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  #37  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:40 AM
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bogie bogie is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisan23
Bogie - what do you think about how the law was passed? It wasn't passed based on facts or statistics, but stories and lies that were made up. A lot of the information that was given to congress at the time about marijuana was made up, and shortly after the law was passed there was a study done that showed that.
I'm not arguing that it's a good law or even a just law. I'm not the one to discuss facts or statistics with because I have no knowledge. But there are many laws that are not based on facts or statistics. Look at all the laws today on the books to provide security at our airports. These were passed as kneejerk reactions to 9/11. Not based on any facts or statistics about airport terrorism. In fact those laws were inacted because of one terrorist incedent. Again, if you feel that laws on marijuana should be relaxed you need to select candidates that feel the same way. Politics rarely makes sense.
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  #38  
Old 04-20-2007, 03:47 AM
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jigglepete jigglepete is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
Again, if you feel that laws on marijuana should be relaxed you need to select candidates that feel the same way. Politics rarely makes sense.
Only if you are planning to vote Libertarian, they, as far as I can tell, are the only party that supports legalization, as part of their platform no less (just not TOO publicly). Of course then you will have to wade through the typical political BS about all the other issues, 'cause as far as I can tell, they are trying to corner the market on wishy-washy. Of course my info could be outdated too :rolleyes:

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  #39  
Old 04-20-2007, 07:31 AM
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kazza kazza is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglepete
Only if you are planning to vote Libertarian, they, as far as I can tell, are the only party that supports legalization, as part of their platform no less (just not TOO publicly). Of course then you will have to wade through the typical political BS about all the other issues, 'cause as far as I can tell, they are trying to corner the market on wishy-washy. Of course my info could be outdated too :rolleyes:
Yes. Its too hard to vote on a single issue. You realisitically only have 2, maybe 3 choices. Each choice represents a 'set' of issues. If I wanted to ban abortion and legalise marijouna then one way or another my opinion doesn't get fairly represented in the decision making process.



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  #40  
Old 04-20-2007, 06:06 PM
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bogie bogie is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglepete
Only if you are planning to vote Libertarian, they, as far as I can tell, are the only party that supports legalization, as part of their platform no less (just not TOO publicly). Of course then you will have to wade through the typical political BS about all the other issues, 'cause as far as I can tell, they are trying to corner the market on wishy-washy. Of course my info could be outdated too :rolleyes:
I've looked into the libertarian party and although I understand their stance on marijuana, at it makes sense, I cannot wrap my arms around many other concepts of their platform, so I remain independent. The real problem with politics, at least american politics, is that the two parties have become so strong that it's difficult for a third party to make any headway. And most of the third parties that try are either far left of left or far right of right. With so many of us fence sitters, a party of centrists would make some waves. But then again, even among us, single issues such as legalizing MJ would have it's backers and detractors. I just doubt that any one person can really influence things much regardless of how much I hear how my one vote counts.
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  #41  
Old 04-20-2007, 11:29 PM
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jigglepete jigglepete is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazza
Yes. Its too hard to vote on a single issue. You realisitically only have 2, maybe 3 choices. Each choice represents a 'set' of issues. If I wanted to ban abortion and legalise marijouna then one way or another my opinion doesn't get fairly represented in the decision making process.

Which is a problem with a (mostly) two party system. Each side picks the issues that they think will attract votes, but as you point out, some times people (even some politicians) have to pick which issues they want to address while usually dropping other important issues between the cracks, so to speak, because not every issue, party to party, is written in stone..."all you [fill in the blank] types think this, or do this" when in fact most humans embrace ideals held by both parties...It's confusing... :confused:

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  #42  
Old 04-20-2007, 11:40 PM
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jigglepete jigglepete is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie
I've looked into the libertarian party and although I understand their stance on marijuana, at it makes sense, I cannot wrap my arms around many other concepts of their platform, so I remain independent. The real problem with politics, at least american politics, is that the two parties have become so strong that it's difficult for a third party to make any headway. And most of the third parties that try are either far left of left or far right of right. With so many of us fence sitters, a party of centrists would make some waves. But then again, even among us, single issues such as legalizing MJ would have it's backers and detractors. I just doubt that any one person can really influence things much regardless of how much I hear how my one vote counts.
And, you here that, "your vote counts" BS from all angles, all the time. You probabally know how I feel about George Carlin's stances on most things...I think this is the first year that I am considering his advise of not voting...But, at the same time I still (naively) feel that my vote can make a difference, and that could just be because voting has been ingrained in me since I turned 18. The Libertarian party has an interesting stance on government intrusion into our lives, but again, I know that some of their ideas are simply not workable...and whether or not I agree with all of it, at least they try...is that enough? Probably not :(

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  #43  
Old 04-20-2007, 11:41 PM
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jigglepete jigglepete is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

PS... HAPPY 4/20 ;) :cool: I'll see you at 4:20 :D

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  #44  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:25 PM
The Last Man The Last Man is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

The "War on Drugs" is a complete and total scam. It's also an abject failure, just as Alcohol Prohibition was. Drugs once were completely legal in this country, and there was no mass wave of criminality or chaos as a result:

The Drug Crisis

by Harry Browne

Few people are aware that before World War I, a 9-year-old girl could walk into a drug store and buy heroin.

That's right – heroin. She didn't need a doctor's prescription or a note from her parents. She could buy it right off the shelf. Bayer and other large drug companies sold heroin as a pain-reliever and sedative in measured doses – just the way aspirin is sold today. Cocaine, opium, and marijuana were readily available as well. No Drug Enforcement Agency, no undercover cops, no "Parents – the Anti-Drug" commercials. Just people going about their own business is whatever way they chose.

Seeing today's never-ending crisis of teenagers using drugs, you can imagine how bad it must have been when there were no laws to stop children – or adults – from using drugs. But, in fact, there was no drug crisis at all. A few people were addicted to heroin or cocaine, just as a few people today are addicted to sleeping pills or Big Macs, but there was no national uproar about it. Such people, if they wanted to break their habits, could freely consult doctors without fear of being sent to prison.

There were no black-market drug dealers preying on school children. There were no gang wars over drug profits, because there were no drug gangs. After all, who would buy dangerous drugs from a gangster at outrageous prices when he could buy safe drugs made by a reputable drug company at modest prices?

Americans got a taste of what a Drug War might be like when they endorsed the 18th Amendment invoking alcohol Prohibition in 1919. The result was gang warfare, people dying from drinking bathtub gin, corruption in police departments, and non-violent citizens sent to prison for indulging in a vice that was strictly personal. Most Americans rejoiced when Prohibition was repealed in 1933. The chances of them supporting another such Constitutional amendment within the next 50 years were slim to none.

So the federal government didn't dare try amending the Constitution when politicians and bureaucrats decided to reinstate all the trappings of Prohibition in a new Drug War. This War That Will Never End was begun in stages – probably starting with the rarely-enforced Harrison Act of 1914. In my recollection, the Drug War as we know it today began during the 1960s, moved into second and third gears during the Nixon administration of 1969–1974, and shifted into overdrive during the Reagan administration of 1981–1989.

The Drug War has been easily the greatest cause of violent crime in American history: Gangs fighting over monopoly territories, children killed in drive-by shootings, families in the inner city living with the constant sound of gunfire outside their doors, police killing innocent people in misguided drug raids, crooked cops helping to spread poisonous drugs, non-violent citizens sent to prison to be terrorized by violent prisoners – none of which would exist in the absence of the federal drug laws.

There is nothing that could make our cities safer than repealing the drug laws – all of them.

Does the idea of heroin, cocaine, and opium being sold over the counter sound too ludicrous to be true? You can check it out for yourself. A marvelous website, maintained by the University of Buffalo's Addiction Research Unit, shows the actual labels and ads from patent medicines of the 19th and early-20th centuries. You can see the claims made, the ingredients used, and the acceptance of what so many Americans fear today.

That era of innocence didn't end because America was threatened by a drug crisis. It was ended in the traditional way – by politicians looking for new worlds to conquer, politicians who have no interest in examining dispassionately the chaos they cause, and who will never face a single personal consequence for the lives they have ruined.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/browne/browne32.html

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  #45  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:27 PM
The Last Man The Last Man is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

Marijuana Arrests in 2004: Record High 771,608

Yes, forget terrorists, forget illegal immigrants, forget murderers, rapists, and thieves, let's lock up the non-violent pot-smokers. Wow, what a great use of law enforcement resources...not.

Marijuana Arrests For Year 2004: 771,608, Record High; FBI Report Reveals


Pot Smokers Arrested In America At A Rate Of One Every 41 Seconds

Washington, DC: Police arrested an estimated 771,608 persons for marijuana violations in 2004, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprised 44.2 percent of all drug arrests in the United States.
"These numbers belie the myth that police do not target and arrest minor marijuana offenders," said NORML Executive Director Allen St. Pierre, who noted that at current rates, a marijuana smoker is arrested every 41 seconds in America. "This effort is a tremendous waste of criminal justice resources that diverts law enforcement personnel away from focusing on serious and violent crime, including the war on terrorism."

Of those charged with marijuana violations, 89 percent - some 684,319 Americans - were charged with possession only. The remaining 87,289 individuals were charged with "sale/manufacture," a category that includes all cultivation offenses - even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use. In past years, approximately 30 percent of those arrested were age 19 or younger.

"Present policies have done little if anything to decrease marijuana's availability or dissuade youth from trying it," St. Pierre said, noting that a majority of young people in the U.S. now report that they have easier access to pot than alcohol or tobacco.

The total number of marijuana arrests in the U.S. for 2004 far exceeded the total number of arrests in the U.S. for all violent crimes combined, including murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault.

Marijuana arrests have more than doubled since 1993.

"Arresting adults who smoke marijuana responsibly needlessly destroys the lives of tens of thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens each year," St. Pierre said, adding that over 8 million Americans have been arrested on marijuana charges in the past decade. During this same time, arrests for cocaine and heroin have declined sharply, indicating that increased enforcement of marijuana laws is being achieved at the expense of enforcing laws against the possession and trafficking of more dangerous drugs.

St. Pierre concluded that "with nearly 17 million citizens arrested on marijuana-related charges since 1965, is now not the time for the state and federal governments to finally consider legally controlling marijuana via taxation? Is not such a public policy preferable to the current one where government arrests an extraordinary amount of citizens for an adult behavior that is not deviant, or, for that matter, dissimilar than consuming products that contain alcohol?"

YEAR MARIJUANA ARRESTS
2004 771,608
2003 755,187
2002 697,082
2001 723,627
2000 734,498
1999 704,812
1998 682,885
1997 695,200
1996 641,642
1995 588,963
1994 499,122
1993 380,689

For more information, please contact NORML's Executive Director Allen St. Pierre, at (202) 483-5500. To view NORML's latest and most comprehensive report and analysis of marijuana arrests in the United States, visit:
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6411

With arrest numbers rising for marijuana consumers, citizens need to know what the penalties are in their state NORML has created a one-stop-shop for citizens wanting marijuana penalty info at:
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516

Marijuana laws can not reform themselves, and certainly not without caring citizens getting involved. Please join and support NORML's long standing reform efforts by visiting:

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3443

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  #46  
Old 07-19-2007, 06:21 AM
Pandoradox Pandoradox is offline
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Re: The War On Marijuana

Just a few comments.

To the guy with all the Chinese Medicine THEORY. While much of what you said is true (smoked for 30 years and I am the paranoid yin, thanks), you over generalize and try to foist this THEORY AS SCIENTIFIC FACT. It isn't. It may be SOME OF THE TIME but there are no absolutes here.

If this was truly scientific you would take into consideration that drugs are only catalysts. What if a person has a lousy personality, is a slacker, or whatever - you blame pot for his actions - NO - I blame him and his lousy personality which happens to be manifest when he smokes weed.

Am I self conscious and uncomfortable because I smoke pot? no it's because of my past experiences in my lifetime -my 'inner child' if you will. Pot just manifests who I am inside. (But I admit that is one reason I grew not to like being stoned except once in a while in a controlled environment).

I was able to stop smoking with no 'intervention', treatment or anything else - also able when I was much younger to quit speed, psychedelics, etc, WHICH CAME BEFORE smoking weed (They were the gateway). no problem.

Quit drinking (which was only socially) no problem - can have a few glasses of wine a few times a year. (to be fair it makes me sick the next day so not hard to cool it)

You say let's not compare alcohol to weed. OK let's not. Let's compare tobacco to weed.

I can't go an hour without a cigarette. I can sit here and literally kill myself smoking cigarettes for as long as I please. I can't stand it. I hate it. But I can't stop.

Unless someone I loved said I had to stop, then I know I could and would. Until then I will smoke, stupid as I am for doing this. NOW THIS IS ADDICTION.

So my point is this. Double standard. No logic. Pot is no more harmful than cigarettes, yet I can't smoke it legally. Cigarettes kill millions of people all the time, but I can do that legally.

Don't give me the where do you draw the line should cocaine be legal - that is BS - of course not. People have seizures, heart attacks, are violent, etc, from cocaine - so no.

Pot should be legal and we could be making big bucks from the pot harvest if it were legal, regulated and taxed like everything else.

Put the mobster/violent smugglers out of business and let us grow our own crops.

For many decades people have known it is the liquor lobby and the textiles industry that doesn't want us to have legalized pot. I would say also the pharmaceutical industry as well - all powerful - all almost necessarily corrupt. (powerful and corrupt seem to be synonyms when you are talking goverment/regulations, etec)

I wonder if our government has a reason to keep the smugglers in business??? (although I can't imagine what).

Pot should be legal and in my book it is.



Last edited by Pandoradox : 07-19-2007 at 06:25 AM.
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