.com (aka. ixp.net, 2by2.net) can try on me.
They were bul****ting about TIER 1 networks worldwide. I remarked to him that he told me they have penetrated in Latin American countries. He held his statement. Well, people, TIER 1 is hard to find in poor countries such as Nicaragua were their fastest broadband is DSL with 256 Kbit/s. And we are talking the fastEST.
In America there are only 9 ISPs that are real Tier 1 Networks.
When I asked him what was this all about, he explained to me that the company is growing so fast that already it is a multimillion company in only 5 years. (I was wondering why I never heard of it in Business Week, Newsweek, Fortune or Wall Street Journal)
Then explained that since they are growing so fast, they want me to earn money when it is still under the shadows participating as a part of the company. (Then I assumed that instead of a job interview I was actually in a reunion of potential investors and that they wanted to fraud them with shares of a shell company)
Then he continued saying that the company needs shares and resellers. (I thought that I guessed right)
After a long explanation about the services and products, unique business opportunities they had to offer (A blatant copy of Skype) and suspecting remarks of how they want me to participate in their growing wealth he showed me a Flash animation where there was a Pyramid scheme and everything fitted:
He was actually making an analogy of getting a share of a company when it has very high potentials but is still unknown, with being a "reseller" (being part of a company or of the pyramid). Very confusing way to keep me sit for an hour and a half bull****ting me without really telling me the real story.
Very deceptive way to introduce me to be a "Reseller". Any other clueless guy could have fallen in this swift maneuver, maybe delightfully.
All the Business presentation, person-to-person job interview, it was everything a big facade to the main purpose: To Sell you stuff.
YES MISTER OR MISSES, All pyramid schemes are actually that. You are not really master of your business. You are not your own boss. You are their clients. A Franchise? My ass.
Their revenue don't come from selling their products or services, their revenues comes from YOU, since you are the only one paying the annual fee of $390 dollars package for having the "tools" to sell, $700 for three packages (they say you'll have more opportunities to grow), or $1200 for five (which puts you in a higher level and you can get more money from bonuses).
But actually you will ever sell anything. Whatsmore they will incentive you to recruit more people and get bonuses for that.
If everybody recruits people, and everybody below you recruits people, and so on, and they expect you to do so, where is the money coming from? Where is the revenue of the company expected to come from? FROM THE RESELLERS.
And they know that making you believe that it is not really a expense but an INVESTMENT (*shares* tingling) you'll spend that much money. You are buying opportunities of growth, how much does that worth it?
If you are not performing well, that is because you didn't go the last training session or you are not putting the best of you in the job or you need more packages to fulfill your potentials.
What really made me laugh out of loud (but showing a dumb unaware neutral face) is that in the Flash presentation he bragged that the password he is about to enter has a value such as a Social Security Number, and that it has a cost. That is why that "key" has such a value, and that key to success is what they are going to give me, if I buy the package. I was wondering how valuable this password would be if it is in clear text and even not shaded or hidden in asterisks.
After that bull****ting, he pressed enter and it simulated some kind of accessing to a "reserved network" for only "members". But he did NOT have ANY INTERNET CONNECTION. IT WAS CLEARLY DISCONNECTED.
Not only that, I decompiled thousands of SWF files in my life and converted to FLA source files to clone webpages, so I knew that the login was a fake one and that it only moved from one frame to another, even before he pressed enter to "submit" the password.
But he didn't realize that and continued sticked to his script.
Then the Crème de la Crème came. After explaining to me the differences of between other pyramidal systems such as the pyramidal structures of society (and oppressing), pyramidal and vertical structures of corporations (and oppressing) and his pyramidal schemes (freeing and the panacea of all evil), he just opened his application sheet for "Independent Resellers" and asked my Name. I immediately knew it would follow my address, phone number, bank account or credit card and pin number...
So I said If that was it, he said yes. I asked him to give me some time to think about it. He insisted asking me what do I have to think about it. I said I think slowly and with time. He replied that that is a lie, and asked me If I did take a shower today in the morning. I answered yes, and he asked me if I thought about it. ("Fallacy of the Consequent" but in a good timing)
Then I asked him if he buys a new house, would he buy it the first time he sees it before comparing other choices or doing some research? He said yes to that and added that a winner (or weener?) knows when something is good and takes it in the first chance.
I'm still amazed for this (of many) shameless attempt of manipulation.
Then said I would think about it and I would contact him. He asked me If I had time tomorrow, I said I had exams. Then he asked me if I don't eat, I would be in problems if I don't eat. I replied "Of course I eat", then he said, "then let's have a meal together, what about that". WTF?
"No I don't have time." Then he asked me: "what about the next day? Do you have time the next day?"
shameless pressuring, insisting, stressing... manipulating
Then I said that actually I'm not interested by now since I was expecting a technical support position since my background and experience.
Then he said: "then why all the bull****ting?" (that's the last straw! he saying that I'm bull****ting? pleeease...)
I said: "I'm not really interested by now, but it seems interesting, I'm gonna contact you. I have your number."
I shaked his hands and left.
People, I hope that my experience shows a little bit of what they are.
All this is what they call "F U C K their M I N D". Very subtle. If you are working for Yorvoice and you are a "independent reseller" you'll never hear that expression, it is reserved only revealed to the top trainers.
For you it will be everything as fresh as a daisy.
Last edited by sole : 03-28-2007 at 02:52 PM.
Re: BE AWARE OF YOR.COM (aka YorVoice, IXP.net & 2by2.net)
wowowow Im gonna cry, I just had one of these group interviews and my dumbass fell for it... As soon as I got home I looked up the company and found all these forums and sites revealing what a scam yorvoice is and my heart dropped. Something kept irking me the whole time but I went through with it anyway. Everyone there was about my age (18-21) the oldest was the head manager Ahmad Euaji who was 25 and was supposedly retiring at in a few weeks. Everytime this guy passed by everyone would kiss his ass. He was the one who interviewed me and the reps were telling me how lucky I was that he picked me and that he mustve seen my ambition (or my blind desperation for an extra job to pay my tuition this coming fall.) I also noticed that almost every rep there had only been with the company for a few weeks, and were very optimistic about its oportunities... but when I asked my recruit how much shes getting for recruiting me, she said shes not getting any money until i get my first 2 customers or recruit 2 more people =( They told me to come in tomorrow for "further training" in how to get customers and expand my network (scam others into this mess) The contract clearly states I have 3 business days to void and get a full refund, so Ill do just that tomorrow. Im so frustrated right now for being so stupid and I also feel bad for all those new "Independant Representatives" who are still optimistic about their future in that mess. aw man, what a mess. :mad:
Re: BE AWARE OF YOR.COM (aka YorVoice, IXP.net & 2
Hey, I have also been approched by those people. I just left my class and was about to go home, when this girl stops me and started talking to me. At first I thought she had mistaken me for someone else. But then she tells me that she was working with some kind of a technology company, and that they were looking for people who would like to join their internship which could earn some college credits while also making extra cash on the side. I immediately assumed that she was a student at the school who was in the internship program, because she was young and was on the campus. I asked her what type of work I would be doing at the job. So, she simply tells me, "customer service". By the end of the conversation, she asks me for my phone number, and I gave it to her. I truly didn't know what this technology compay was about, but I thought to myself, "if it is an internship it must be good." She gives me a call about a week later and schedules an appointment for me the next day. When I arrived at the address, it was at Starbucks. I saw her and about four other guys dressed in bottoned up shirts and slacks. I walk up to them and greeted them (I was also dressed up, since I was asked to "look sharp"). So, these two guys greeted me as they asked me to sit down. I sit down, and they started to ask me questions. First they wanted me to tell them about myself (about where I grew up, what my major was). Then, they started asking me odd questions, such as, "what kind of person are you? Would you help a person if they need help? Would you give someone money if they asked for it?" I was confused. I was thinking whats this gotta do with the job? So, I started asking my own questions. I wanted to know more about the internship and about the description of the job. When I asked, they would always avoid telling me about it. They just told me that when they send me in (we were sitting outside on one of the starbucks table this whole time) to talk to this other guy (this "other guy" was sitting inside starbucks, supposedly interviewing another person at the time).
After this, I had a feeling that this would be one of those "recruit and make money" type of thing, because I have somewhat fallen for one of these things before. Anyways, when they send me in, I see this young looking guy who looks about my age. So, he starts asking about general things, such as my current status. Then, he asked about where I wanted to be in the future. Afterwards, he tells me a story about his life. I guess the purpose of the story telling was to make me feel comfortable around him, attempting to giving the impression that I can trust him. Then, asks me if I know what VoIP was. I tell him I have never heard of it before. So, he picks up a Linksys brand and VoIP and gives a breif description of it. He tells me that it will be the future of tele commiunication, and that phonelines will be obsolete. Then, he tells me that this is my chance to get rich, if I join. He, then grabs a booklet and explains to me how I will make money. He tells me that I will make money by getting a percentage of the total customer that I have refered to that are using the service from Yor. Another way I will make money is, I will get 20 percent of the total of all the people who I recruited and are below me makes. And another way that I'll make money is ...its weird, its structured like a pyrmid. First, I will receive $60 for bringing in 2 people. Then the people under me each have to bring in at least one person in order for me to receive another $60, then the people under them have to bring in one each, and so on. And yet another way to make money is to first buy the the Linksys brand VoIP internet/phone adaptor for $60 and sell it for whatever price I want to make profit. Now, I start laughing, so he asks me why I was laughing. I tell him it sounds too good to be true, so he says, then would you rather have it sound too "bad to be true"? I laugh and say, no but.. and he jokes, calling me pessimistic. But by the end of the presentation, he tells me that there are three types of people. He catagorized them as A, B, and C. "A" is the person that says sign me up right away. "B" is the person that says I don't know yet, I don't have the time/money. And "C" was the person who is a pessimist, or someone who doesn't want to come out of thier box even if they see that the companay is succeeding. He asked me what kind of person I was. So, I said, "I don't think I'm ready for this type of thing yet, so, I'm going to have to go with "C". He says so, you're a pessimist huh? I respond, "yep". He says, "At least your williing to admit it". I guess he then goes to plan B, which was to get me to spread the word. He asks me if I know anyone who might be interested in this type of business and asks for ten friend/family phone numbers. I tell him, "I'm sorry I don't know them from the top of my head". So, I sake his hand and thanked him for his time (to be polite), but really I wanted to go home and rest because I had a long day. Oh, yeah did I mention the fee to join was about 300 dollars? I didn't find out if there was an annual fee, because I was never going to join it. Well that was my story and experience with these guys. They really are smooth talkers, just don't fall for them.
Re: BE AWARE OF YOR.COM (aka YorVoice, IXP.net & 2
All of the above is true.. along with all of the other postings on IXP. I am speaking from experience, I had joined IXP several years ago (maybe 4 years ago?) when I was still in college and looking for a part-time job. This guy named Joe Bower added me as a friend on Facebook and reeled me in when he started messaging me to be "friends".
After a couple messages, he began asking me if I wanted to join his company and started namedropping all of these names I had never heard of... like Robbie Hendricks, Dennis Wong and Michael Mo. He started storytelling about how these great guys had made so much money with IXP. Their trick is that once they reel you in, they have you meet all of these other people who had "made it big" telling great stories of how one guy drives several miles, lives out of his van while building his "network"... or in other words his pyramid. For this same guy who has built such a big "network" with IXP and has made so much money for so many years, I later ran into him working part time at Olive Garden.
Another guy who is in this IXP ring was also talked up to have made so much money... but I later found out he also works part time at Starbucks as a barista.
Nothing against working at Starbucks or Olive Garden, but if these folks had made such a great living, why did they need the part time jobs? They don't tell you about these folks' part-time jobs because they want to paint a paradise in your head.
After meeting the rest of the IXP members, they all act as if you are part of the family. Once you feel connected, you don't want to leave is what they are hoping for.
Once I signed on, paying $700 to start this up, I asked to see this amazing product.... For the two months or so that I was with this "company", I hadn't seen it... Everytime I asked Joe Bower to see it so that I can start learning about the product and sell it, he kept changing the subject.
They feed on your network of friends and coach you with pressuring methods. Prior to these "meetings" I had set up with my friends so that my friends can sit and chat with Joe Bower about IXP, Joe had said to make him sound like the greatest manager EVER so that my friends would automatically have the notion that this Joe Bower guy has had years of experience and should be well respected.
Why do they want this you ask? So that people automatically think that this IXP "sales manager" knows what he's talking about.. so that any skepticism leaves the prospect's mind. During these coaching periods, I was taught to be super enthusiastic and excited about this product and also say how the "leaders" at IXP has made so much money.
During these meetings, the sales pitch comprised of 5% about the product and 95% about how to make money off of your friends.
I began losing many friends through this IXP process, because they didn't like the pressure (that I was coached to apply to my friends if they refuse to meet with Joe to talk about IXP) and also they found that this was a very fishy "business" and that it was a pyramid scheme. When Joe saw that I was getting irritated with this system and didn't want to lose anymore friends, he had said that there is another way to cheat the system.
IXP had allowed a member to put in another $700 (on top of the initial $700) to create an arm on the network tree (pyramid). Meaning, initially the goal was to sign up only two people. However, I could buy out one of my two members by paying another $700. I don't know why I did this, but at this point, I think I was very much brainwashed. This additional $700 essentially made Joe Bower some money on his pyramid.
After losing maybe 5 friends and $1400, I had decided to drop IXP along with Joe Bower and the rest of the IXP cult.
After I left a voicemail saying that I didn't want to be part of this anymore, Joe and one of his IXP buddies took turns calling me one after the other for 20 minutes straight to see if I would pick up after hearing annoying rings. I did not pick up their phone calls, defriended all of these folks off of facebook and myspace... and my life had significantly improved ever since!
I forgot to mention that during my stay at IXP, they kept saying that their product launch will be worldwide and they will go public the following summer. I believe that following summer, IXP had changed names due to the high volume of people getting scammed and posting their experience on the web.
Also, some current news, Joe Bower has moved on to a new way of scamming folks at YOR Health. Needless to say, YOR Health has the same amount of scam postings. No surprise, because YOR Health has many of the same folks running it.