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  #127  
Old 10-23-2006, 07:04 PM
Phinnly Slash Buster's Avatar
Phinnly Slash Buster Phinnly Slash Buster is offline
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwall
NOT TRUE AT ALL!
over 80% of the NT is a reiteration of the old..
This is a fact not my opinion. Do the research and you will see....
Depends on how you look at it. If you examine the OT line by line I’m sure you will find passages that Jesus agreed with. The one thing he totally rejected was the intended purpose of the OT, the establishment of a dynasty, a vehicle used to establish a power base passed on from one generation of rulers, father to son, to maintain political power and control.


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  #128  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:27 PM
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
Depends on how you look at it. If you examine the OT line by line I’m sure you will find passages that Jesus agreed with. The one thing he totally rejected was the intended purpose of the OT, the establishment of a dynasty, a vehicle used to establish a power base passed on from one generation of rulers, father to son, to maintain political power and control.
Nice, I agree.

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  #129  
Old 10-24-2006, 12:43 AM
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
Depends on how you look at it. If you examine the OT line by line I’m sure you will find passages that Jesus agreed with. The one thing he totally rejected was the intended purpose of the OT, the establishment of a dynasty, a vehicle used to establish a power base passed on from one generation of rulers, father to son, to maintain political power and control.
Right, and once the Messiah (Christ) came into the world, the ultimate sacrifice had been made through Christ's blood . So therefore, Christians do not observe the sacrifices and rituals required by the OT as the J E Ws do, since the crucifixion of Christ (the Lamb of God) fulfilled our requirements (He paid the price).

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  #130  
Old 10-26-2006, 06:24 PM
tony_jenn
 
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

true post, catholism is based on paganism with mary worship in place of diana the goddess, all the worlds religions have a blashphemous mother of god worship which goes totally against Jesus's teachings in the holy bible,KJV beware other translations watered down and sinner friendly gospel. Anyone who wants can go to chick publications and find out for themselves about the vatican, and read Revelations chapter 17 and see that the great ***** of babylon is in fact the vatican and the pope the great false prophet.Jesus said "i am the way the life and the truth and and noone comes onto God the Father without Jesus, it is a free gift through grace are we saved not of good works or religous rituals. roman catholism is mixed with baal worship and diana worship and is dragging the world into hell.

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  #131  
Old 10-26-2006, 07:17 PM
truthbearer
 
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwall
NOT TRUE AT ALL!
over 80% of the NT is a reiteration of the old..
This is a fact not my opinion. Do the research and you will see....
Many of the new tesatament I believe and again this could be semantics, in other words we are saying the same thing differently.

All of the Old testament conceptually speaking or the picture it paints and the many metaphors and symbols use is a "foreshadowing" of Christ to come.

The new testament is the old testament "fulfilled" through Christs life, death, resurrection and assension.

Old testament concepts and life style beliefs are not God's will anymore, for the perfect sacrifice His son which was the mission of God from the beginning before the foundation of the world was formed, for He knew before he created man that He would have to die for man in his infinite wisdom and foreknowledge only God himself possesses.

The new testament is the command we are to live by all other incorporations of the old testament is directly agaisnt God's will and won't be accepted as a true practice of worship to him as Hebrews states. it is called Syncretism which many false teachers of today try layden down many christians with..

The best example of mixing the old with new is the concept and practice of Tithing..It is not a new testament principle and not required. It comes out of the book of Malachi. But this concept is a great example of false preaching. it is not false enough to warrant a cult system but there are many others that can and are so syncretized that it abolishes the works of Christ and makes it none affect.

TB

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  #132  
Old 10-26-2006, 07:36 PM
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbearer

The best example of mixing the old with new is the concept and practice of Tithing..It is not a new testament principle and not required. It comes out of the book of Malachi. But this concept is a great example of false preaching. it is not false enough to warrant a cult system but there are many others that can and are so syncretized that it abolishes the works of Christ and makes it none affect.

TB
I think New Testament saints still gave their tithes and offerings to support their groups. They didn't go to a church and study, but to each others homes and spread the word that way.

But now that there are churches and not so much the home bible studies how are the churches supposed to pay the bills if the members aren't expected to tithe and make offerings?

I know, only about 20% of any church membership actually does this but still, isn't it a valid concern?

Lady Mod
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seek it elsewhere.
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  #133  
Old 10-26-2006, 07:49 PM
truthbearer
 
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by sojustask
I think New Testament saints still gave their tithes and offerings to support their groups. They didn't go to a church and study, but to each others homes and spread the word that way.

But now that there are churches and not so much the home bible studies how are the churches supposed to pay the bills if the members aren't expected to tithe and make offerings?

I know, only about 20% of any church membership actually does this but still, isn't it a valid concern?

Lady Mod
You have good points..This is what I am saying ..what is the truth of the matter..

Before I pose a question to you I will answer your question directly.

We are suppose to support our churches with money just as you would any organization you participate in and gives to you in the form of service unto you..

But the question isn't if you give it is why you give? And by what scriptural authority.

That's where the error and truth divide in the pulpit..We are to give, but we are to give as we are led in our hearts to give. We are under no obligation or ritual to give anything like that of the command to give 10 percent and the blessing of the curse is the devourer will be rebuked.

The new testament concept I believe the word teaches is that God owns 100 percent of your finances. WE are stewards and give out of love..So really it is why we give where the teaching in the pulpit is error.

Without getting too long I would challenge you to read very closely the very first part of Malachi,,you will notice the people that were in aggregious error and disobedience were the PRIESTS, not the people.

It say's O ye priests, not O ye people. The people out of the LAW were giving but the priests or pastors, so to speak were harboring their sacrifices and tithes unto themselves, literally robbing God..

So, that's why God say's how do you rob me? You rob me of your tithes and offerings..but again he speaks to the priests in the OLD Testament.

Lastly if you notice the word tithe is no longer used in the new testament among any of the apostles..the reason is they had to work hard to eliminate all J E Wish sanctions that were in place before Christ for the purpose of not mixing the old with the new even that of circumcision..It was imperative they did not taint the New LAW of Grace, Not the Old Law of the Letter.

If we give out of Love, chances are overall giving will be way beyond a meager 10 percent, but our love is not based on that , but the expresssion of gratitude,,again the teaching must not compel others to do out of obligation like that of a mandate, which the pulpit preaches in most churches today.

TB

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  #134  
Old 10-26-2006, 07:59 PM
truthbearer
 
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

LM, correction!! Beginning in the second chapte of malachi, The prophet addresses the people who are under God's judgement.

In the 3rd chapter references the penalty or the blessing of obedience to the prophet or the curse if the voice of the prophet is not heard...

Beginnining in Malachi 3:8. The Instruction of the Lord to the PRIESTS, not the people.

TB

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  #135  
Old 10-26-2006, 08:15 PM
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sojustask sojustask is offline
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbearer
LM, correction!! Beginning in the second chapte of malachi, The prophet addresses the people who are under God's judgement.

In the 3rd chapter references the penalty or the blessing of obedience to the prophet or the curse if the voice of the prophet is not heard...

Beginnining in Malachi 3:8. The Instruction of the Lord to the PRIESTS, not the people.

TB
OK, I'll read it at home this evening.

Aren't Old Testament promises still relative and apply to todays' New Testament saints?

In other words, I don't know the verses off the top of my head, it's been awhile since I've discussed the topic of tithing with anyone, but isn't there a promise from God to those who faithfully tithe? I think if I remember right, I was told by my pastor at the time that this particular promise was for all men, not just Israel and not just for the Old Testament.

Your thoughts?

Lady Mod
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When we are unable to find tranquility within ourselves, it is useless to
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  #136  
Old 10-26-2006, 08:16 PM
Phinnly Slash Buster's Avatar
Phinnly Slash Buster Phinnly Slash Buster is offline
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbearer
LM, correction!! Beginning in the second chapte of malachi, The prophet addresses the people who are under God's judgement.

In the 3rd chapter references the penalty or the blessing of obedience to the prophet or the curse if the voice of the prophet is not heard...

Beginnining in Malachi 3:8. The Instruction of the Lord to the PRIESTS, not the people.

TB
Read the NT. Christ invalidated this in his teachings. The OT was used to create an earthly kingdom that Christ totally rejected. Christ does not speak to us through prophets OR PRIESTS but speaks to us directly.

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  #137  
Old 10-26-2006, 08:42 PM
truthbearer
 
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
Read the NT. Christ invalidated this in his teachings. The OT was used to create an earthly kingdom that Christ totally rejected. Christ does not speak to us through prophets OR PRIESTS but speaks to us directly.
Oh ,yes indeed you are correct. I don't know if you realize that my response was to LM as to why tithes is not a new testament concept at all, and malachi is where the pastors get the reason why new testament believers should tithe..

Hope that clairifies it..and thanks for your response everything you said I confir with as well..

TB
:)

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  #138  
Old 10-27-2006, 12:39 AM
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Phinnly Slash Buster Phinnly Slash Buster is offline
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

truth bearer,
Sorry I missed your point there, I did not read your previous post, but that brings up an interesting question.
It is my understanding that tithing was the foundation on which the church as an institution was established. I can’t seem to find resources on this confirming what I have read on the subject many years ago, maybe you can help.
The first Christians gave freely of what they had to those less fortunate and did not need a ‘Church’ to function as an agent to accomplish this, and to officially sanction what is to be considered chartable in the eyes of God.
It became inconvenient for some wealthy Christians to open their homes to dirty and disheveled travelers, the homeless as we would call them today. To satisfy this objection the ‘Church’ slowly established as an institution acting as an agency to take care of the poor, infirmed, elderly etc.
Financing this operation required capital and tithing was born.
I agree with your previous posts and Christ made no mention of establishing a church as an institution.
Interesting insight into ‘ upon this rock’

.In verse 18, Jesus says, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter." Jesus says here, you are not only Simon, son of Jona (flesh identity), but you are also Peter (spiritual identity), the name that Jesus gave Simon by Divine pronouncement. This is because these passages are all concerning revelation from above. Then Jesus says, "And upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

So, the question would be: Since Jesus gave Simon the new name Peter (rock), does this mean Jesus is saying His church is built upon Peter? No. Jesus is saying His church is built on revelation from above; that is, from God in heaven about the true identity of Jesus. Whenever Jesus did anything, He only did what the Father had revealed to Him. John 5:19 reads:

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do: for what things he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.'"

So when Jesus gave Simon Bar-Jona the new name "Cephas," or "Peter," it was at the direction of and according to the Heavenly Father's will. And when Simon Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God, it was at God's direction and according to the Heavenly Father's will that Peter had received the knowledge of who Jesus really was. One must understand the subject matter at hand is - Who is Jesus?…………
http://home.flash.net/~thinkman/arti...sus-church.htm

I have found that many people misinterpret Jesus’ statement to Peter. He did not commission Peter to hire a crew of Stone Masons. This much should be clear to anyone.
I also read it to understand that the ‘Church’ or God’s house is all of creation, and your spiritual center is always with you even in the humblest of places.
In other words everything and everybody is truly sacred in God’s eyes.

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  #139  
Old 10-27-2006, 01:05 AM
truthbearer
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by sojustask
OK, I'll read it at home this evening.

Aren't Old Testament promises still relative and apply to todays' New Testament saints?

In other words, I don't know the verses off the top of my head, it's been awhile since I've discussed the topic of tithing with anyone, but isn't there a promise from God to those who faithfully tithe? I think if I remember right, I was told by my pastor at the time that this particular promise was for all men, not just Israel and not just for the Old Testament.

Your thoughts?

Lady Mod

Hi LM,

You know quite frankly, I do not recall anywhere in the bible where there was a special blessing to those that tithed or gave.

There was indeed a special blessing you mention of which is the book of Malachi every preacher good and bad I know that use to compel the people to give.

It say's if you tithe and make your offerings as the Lord commands, I will open the windows of heaven and will rebuke the dovourerer...and such..

So, basically, the windows of heaven imply all of God's goodness upon you based upon the tithe, and the devourer is related to the devil, which I am sure is at least God's judgement on the priests for that which they withheld from God, God made sure was devoured either releasing Satan to do his work or a simple judgement of God by his own hand is how I understood it.

I tend to read the bible conceptually if I can..which demonstrates many times the spirit behind the command ....

AS in Giving, I doubt very realistically, just because there is no tithe commanded, that God abolished giving anymore that we are in liberty and grace and the law is not upon us does it mean we can keep on sinning and behaving any we want because we have the liberty to do so...

Therefore with all these open ended allowances that God gives us why does He seem to give us such magnitude and leeway of choice..

The answer is Love I believe,,it is giving us a chance to give out of our hearts rather than out of a command..similar to that of your child ..how would you feel if your child gave to you because they thought they had to, and they thought that was the only way to get out of you what they wanted..

Now, if that is the case it becomes and many times does become an art of manipulation which is many times preached in the pulpit why you better give if you want God's best.

Lastly, it fits the puzzle regarding this concept of God's heart..He say's don't give anything at all if you give begrudgingly,,and quite frankly as humans do you want anything from someone you love much if they only give to you out of obligation...that ruins the gift..

Finally , nothing we have God needs and legally He owns it all including the skin on our backs..for it is of the earth..the earth is the lords and the fullness thereof.

Why outside of practicality like funding a church would he want us to give to him?? Because simply it pleases him to see someone love Him so much to give to him whatever it is..money, time, talent etc. It is the love of the gift that is received into the heart of God that He doesn't have or commands us to give..

The one thing God does not own is our will,,,so if we will to give not our gift ,but the love behind the gift,now,,that is the key to his pleasure, for we have given him our love..and that is what is received something He doesn't own ..and surely it pleases him much...He want our love,,the gift is secondary..or that is what makes the gift genuine and real..

Does that make sense??

TB

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  #140  
Old 10-27-2006, 01:31 AM
truthbearer
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
truth bearer,
Sorry I missed your point there, I did not read your previous post, but that brings up an interesting question.
It is my understanding that tithing was the foundation on which the church as an institution was established. I can’t seem to find resources on this confirming what I have read on the subject many years ago, maybe you can help.
The first Christians gave freely of what they had to those less fortunate and did not need a ‘Church’ to function as an agent to accomplish this, and to officially sanction what is to be considered chartable in the eyes of God.
It became inconvenient for some wealthy Christians to open their homes to dirty and disheveled travelers, the homeless as we would call them today. To satisfy this objection the ‘Church’ slowly established as an institution acting as an agency to take care of the poor, infirmed, elderly etc.
Financing this operation required capital and tithing was born.
I agree with your previous posts and Christ made no mention of establishing a church as an institution.
Interesting insight into ‘ upon this rock’

.In verse 18, Jesus says, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter." Jesus says here, you are not only Simon, son of Jona (flesh identity), but you are also Peter (spiritual identity), the name that Jesus gave Simon by Divine pronouncement. This is because these passages are all concerning revelation from above. Then Jesus says, "And upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

So, the question would be: Since Jesus gave Simon the new name Peter (rock), does this mean Jesus is saying His church is built upon Peter? No. Jesus is saying His church is built on revelation from above; that is, from God in heaven about the true identity of Jesus. Whenever Jesus did anything, He only did what the Father had revealed to Him. John 5:19 reads:

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do: for what things he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.'"

So when Jesus gave Simon Bar-Jona the new name "Cephas," or "Peter," it was at the direction of and according to the Heavenly Father's will. And when Simon Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God, it was at God's direction and according to the Heavenly Father's will that Peter had received the knowledge of who Jesus really was. One must understand the subject matter at hand is - Who is Jesus?…………
http://home.flash.net/~thinkman/arti...sus-church.htm

I have found that many people misinterpret Jesus’ statement to Peter. He did not commission Peter to hire a crew of Stone Masons. This much should be clear to anyone.
I also read it to understand that the ‘Church’ or God’s house is all of creation, and your spiritual center is always with you even in the humblest of places.
In other words everything and everybody is truly sacred in God’s eyes.
Yes, I believe you are totally accurate regarding Peter's revelation that the spirit of God revealed this amazing revelation to Him..

Here are some of my insights into that very thing..now remember too, shortly after that awesome revelation He received, and the awesome blessing of Jesus's word to him that on this "Rock", I will build my church...The "Rock", is the "VOICE OF GOD" unto all born again believers..by the power of the Holy Spirit!!

Remember now, Jesus still lived under the OLD LAW and it was not fulfilled yet fulfilled, only on the cross was the OLD LAW finished..as He said It is finished, fulfilling the whole will of God the Father..

Peter received an advanced blessing all would receive in the second chapter of ACTS..The baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is God in you the hope of Glory, the release of the Holy Spirit that Jesus told his disciples they must wait for but do not have.

They only had jesus and his everyday word to rely on they still did not have the third person of the trinity live and dwell within their soul as we do today..He had to die and rise before the Holy Spirit can be released to operate in every believer..which is the mystery of Christ the world cannot see !!!

The Holy spirit is our Rock..that the church is built upon...what makes it rock that cannot be moved unlike anyother so called religion is the fact that the Holy Spirit resides literally in the vessel not made with hands the human body, which we know as the temple of the Holy Spirit!!!

That again is evidence to me this is the Rock..Peter just received a taste of it not the baptism of it yet..but Jesus knew by his answer, you are the Christ...because only the Holy Spirit could convey the reality of that fact to the human heart..It appears The Father selected Peter as the one who would receive this awesome blessing among the twelve.

Lastly, Jesus said I must leave so the Spirit can come..Another interesting point,,they only knew jesus in his flesh which was so important, because now we have EYE WITNESS testimony that this Jesus who would die and leave had on RECORD, in eye witness form and the four gospels that proved Jesus was and is God!! and His testimony on this earth is all truth!!

There is more that can be said, but I fear getting into personal persuation and opinion rather than fact, which is what I hope I was able to convey.

So, those are the reasons why I believe what I believe regarding the point of the rock..yes indeed He most certainly was not a mason,,but He definitely was one that heard from the one that was not flesh and blood which is the foretelling how Christ was going to continue to live after he died..He would now live everywhere as the omnipresent one, through the third PERSON of the trinity,,the Holy Spirit.

TB



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  #141  
Old 10-27-2006, 01:56 AM
truthbearer
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
truth bearer,
Sorry I missed your point there, I did not read your previous post, but that brings up an interesting question.
It is my understanding that tithing was the foundation on which the church as an institution was established. I can’t seem to find resources on this confirming what I have read on the subject many years ago, maybe you can help.
The first Christians gave freely of what they had to those less fortunate and did not need a ‘Church’ to function as an agent to accomplish this, and to officially sanction what is to be considered chartable in the eyes of God.
It became inconvenient for some wealthy Christians to open their homes to dirty and disheveled travelers, the homeless as we would call them today. To satisfy this objection the ‘Church’ slowly established as an institution acting as an agency to take care of the poor, infirmed, elderly etc.
Financing this operation required capital and tithing was born.
I agree with your previous posts and Christ made no mention of establishing a church as an institution.
Interesting insight into ‘ upon this rock’

.In verse 18, Jesus says, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter." Jesus says here, you are not only Simon, son of Jona (flesh identity), but you are also Peter (spiritual identity), the name that Jesus gave Simon by Divine pronouncement. This is because these passages are all concerning revelation from above. Then Jesus says, "And upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

So, the question would be: Since Jesus gave Simon the new name Peter (rock), does this mean Jesus is saying His church is built upon Peter? No. Jesus is saying His church is built on revelation from above; that is, from God in heaven about the true identity of Jesus. Whenever Jesus did anything, He only did what the Father had revealed to Him. John 5:19 reads:

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do: for what things he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.'"

So when Jesus gave Simon Bar-Jona the new name "Cephas," or "Peter," it was at the direction of and according to the Heavenly Father's will. And when Simon Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God, it was at God's direction and according to the Heavenly Father's will that Peter had received the knowledge of who Jesus really was. One must understand the subject matter at hand is - Who is Jesus?…………
http://home.flash.net/~thinkman/arti...sus-church.htm

I have found that many people misinterpret Jesus’ statement to Peter. He did not commission Peter to hire a crew of Stone Masons. This much should be clear to anyone.
I also read it to understand that the ‘Church’ or God’s house is all of creation, and your spiritual center is always with you even in the humblest of places.
In other words everything and everybody is truly sacred in God’s eyes.

Tithing is a J E Wish old law custom and command, definitely not a new testament pracitce.

Remember the twelve tribes of Israel was huge!! I think well over a million!! That is a big city isn't it??

So, with that in mind they have laws like we do today,,interesting side note..USA practices the Judaeo Christian Ethic..We are a nation of LAWS..and we pay for those laws in taxes yes???

So, in the day's of tithes of the people they can be considered as taxes, they paid to the House of Levi or tribe of Levi which were the Priests of that day who were the stewards of those funds.

So, this is how I understand they the tribe of God, not the church of God, for the church is founded through Jesus christ new testament terminology not OLD.

Now the Levi's were disobeying God and God's judgment was upon them, so God sent His prophet Malachi to give them grave warning..

The beautiful thing and picture of this book ,,noted in the last book of the old testament right before mathew begins is the fact the Levis repented and did what was right in the eyes of our Living God, so unlike many of the other books of the bible where God demolished them and punished them severely..

Now the danger here is we are not to mix old testament PRACTICE with the new..the old wasn't abolished but fulfilled through Christ meaning the fulfillment ended the practice of the law, for now we have the person of the law living within us, and no need for the law or it's practices..

If we do as new testament believers mix the old with the new we break the law of grace that Jesus put an end to..now if we practice one law we must practice them all..

This is called Syncretism, or judiaism..which is forbidden and harshly rebuked by new testament practice..this is what false teachers bring into the game and destroy the works and work of Christ. It is a serious matter for sure and should not be overlooked or minimized..

Most false teachers today will layden down their people with paradigm shifts that do not apply to our new testament faith!!! They are wolves among us and they must be corrected, rebuked or even thrown out for they are not of God.

This leads to a very serious topic I will not get into because it is beyond the scope of your topic you addressed with me..

God bless you sir,,appreciate you accutness to the TRUTH!!

TB : ) " Alway's be a Berean"

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  #142  
Old 11-04-2006, 11:03 PM
specialvessel specialvessel is offline
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Christ birth was the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Tishri, 6 B.C.
There were no "Wise Men" at his birth.
The crucifixion took place on Wednesday around 9 A.M.
Christ arose on Saturday evening before sunset.

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  #143  
Old 11-05-2006, 10:14 AM
lexx's Avatar
lexx lexx is offline
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwall
(FYI- i have not read this entire thread)
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
so everyones goin to heaven after all!?but what about john the baptist!?he didn't qualify!?hehe!!...just askin....

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  #144  
Old 10-26-2012, 12:22 AM
Paladin87 Paladin87 is offline
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Re: Christian Traditions are More Pagan than Christian

Definitely Pagan, which is why Jehovah Witnesses do not celebrate them. When Rome got its hands on Christianity, many of the Roman gods were "Christianized" and politics were also thrown in- so that the people would accept it easier. The same happened when Rome forced it upon the pagans, the early people of Ireland and Britain- they put some of their pagan beliefs into it as well, so did the Vikings.

I really don't understand how anyone could think Jesus was born on Dec 25. The date of his birth isn't even given in the bible, but if one would have to guess, it would be on J E Wish New Year, in September 16/18. Its the coming of fall and the season of change, new beginnings- which Jesus Christ definitely was.

Its interesting really the origins of many of these pagan holidays. A lot of them honor gods, deities, or even heroes- which gives truth to a lot of those stories of the old world, and in all cultures. The bible describes the Nephilim who are offspring of angels who mated with females (no such thing as female angel, they are only male.)- as "men of fame".

Nephilim, like fallen angels loved being worshiped by men, felt men should worship and honor them- instead of god himself. They are honored or worshiped in all of these pagan holidays, even in sports- which is why the early Israelites did not involve themselves in sports like the Olympic games and such, because you had to honor the gods and all.


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