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  #1  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:06 PM
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dchristie dchristie is offline
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United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rights

You can't help but have some begrudging admiration for raw, brazen chutzpah and hypocrisy this shameless and unrepentant.

From whom?

We're talking about the World's Foremost bastion of Democracy. What else?

America, the vaunted champion of human rights that maintains a fleet of remote control robotic flying assassins, roaming the planet dispensing murder and mayhem while acting as automated executioners in a way not dissimilar from a vending machine that delivers massacres and murder at the push of a button.

In the meantime, making the rounds of all the top talk shows this week is a guy named Jose Rodriguez.

Jose is the 21st Century answer to Antonio de Torquemada.

Speaking in an eerily apropos Hispanic accent, Jose's missionary cause is to enlighten those who may be led astray by liberal bleeding heart heretics who have turned soft, who have strayed from the path to Guantanamo.

While spreading the true religion professed by himself and the other Priests of Pain at the CIA his sacraments are waterboards, thumbscrews, pliers, branding irons and only God knows what.

Only in America.

Meanwhile, back in China where those evil commies are up to their old tricks.. They're getting their latest finger wagging lecture on human rights from Uncle Slam... the nation with the most prisoners of any country on Earth.

It's a crazy world.

.


Advocate For Blind Chinese Lawyer Says US Asylum Deal Expected Ahead Of Clinton’s China Visit


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...kqT_story.html

BEIJING — U.S. and Chinese officials are ironing out a deal to secure American asylum for a blind Chinese legal activist who fled house arrest, with an agreement likely before Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arrives this week, a U.S. rights campaigner said Monday.

Bob Fu of the Texas-based rights group ChinaAid said that China and the U.S. want to reach agreement on the fate of Chen Guangcheng before the annual high-level talks with Clinton and other U.S. officials begin in Beijing on Thursday.
.

Jose Rodriguez’s Tortured Logic

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/2012...ortured-logic/

Get the real facts on torture at RealBookonTorture.org
In his new book Hard Measures, former Director of the CIA’s National Clandestine Service Jose Rodriguez claims to set the record straight about the CIA’s use of so-called “enhanced interrogation techniques” (EITs), many of which, including waterboarding are considered torture and are illegal under U.S. and international law
.

Rodriguez insists that these methods were used to get information out of some of the world’s most notorious terrorists, like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM), the mastermind of 9/11, whose arraignment at Guantanamo is scheduled for this Saturday.

But these assertions just don’t pass muster. One reason might be Rodriguez himself. As professional interrogator Mark Fallon points out, “Like other torture advocates, Rodriguez wasn’t a trained interrogator and lacked meaningful experience with Al Qaeda.”

Rodriguez’s claims that torture worked hinge on a flimsy premise: that KSM, Abu Zubaydah, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, and the other so-called high-value detainees who were waterboarded and subjected to other forms of enhanced interrogation needed to be made “complicit” before their interrogations could proceed. According to Rodriguez, these detainees were not cooperative and resisted CIA interrogation when they arrived. As this story goes, after the CIA subjected them to EITs, the detainees became cooperative and started answering questions.

Indeed, the question in Hard Measures is never whether valuable intelligence was gleaned during enhanced interrogation, but whether or not these techniques worked in getting the detainees past the breaking point, after which non-coercive interrogation methods would work.

The unspoken implication here is that lawful interrogation methods work. But they will only work on the super bad guys if they are roughed up first. And once they’re roughed up enough, they’re just an open book.

Except that’s not quite true, either. Rodriguez mentions numerous times that even after rendering the high-value detainees “complicit” through EITs, the CIA still didn’t get all the answers they wanted.

“But wait,” you, a thinking person, might say, “I thought that was the point of waterboarding them. If they aren’t giving you answers, you use EITs, and then they give you all the answers because you made them complicit. If they aren’t giving up everything, why don’t you just enhanced interrogate them some more, until they become super-duper complicit?”

And there’s the rub. According to its advocates, enhanced interrogation works when traditional interrogation won’t, but only so much. In real life, professional interrogators use non-coercive interrogation methods with high-value detainees and get the reliable, actionable information they’re after, without torturing or abusing anyone. And in real life, EITs and torture get you false information. The false link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, a major motivation for the war in Iraq, came largely from interrogations that involved torture.

Professional interrogators who have actually interrogated high-value detainees (unlike Rodriguez) say that threats and pain can actually render those detainees more resistant and make an interrogation more likely to fail.

Read this statement by professional interrogators disputing Rodriguez’s claims here, and join Human Rights First in calling on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to release its report on CIA interrogation and detention practices here.
.




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Last edited by dchristie : 05-02-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:49 PM
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mumbles mumbles is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

hey, dimbo - we don't have anybody in prison for being a "dissident". we don't have re-education work camps, yet. the gulags weren't here.

people in usa are in prison because they committed a felony. they are not tortured.

now, north korea or china? dissidents get long prosons sentences and torture.


Quote:
On March 28, 2007, actress Mia Farrow, a good-will ambassador for the United Nations Children's Fund, drew the world's attention to the Beijing Olympics when she and her son Ronan wrote an op-ed article for the Wall Street Journal [1]. In the article, Farrow launched a campaign to label the 2008 Olympics the "Genocide Olympics." Her forthright candor gave voice to the world's awakening shock at Communist China's ever-burgeoning atrocities, its total disregard for human values and its severe human rights violations.

Not only is China bankrolling Darfur's Genocide [2]; for more than eight years it has sought to eliminate Falun Gong, which in 1999 had an estimated 70 million practitioners in China; it has likewise abused democracy activists, lawyers, human rights defenders, religious leaders, journalists, trade unionists, Tibetan Buddhists, Uighurs, ''unofficial'' church members, and political dissidents.

http://www.falunhr.org/index.php?opt...1655&Itemid=83

Quote:
How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.
http://bible.cc/luke/6-42.htm




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  #3  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:18 AM
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dchristie dchristie is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
hey, dimbo - we don't have anybody in prison for being a "dissident". we don't have re-education work camps, yet. the gulags weren't here.

people in usa are in prison because they committed a felony. they are not tortured.

now, north korea or china? dissidents get long prosons sentences and torture.





http://www.falunhr.org/index.php?opt...1655&Itemid=83



http://bible.cc/luke/6-42.htm
Typical right-wing asshole view of the world from your position of head deeply inserted up your ass.

What felony was Jose Padilla convicted of while he was being tortured for 2 years?

What felony convictions did the Guantanamo and renditioned CIA detainees have on their records?

What felonies did the kids have who were summarily blown to bits when their family's wedding party was attacked by US Predator Drones?

Being convicted of sedition is a felony in China.

Doesn't that help - since they're "felonies"?

How about the kid who was detained for 5 days by the DEA in a holding cell, forgotten about and had to drink his own urine to survive? http://bowlersdesk.com/2012/05/02/st...ne-to-survive/

You don't think the DEA is a politically motivated institution? Oh wait.. That's right. You don't think.

How about the parents who take pictures of their infant children taking a bubble bath and get prosecuted for kiddie porn? http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/par...ids_developed/

It's all political dumbles.

It's unprincipled and unconscionable politicians, usually of the right-wing asshole variety, trampling The Constitution so they can posture and pose themselves looking "tough on crime".

.



.
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"The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
-- Winston Churchill



Last edited by dchristie : 05-03-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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  #4  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:22 PM
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Logjam Logjam is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchristie View Post
[th.

It's a crazy world.

Yep, when people call what the man on the box is undergoing is also torture it is indeed a crazy world. That man is being humiliated, which is far, far from torture. Nor is the water board torture. It is uncomfortable.

The man in the old etching is being tortured to death. A very big difference. They are pulling his guts out. That is torture.

Anyone can take the standing on the box with a hood over his head without harm. It is harmless!

Having one's guts pulled out is harmfull and one has to make the distinction between the two experiences to achive some sanity in this "crazy world".


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  #5  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:55 PM
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchristie View Post
Typical right-wing asshole view of the world from your position of head deeply inserted up your ass.

What felony was Jose Padilla convicted of while he was being tortured for 2 years?

What felony convictions did the Guantanamo and renditioned CIA detainees have on their records?

What felonies did the kids have who were summarily blown to bits when their family's wedding party was attacked by US Predator Drones?

Being convicted of sedition is a felony in China.

Doesn't that help - since they're "felonies"?

How about the kid who was detained for 5 days by the DEA in a holding cell, forgotten about and had to drink his own urine to survive? http://bowlersdesk.com/2012/05/02/st...ne-to-survive/

You don't think the DEA is a politically motivated institution? Oh wait.. That's right. You don't think.

How about the parents who take pictures of their infant children taking a bubble bath and get prosecuted for kiddie porn? http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/par...ids_developed/

It's all political dumbles.

It's unprincipled and unconscionable politicians, usually of the right-wing asshole variety, trampling The Constitution so they can posture and pose themselves looking "tough on crime".

.



.
Shocking, isn't it.

Well, I guess he can look on the bright side.

He has 3 hots and a cot for the next 15 years.


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  #6  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:44 PM
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Logjam Logjam is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchristie View Post
What felony convictions did the Guantanamo and renditioned CIA detainees have on their records?


.
No need'em felony conviction to be tossed into the slammer at GETMO. Killing American soldiers is enough and that should be enough.


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  #7  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:45 PM
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Logjam Logjam is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchristie View Post
What felony was Jose Padilla convicted of while he was being tortured for 2 years?


.
Someday, if you are lucky enough to be actually tortured you will understand that Pedilla was not. It's kind of a emphany one experiences will undergoing real torture. It's a real eye opener.


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Old 05-04-2012, 08:18 PM
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mumbles mumbles is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

there's thousands of protesters in iran gone missing. anybody care? remember when they were marching and saying their election was rigged? where are they now?

why does nobody care?


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  #9  
Old 05-04-2012, 09:58 PM
Barbie Zirconia Barbie Zirconia is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbles View Post

there's thousands of protesters in iran gone missing. anybody care? remember when they were marching and saying their election was rigged? where are they now?

why does nobody care?
there's thousands of Tea Partiers in US gone missing. anybody care? remember when they were marching and saying how much they hated having a black man in the White House? where are they now?

why does nobody care?


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  #10  
Old 05-05-2012, 07:17 AM
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dchristie dchristie is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

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Originally Posted by Logjam View Post
Someday, if you are lucky enough to be actually tortured you will understand that Pedilla was not. It's kind of a emphany one experiences will undergoing real torture. It's a real eye opener.
Hahaha.. Hey Mr. "Author"... What's an "emphany"?

This clown is a real eye opener alright. What a friggin asshat..

Sadly, he's not an isolated case.

All the crackpots and psychopaths in the Monkey Right are just as full of shit and insane as he is.

.
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-- Winston Churchill


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  #11  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:21 PM
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Logjam Logjam is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

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Originally Posted by Barbie Zirconia View Post
there's thousands of Tea Partiers in US gone missing. anybody care? remember when they were marching and saying how much they hated having a black man in the White House? where are they now?

why does nobody care?
There has never been a racial element within the Tea Party.


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  #12  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:33 PM
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

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Originally Posted by Logjam View Post
There has never been a racial element within the Tea Party.


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  #13  
Old 05-05-2012, 02:38 PM
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Logjam Logjam is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

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Originally Posted by dchristie View Post
Hahaha.. Hey Mr. "Author"... What's an "emphany"?

This clown is a real eye opener alright. What a friggin asshat..

Sadly, he's not an isolated case.

All the crackpots and psychopaths in the Monkey Right are just as full of shit and insane as he is.

.
Epiphany: Sorry for the misspelling.


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Old 05-05-2012, 03:48 PM
Barbie Zirconia Barbie Zirconia is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

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Originally Posted by Logjam View Post

There has never been a racial element within the Tea Party.
LOL . . .

I just love your sarcasm.

What's next . . . are you going to tell us that Rush Limbaugh is not a fat, disgusting, hypocritical idiot?

From wikipedia:

There have been a number of allegations of racism, gay-bashing, anti-semitism and other abusive behavior by Tea Party protesters.

On March 20, 2010, before the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Bill was voted on in Washington D.C., it was reported that protesters against the bill used racial and anti-gay slurs. Several African-American lawmakers said that demonstrators shouted "the N-word" at them.


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Old 05-05-2012, 06:46 PM
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

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Originally Posted by Barbie Zirconia View Post
LOL . . .

I just love your sarcasm.

What's next . . . are you going to tell us that Rush Limbaugh is not a fat, disgusting, hypocritical idiot?

From wikipedia:

There have been a number of allegations of racism, gay-bashing, anti-semitism and other abusive behavior by Tea Party protesters.

On March 20, 2010, before the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Bill was voted on in Washington D.C., it was reported that protesters against the bill used racial and anti-gay slurs. Several African-American lawmakers said that demonstrators shouted "the N-word" at them.
Oh Barbie, never mind Logjam.



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Old 05-05-2012, 10:03 PM
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dchristie dchristie is offline
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Re: United States Of Torture Lectures China On Rig

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Originally Posted by Logjam View Post
Yep, when people call what the man on the box is undergoing is also torture it is indeed a crazy world. That man is being humiliated, which is far, far from torture. Nor is the water board torture. It is uncomfortable.

The man in the old etching is being tortured to death. A very big difference. They are pulling his guts out. That is torture.

Anyone can take the standing on the box with a hood over his head without harm. It is harmless!

Having one's guts pulled out is harmfull and one has to make the distinction between the two experiences to achive some sanity in this "crazy world".
The etching is of a murder conducted by a regime called the Spanish Inquisition - which is the dark history that your ilk would like to see us headed back to.

The man on the box is being tortured by someone who is cut from the same sociopathic and degenerate mold as you are.

Actually, what constitutes torture is reading your self serving, unprincipled excreta.

I want to use eye wash after reading it..

That such blind, callous and ignorant troglodytes as yourself are among us is disquieting.

That 20th century American society could have produced you is sad and, indeed, troubling.

.
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"The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
-- Winston Churchill




Last edited by dchristie : 05-05-2012 at 10:17 PM.
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