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  #109  
Old 04-02-2012, 06:04 PM
formeraillouisianaagent formeraillouisianaagent is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

BLAH BLAH BLAH
Did Arias wave his middle finger at you, oherc, when you met him?


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  #110  
Old 04-02-2012, 06:12 PM
wghholtrad wghholtrad is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

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Originally Posted by oherc View Post
In the spotlight, if you see a sketched person, it just means they're in the "founders club" and always in the spotlight due to their production and growth. To stay in the founders club, you have to have 10% growth each year.

Simon Aries or however you spell his name is someone I have personally met, and he is highly motivational, and is the real deal. Those companies paying 90% advance, will take the $$ back without hesitation if the policies lapse, or doesn't pay (even if insured passes away) that first year.

AIL does pay renewals for the life of the policies after working 10 hard long years, but if it were easy everyone would be doing it. I'm 3 years in, and I hate it, and like it every week, but I could not find anything that will pay what I make, nor what my renewals will pay after 10 years.

This isn't for everyone, I promise not to add to this any longer, as I was inquiring on this thread 3 years ago, (which ironically the pages doesn't exist here anymore(maybe this website is a scam)just kidding) I don't really care but there's no reason why my first posts would be deleted, as I asked the ?s like you guys are asking. I'm a manager/recruiter/agency builder, however you want to call it, but I do know I have made a lot of people that worked and works for me a lot of $$

Good luck in whatever you do, every job is a hustle and grind, unless you work for a salary or hourly. How we recruit, is different, I would have never come into this interview if I knew it was "selling insurance" because I didn't understand it, but after listening for an hour to what we do, I gave it an honest attempt. We only call people in to interview and explain, not to hire. We don't hire everyone who comes in, and everyone who comes in doesn't want to work here. It goes both ways.

Good luck again, and I'm done for the rest of the year, I'll chuckle next year if this post is deleted too. I'm not even trying to hire you, so why would I say good things about anything if I didn't genuinely think it was good.
Obviously, you cannot analyze your Progress and Persistency Report or your Ledger Statement. You owe AIL money, if you left today you would probably never receive a renewal but you would receive a 1099 and pay tax on no cash flow. You should also know that the average policy length with AIL is 16 years so if your leave after 10 years your renewals will decrease annually to a very small amount after 10 years.

It is also evident that you have no knowledge of other carrier contracts. There are 2 general categories on renewals, the largest pays renewals for 10 years, the other pays lifetime policy renewals. Neither category requires "vesting". So other carriers pay significantly higher first year commissions, 70% to 105% for agents, and renewals guaranteed for either 10 years or the life of the policy. If an insured dies in any year, the policy ends immediately with no further commissions or renewals paid, at all carriers including AIL.

Finally, AIL has the worst persistency in the industry. Most of the carriers I deal with expect 75% to 90% persistency after 4 years, AIL has about 63% persistency after 4 years based on placed policies. So when you combine the terrible contract with the terrible persistence quality, and add the 98% annual agent turnover, AIL is exposed as not "opportunity unlimited" but quite the opposite.

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  #111  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:55 AM
oherc oherc is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

I do believe the 107 and 110 are accurate. I do believe that short term bonuses are cheaper than long term renewals. Furthermore, if you are a manager and you "give" new agents business, you just gave yourself a decrease in renewals from 6-8% to 1-3% as well. So it's a double edged sword.

So what would one recommend for someone who took a 3 yr dive into this already?

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  #112  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:10 PM
wghholtrad wghholtrad is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by oherc View Post
I do believe the 107 and 110 are accurate. I do believe that short term bonuses are cheaper than long term renewals. Furthermore, if you are a manager and you "give" new agents business, you just gave yourself a decrease in renewals from 6-8% to 1-3% as well. So it's a double edged sword.

So what would one recommend for someone who took a 3 yr dive into this already?
Do you want a career in insurance? There are several exceptional carriers I can recommend, however you must understand that much of what you have learned about insurance at AIL is faulty.

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  #113  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:40 AM
wghholtrad wghholtrad is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by oherc View Post
I do believe the 107 and 110 are accurate. I do believe that short term bonuses are cheaper than long term renewals. Furthermore, if you are a manager and you "give" new agents business, you just gave yourself a decrease in renewals from 6-8% to 1-3% as well. So it's a double edged sword.

So what would one recommend for someone who took a 3 yr dive into this already?
American Income claims "Opportunity Unlimited" and expresses exaggerated income potential to recruit agents. But with with every scam a reckoning must come at some point, with AIL the real numbers must be presented quarterly in Torchmark's financial disclosures. Yesterday Torchmark released statements for the first quarter and AIL posted $39,000,000 in net sales with 5104 agents. Quick arithmetic hows the average agent had net sales for the first quarter of $7,641, that means that an average agent with a 57% contract earned $4,355 in commissions during the 13 weeks of the first quarter, $335 per week before expenses. Opportunity Unlimited!

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  #114  
Old 05-02-2012, 11:31 PM
sailorman sailorman is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

I guess I'll throw my $0.02 in here, although I don't know how relevant it'll be to the situation today.

I worked at AIL back when Bernard "Bucky" Rappaport was running the show. I was 24, with no college degree. I had just gotten a life ins. license on my own, the first of several licenses, all on my own with no promises or prospects of an opportunity to use it. Now, what do I do with the thing? Yeah, they hired me and I stayed for 2 years. I recall the sales pitch and the program they called "Hour Power" because monthly premiums were based on one hour of a union members wages per week. I don't recall ever being told I was going to make $60K, or the 1981 equivalent. I've certainly interviewed for sales jobs that made more lavish promises. What they did do was promise me a certain number of pre-arranged appointments with people that were financially qualified and interested. I met Mr. Rapport and his brother, who was also involved and if what I'm reading is true, they must be spinning in their graves. (They were quite old even then). I was supplied leads consistently, dealt with people on their level and, most importantly, got an opportunity in an industry that wouldn't take your resume today unless you had a college degree that, at the end of the day, would serve no purpose for an agent writing the kind of business that AIL writes. I didn't get rich. I stayed for two years. I netted about $22K the first year and ~$26K the second year. Not a fortune, but reasonable in 1981 dollars. I never got ripped off for commissions. I had an insured die literally before he ever paid the first premium and I still got paid for his annualized premium. They didn't offer health benefits back then, so that didn't factor into anything. I honestly don't recall if I got any residuals to speak of, but I left not owing them a dime. Or, at least they never bothered trying to collect it. I don't recall what the requirements were for being vested, or if I was. Probably not, but I have no regrets about that either.

When you talk about income levels in the insurance business, or any commissioned sales for that matter, averages don't mean squat. The average is always very low. Turnover is always very high. Life insurance is a negative product. People don't want it and they aren't forced by law to buy it. Even health insurance is 1000X easier to sell than life insurance. Life insurance is probably the hardest thing in the world to sell, even for a born salesman, let alone the kind of newbies that AIL hires. If they had a 90% turnover rate, it would neither shock or surprise me, knowing what I know about this industry. If State Farm or MetLife had the same hiring practices, their turnover would be every bit as high and probably higher because you pay good money for leads with those companies and they're often of lower quality than what AIL provides. So to call AIL a scam based on some average agent ALP or commission is fallacious. They could be a scam now. It's been 30 years since I worked there, but if they are, averages aren't the metric to use for that accusation. Look at the median sales by people who stayed a full year. That tells a far more honest story. Maybe today it still sucks. I don't know. But I do know that I'm no super salesman and I didn't do too bad. In retrospect, had I stayed with AIL, I might well have been better off in the long run.

I didn't leave because I felt they were dishonest or abusing me. Frankly I was bored with their limited product offering. I got a property and casualty license, a mutual funds license and began writing multi-line insurance and selling mutual funds, which took me off the street and into the offices of 5 different insurance and financial planning companies over the next 25 years. I still wrote insurance, independently, for other life companies and, I can tell you, with very few exceptions they aren't one bit better to their agents. They all have chargebacks. None of them pay your sales expenses. Some provide a "draw" to keep you working, but that's just a loan. Most have a more miserly commission schedule. Probably the most important thing is that with other companies you are on your own regarding leads. I remember selling mutual funds, variable annuities and life insurance for a company that literally handed me a phone book, whereupon I was expected to make a hundred some-odd cold calls to get appointments. And the prospect was to come to my office! You can imagine how many no-shows you get that way. And all for a 20% commission on term life insurance and a point or two on the investment component. But hey, at least I wasn't driving all over the place. Now, that's all great if you happen to have a lot of very wealthy people in your rolodex. That's wonderful if you have amassed a reputation as a financial wizard. But, for a 20-something, lower middle-class guy it was hell. I don't care how much you knew about insurance, it was irrelevant. It didn't matter that my score on the exam for mutual funds license was in the 99.5th percentile (they actually told you back then). You can eat, sleep and breathe prospectuses and know Morningstar better than your own name, but you will starve for 10 or 15 years before you have enough credibility to move some doctor to believe you know more than his brother-in-law, who works for the most expensive ins. co. on the planet, or his golf buddy who told him he should invest in CD's and tax free munis because it's better to make a dollar and pay no tax than to make ten dollars and pay 15%.

I can say this about AIL. If you're not an affable air-headed George Bush type; if you're not a slick, back-slappin' MBA with a toothy grin; if you don't belong to the lucky sperm club and you can't rely on Daddy's address book for your initial sales leads and instant credibility, it's as good as any opportunity you're going to get as a newly licensed agent with no experience. That's especially true in a tight job market when companies want a candidate for a receptionist job to have a Masters in Communications. The people you will be dealing with are working people. They've been, and felt, screwed over time and again by the type of people that look just like the ones who are representing most of the other big-name life insurance companies. They aren't in a position to buy million dollar policies so that you can earn a decent check on your 2% commission. They don't care if you bought your suit off the shelf and drive a 4 year old compact car. And you don't have to try to bs them into thinking that you are some type of wunderkind who is going to make them rich with your investment savvy. As a fellow union member, you don't have to come off as a Bernie Madoff. There is a level of trust and credibility that you are granted by the prospects that AIL supplies you. Fortunately, at least in my experience, AIL never did anything to cause any of my customers to question my honesty or for me to betray that trust. As a company, they were very honest with me and, more importantly, their insureds. That meant a lot to me when I worked there, and it meant even more years later, when I learned what a two-faced, greedy, back-biting snake pit the whole industry really is.


Last edited by sailorman : 05-02-2012 at 11:54 PM.
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  #115  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:13 AM
sailorman sailorman is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by wghholtrad View Post
Do you want a career in insurance? There are several exceptional carriers I can recommend, however you must understand that much of what you have learned about insurance at AIL is faulty.
Let me tell you something about what you "learn" at ANY insurance company or their agency. You learn their product(s). You learn that their product is the best and their company is the best. Most of all, you learn how to sell the product of a particular company. If you want to learn about insurance, you don't get that education from the company for whom you sell. I don't care what company it is. The fact is, with 99% of the companies out there, if you knew anything about insurance, you wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

That's why there are "captive" agents. Ins. companies prefer you don't know about insurance. The less you know about insurance, the cleaner slate they'll be working with and the less chance you'll discover that your policy is a piece of crap. Once you get to familiar with the products of other companies, it becomes exceedingly difficult to make a sale, unless you are a sociopath. The aim of any ins. co. is not to teach their agents about insurance, it is to teach them to sell their product like it's the best one in the world, and to believe it themselves. Only companies who sell strictly through independent agents are honest enough to acknowledge that no company is the best for everyone. And you don't go to them for a career. You make a career for yourself and they allow you to represent them.

You learn the laws and the regulations when you get your license. You learn how they are relevant when you start writing policies. But you only learn insurance by dealing with many different companies and different lines and policy forms.
Saying that you'll learn insurance if you get a "career" with this company or that company is like saying you'll learn about cars by getting a job as a salesman at the biggest Chevy dealer in town.

You show me someone who came right out of college, got a job with one of the "household names" writing life insurance, and stayed with that company for 30 years, writing life ins., and I'll show you someone who doesn't know crap about insurance. He'll know his company. He'll know his company's products. But he won't know insurance.

That applies to State Farm, Met, Pru, and AIL equally. You want to find someone who knows insurance? Go find an independent, multi-line agent who's been representing at least 10 different companies for years. Or find someone who's an actuary, adjuster, underwriter and investment manager all wrapped up in one.


Last edited by sailorman : 05-03-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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  #116  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:46 AM
wghholtrad wghholtrad is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorman View Post
Let me tell you something about what you "learn" at ANY insurance company or their agency. You learn their product(s). You learn that their product is the best and their company is the best. Most of all, you learn how to sell the product of a particular company. If you want to learn about insurance, you don't get that education from the company for whom you sell. I don't care what company it is. The fact is, with 99% of the companies out there, if you knew anything about insurance, you wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

That's why there are "captive" agents. Ins. companies prefer you don't know about insurance. The less you know about insurance, the cleaner slate they'll be working with and the less chance you'll discover that your policy is a piece of crap. Once you get to familiar with the products of other companies, it becomes exceedingly difficult to make a sale, unless you are a sociopath. The aim of any ins. co. is not to teach their agents about insurance, it is to teach them to sell their product like it's the best one in the world, and to believe it themselves. Only companies who sell strictly through independent agents are honest enough to acknowledge that no company is the best for everyone. And you don't go to them for a career. You make a career for yourself and they allow you to represent them.

You learn the laws and the regulations when you get your license. You learn how they are relevant when you start writing policies. But you only learn insurance by dealing with many different companies and different lines and policy forms.
Saying that you'll learn insurance if you get a "career" with this company or that company is like saying you'll learn about cars by getting a job as a salesman at the biggest Chevy dealer in town.

You show me someone who came right out of college, got a job with one of the "household names" writing life insurance, and stayed with that company for 30 years, writing life ins., and I'll show you someone who doesn't know crap about insurance. He'll know his company. He'll know his company's products. But he won't know insurance.

That applies to State Farm, Met, Pru, and AIL equally. You want to find someone who knows insurance? Go find an independent, multi-line agent who's been representing at least 10 different companies for years. Or find someone who's an actuary, adjuster, underwriter and investment manager all wrapped up in one.
Northwestern Mutual Life, New York Life, are Mass Mutual captive companies that I think do a good job in training fresh agents about insurance. Some of my agents have this background, and they are very competent. I agree that when you represent many insurance carriers that you are exposed to many philosophies and products and you develop a sharper perspective of the insurance industry. AIL does almost no training on their products, their underwriting, and the training about competing carriers is generally wrong. So AIL ends up with a bunch of novice agents, with poor product knowledge, and heads filled with falsehoods about competing carriers. These novices are constantly pressured by management and their own need to eat to make sales. That certainly is not an environment conducive to "needs based selling" and "suitability" and developing a client base.

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  #117  
Old 06-12-2012, 08:32 AM
qwerick qwerick is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by wghholtrad View Post
Northwestern Mutual Life, New York Life, are Mass Mutual captive companies that I think do a good job in training fresh agents about insurance. Some of my agents have this background, and they are very competent. I agree that when you represent many insurance carriers that you are exposed to many philosophies and products and you develop a sharper perspective of the insurance industry. AIL does almost no training on their products, their underwriting, and the training about competing carriers is generally wrong. So AIL ends up with a bunch of novice agents, with poor product knowledge, and heads filled with falsehoods about competing carriers. These novices are constantly pressured by management and their own need to eat to make sales. That certainly is not an environment conducive to "needs based selling" and "suitability" and developing a client base.
The tough part of this is that AIL works this way on purpose. This method lowers their policy acquisition costs, and is a business model that provides good profit.
AIL has no incentive to treat their agents properly. They will continue to create an environment where 95-98% of the agents quit within the first year so long as they can keep conning people into taking the job. Sad, really.

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  #118  
Old 06-16-2012, 06:56 AM
wghholtrad wghholtrad is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

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Originally Posted by qwerick View Post
The tough part of this is that AIL works this way on purpose. This method lowers their policy acquisition costs, and is a business model that provides good profit.
AIL has no incentive to treat their agents properly. They will continue to create an environment where 95-98% of the agents quit within the first year so long as they can keep conning people into taking the job. Sad, really.
Maybe we give AIL executives too much credit for this model. The business model you describe is a sophisticated financial shell game designed to provide lower agent commissions and renewals than their industry competitors. AIL corporate executives are known for their illegal chemical binges, their sexual pursuits of subordinates, and their ability to deny any thought not provided them by their immediate superior. This business model was probably designed by someone at Torchmark and given to the AIL executives to slavishly implement. Meanwhile, the SGAs are extorted for thousands of dollars annually, hundreds from the managers, and smaller amounts from the agents so that Roger Smith can play big shot with political contributions.


Last edited by wghholtrad : 06-16-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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  #119  
Old 07-25-2012, 01:51 AM
zepphead zepphead is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by formeraillouisianaagent View Post
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Did Arias wave his middle finger at you, oherc, when you met him?
I would imagine you are referring to this pic....

http://arias-agencies.pissedconsumer...203170005.html


Here is my opinion on this now infamous "middle finger" pic....

I would advise the original blog poster and those who are offended by this to put down their egos for a moment. Who are you to think that those fingers are for you? Why are you that important? And to say they are intended for clients or prospective/future co-workers is ridiculous. Fact is, you can't take a pic out of context and assume its purpose or intent when you have no idea why that pic was taken or who it was intended for.

Here is who I would imagine those fingers are for:

All the people that those guys in the pic came across in their earlier lives/careers that told them they couldn't do it, that they would never be successful, that they would never be good enough. It's for their past coaches who cut them from the team because they would never have what it takes. It's for their ex-friends and ex-girlfriends, old co-workers, perhaps even family members who laughed at them when they shared that they wanted to try out one of the hardest, most challenging and cut-throat industries on the planet. It's for their former bosses who trashed and belittled them when they put in their notice because they actually wanted to take a chance/risk at making something of themselves.

That pic should be a lesson in motivation to every single person who sees it.

Do you want to motivate me? Tell me I can't do something. Please. Do it. You better believe I'm gonna work exponentially harder just to prove you wrong.

And when I reach that goal, you better be damned sure that finger's gonna be for you.


Last edited by zepphead : 07-25-2012 at 02:27 AM. Reason: better link
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  #120  
Old 07-25-2012, 01:51 PM
wghholtrad wghholtrad is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by zepphead View Post
I would imagine you are referring to this pic....

http://arias-agencies.pissedconsumer...203170005.html


Here is my opinion on this now infamous "middle finger" pic....

I would advise the original blog poster and those who are offended by this to put down their egos for a moment. Who are you to think that those fingers are for you? Why are you that important? And to say they are intended for clients or prospective/future co-workers is ridiculous. Fact is, you can't take a pic out of context and assume its purpose or intent when you have no idea why that pic was taken or who it was intended for.

Here is who I would imagine those fingers are for:

All the people that those guys in the pic came across in their earlier lives/careers that told them they couldn't do it, that they would never be successful, that they would never be good enough. It's for their past coaches who cut them from the team because they would never have what it takes. It's for their ex-friends and ex-girlfriends, old co-workers, perhaps even family members who laughed at them when they shared that they wanted to try out one of the hardest, most challenging and cut-throat industries on the planet. It's for their former bosses who trashed and belittled them when they put in their notice because they actually wanted to take a chance/risk at making something of themselves.

That pic should be a lesson in motivation to every single person who sees it.

Do you want to motivate me? Tell me I can't do something. Please. Do it. You better believe I'm gonna work exponentially harder just to prove you wrong.

And when I reach that goal, you better be damned sure that finger's gonna be for you.
You will make a shining example of AIL leadership. For you it is not important to do the right thing, to achieve, or to help others, success to you is getting the opportunity to say screw you to anyone that you feel slighted you. Yes, you should be a top executive in no time with that moral compass.

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  #121  
Old 07-25-2012, 04:26 PM
zepphead zepphead is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by wghholtrad View Post
You will make a shining example of AIL leadership. For you it is not important to do the right thing, to achieve, or to help others, success to you is getting the opportunity to say screw you to anyone that you feel slighted you. Yes, you should be a top executive in no time with that moral compass.
Why would you assume that I do now/have before/or ever will have anything to do with AIL personally? Or the insurance industry for that matter? And why would you assume to know me and the things I consider moral?

I posted a comment in regard to an amazingly entertaining thread on the internet.....something called an OPINION. It was an attempt to make people think outside the box, something kinda rare these days.

I expected a reply from you though, wghholtrad. You have replied to every person that has even remotely defended AIL in any way, shape, or form. You are on top of this for sure; you are bashing that company like the world is going to end and it's your full-time job to do so.

I'm sure you have noticed that there are negative "scam-like" threads on here in regard to many insurance companies, and if you ask me, there probably should be about most or even all of them. From what I know about it, it is not too friendly an industry in many different ways, but I've come across some very good people involved in it as well, some of my family members included. But I think you can likely say this in regard to any industry in this country. Good and bad, positive and negative. We seek perfection, but rarely, if ever, achieve it.

I think you should use that pic to motivate yourself to move on and maybe find a new hobby.....unless this website is paying you to cover this "story" so exclusively. If that's the case, then go get 'em tiger!

Oh by the way, you may have heard of Michael Jordan before. In a speech he made for an accolade he received (I think it was his acceptance speech into the NBA Hall of Fame, actually) he took the time to thank his family, coaches, etc, of course, but he actually focused his efforts on thanking those that told him he'd never make it, wasn't good enough, etc. Because they MOTIVATED him to do better.

Now obviously, this Simon Arias chap and his buddies chose to convey that message in a much different manner, and I agree that there would definitely be better ways to go about doing so. I simply wanted to make a point that maybe that picture isn't meant to convey exactly what people are gathering from it out of context. And it surely should not be made to reflect all of AIL's employees/agents. But it is found in the context of this harshly negative thread about that company, so perhaps we should expect there to not be much "thinking outside the box" about the whole thing.

Anyway, in regard to the pic, I feel that maybe I am just able to take something negative (like the middle finger) and turn it into something positive (like a motivational message to others). If it hurts your feelings or makes you angry, you are taking things waaaay too seriously.

If someone tells me something negative (like I can't do it), I turn it into something positive (such as extra motivation to achieve it). I find that approach very hard to argue against. Now, how I choose to convey that message is up to me entirely, because it is for my motivation, not theirs. After all, they are trying to DE-motivate me. Just because I was motivated to do better by that pic, does not in any way mean I personally would give others the finger in order to demonstrate that point....you don't know me, so don't pretend to.

When I concluded my previous post with- "And when I reach that goal, you better be damned sure that finger's gonna be for you." -it was an attempt to convey those words coming from Simon Arias and his counterparts themselves, from their point-of-view, as if they were saying it directly to us through the pic. Because, if you ask me, my opinion is that is exactly what they are saying. It seems I didn't make that clear so I apologize.

Thank you, and peace and love, my friend.

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  #122  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:45 PM
wghholtrad wghholtrad is offline
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Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

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Originally Posted by zepphead View Post
Why would you assume that I do now/have before/or ever will have anything to do with AIL personally? Or the insurance industry for that matter? And why would you assume to know me and the things I consider moral?

I posted a comment in regard to an amazingly entertaining thread on the internet.....something called an OPINION. It was an attempt to make people think outside the box, something kinda rare these days.

I expected a reply from you though, wghholtrad. You have replied to every person that has even remotely defended AIL in any way, shape, or form. You are on top of this for sure; you are bashing that company like the world is going to end and it's your full-time job to do so.

I'm sure you have noticed that there are negative "scam-like" threads on here in regard to many insurance companies, and if you ask me, there probably should be about most or even all of them. From what I know about it, it is not too friendly an industry in many different ways, but I've come across some very good people involved in it as well, some of my family members included. But I think you can likely say this in regard to any industry in this country. Good and bad, positive and negative. We seek perfection, but rarely, if ever, achieve it.

I think you should use that pic to motivate yourself to move on and maybe find a new hobby.....unless this website is paying you to cover this "story" so exclusively. If that's the case, then go get 'em tiger!

Oh by the way, you may have heard of Michael Jordan before. In a speech he made for an accolade he received (I think it was his acceptance speech into the NBA Hall of Fame, actually) he took the time to thank his family, coaches, etc, of course, but he actually focused his efforts on thanking those that told him he'd never make it, wasn't good enough, etc. Because they MOTIVATED him to do better.

Now obviously, this Simon Arias chap and his buddies chose to convey that message in a much different manner, and I agree that there would definitely be better ways to go about doing so. I simply wanted to make a point that maybe that picture isn't meant to convey exactly what people are gathering from it out of context. And it surely should not be made to reflect all of AIL's employees/agents. But it is found in the context of this harshly negative thread about that company, so perhaps we should expect there to not be much "thinking outside the box" about the whole thing.

Anyway, in regard to the pic, I feel that maybe I am just able to take something negative (like the middle finger) and turn it into something positive (like a motivational message to others). If it hurts your feelings or makes you angry, you are taking things waaaay too seriously.

If someone tells me something negative (like I can't do it), I turn it into something positive (such as extra motivation to achieve it). I find that approach very hard to argue against. Now, how I choose to convey that message is up to me entirely, because it is for my motivation, not theirs. After all, they are trying to DE-motivate me. Just because I was motivated to do better by that pic, does not in any way mean I personally would give others the finger in order to demonstrate that point....you don't know me, so don't pretend to.

When I concluded my previous post with- "And when I reach that goal, you better be damned sure that finger's gonna be for you." -it was an attempt to convey those words coming from Simon Arias and his counterparts themselves, from their point-of-view, as if they were saying it directly to us through the pic. Because, if you ask me, my opinion is that is exactly what they are saying. It seems I didn't make that clear so I apologize.

Thank you, and peace and love, my friend.
So if I understand you, you have no specific knowledge or experience with AIL, you have no specific knowledge or experience with Simon Arias and you have no significant industry knowledge. Your comments amount to Rorschach test results on a picture you saw posted here.

Thanks for your input.



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  #123  
Old 07-27-2012, 06:16 PM
zepphead zepphead is offline
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Posts: 7
Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by wghholtrad View Post
So if I understand you, you have no specific knowledge or experience with AIL, you have no specific knowledge or experience with Simon Arias and you have no significant industry knowledge. Your comments amount to Rorschach test results on a picture you saw posted here.

Thanks for your input.
You are quite welcome.

In regard to AIL, I have very limited knowledge, aside from what I am able to gather from these posts, of which I read nearly all (quite entertaining). I'm sure some may be accurate while others are not nearly.

I have never met Simon Arias, I only know about him what I have read in these posts; again, I'm sure we have both accurate and inaccurate statements made in his regard.

In regard to the insurance industry, I know what I have learned through the course of my life insuring my assets with different companies at different times. And I'm sure not everything I think is true actually is!

My comments amount to exactly whatever the reader takes from them after THINKING about them for a moment, something else that will no doubt vary greatly. But, after all, making others THINK was my intent in the first place! So glad we are finally on the same page. And Rorschach is a great way to describe it, if you like, because that would imply that most readers might actually use some psychological brain power with which to THINK!

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  #124  
Old 07-28-2012, 05:54 PM
wghholtrad wghholtrad is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 25
Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by zepphead View Post
You are quite welcome.

In regard to AIL, I have very limited knowledge, aside from what I am able to gather from these posts, of which I read nearly all (quite entertaining). I'm sure some may be accurate while others are not nearly.

I have never met Simon Arias, I only know about him what I have read in these posts; again, I'm sure we have both accurate and inaccurate statements made in his regard.

In regard to the insurance industry, I know what I have learned through the course of my life insuring my assets with different companies at different times. And I'm sure not everything I think is true actually is!

My comments amount to exactly whatever the reader takes from them after THINKING about them for a moment, something else that will no doubt vary greatly. But, after all, making others THINK was my intent in the first place! So glad we are finally on the same page. And Rorschach is a great way to describe it, if you like, because that would imply that most readers might actually use some psychological brain power with which to THINK!
Well, when a reader considers these posts I think the bona fides of the poster are important elements to weigh. I was contracted with AIL for over 6 years, went to 5 conventions, and earned dozens of bonuses and awards. I left because I was lied to on a constantly by AIL corporate executives. During my contracted period I saw the revision of contracts and attitudes to restructure the organization for constant turnover. The reason for this is that the union contract that is touted by AIL, actually the worst in the industry, allows for a unique vesting of renewals which refunds non-vested renewals to AIL. Thus AIL transitioned to a recruiting scam where false income and renewal claims, together with inadequate training lead to early disillusionment of new recruits, 95% terminate within 6 months 98% within 1 year. All of these renewals are not vested and revert to AIL. The terrible contract that I referred to also requires union membership and monthly dues (about $20). As AIL claims over 5000 currently active agents, that means dues amount to over $100,000 monthly but agents never meet a union representative and no union business is ever discussed with them. In addition the the awful contract has a voluntary contributions authorization to allow further contributions to the union political fund. Managers are required to maintain union membership by denied any representation, in the case that someone uncovered a union representative. There are several questions raised in all of this, agents are independent contractors by the contract but the OPEIU represents employees, SGAs and managers are not represented by the union but are bullied to contribute substantial amounts to the union political action fund, Roger Smith is AIL CEO but raises and distributes union political action funds.

AIL benefits from turnover, oversees a union which collects dues and political contributions from agents that never see a union representative, and managers which are not entitled to representation. SCAM.

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  #125  
Old 07-30-2012, 11:38 AM
qwerick qwerick is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 27
Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by zepphead View Post
You are quite welcome.

In regard to AIL, I have very limited knowledge, aside from what I am able to gather from these posts, of which I read nearly all (quite entertaining). I'm sure some may be accurate while others are not nearly.

I have never met Simon Arias, I only know about him what I have read in these posts; again, I'm sure we have both accurate and inaccurate statements made in his regard.

In regard to the insurance industry, I know what I have learned through the course of my life insuring my assets with different companies at different times. And I'm sure not everything I think is true actually is!

My comments amount to exactly whatever the reader takes from them after THINKING about them for a moment, something else that will no doubt vary greatly. But, after all, making others THINK was my intent in the first place! So glad we are finally on the same page. And Rorschach is a great way to describe it, if you like, because that would imply that most readers might actually use some psychological brain power with which to THINK!
Just wondering how you came to be on the "american income" thread? It seems that 99% of respondents are either past employees with a beef or current ones defending the company. Even more curious is that someone, with no affiliation or knowledge of the Company, would take the time to engage in multiple posts defending Simon's picture.
You must have a lot of spare time on your hands!

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  #126  
Old 08-06-2012, 12:33 AM
zepphead zepphead is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
Re: American Income Life is Not a Scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerick View Post
Just wondering how you came to be on the "american income" thread? It seems that 99% of respondents are either past employees with a beef or current ones defending the company. Even more curious is that someone, with no affiliation or knowledge of the Company, would take the time to engage in multiple posts defending Simon's picture.
You must have a lot of spare time on your hands!
Yikes, you folks can be some real aggressive hound dogs on here! I stopped back to follow up with wghholtrad about something (which I'm 100% sure you will read) and saw your reply. Maybe I'm wrong but I think wghholtrad and I parted as friends last week....perhaps you and I can do the same?

Honestly, I really just surfed here. Count me in the 1%, I guess! I actually tried to find my pathway in my history, but it's not there anymore. Anyway, if I remember correctly, I googled something that eventually lead me to that pic, which lead me to this thread. It definitely started with that pic, not AIL in any way, shape or form.

I just wanted to deliver the possibility of a fresh look in regard to that pic, I really had no other intentions. But I have always been somewhat of an aggressive personality and I definitely enjoy sticking-up for myself (don't we all? we all should...) so when wghholtrad "bit back" initially, I found myself getting a bit more involved in all this than originally intended....and now even more so, especially since I'd still like to contact wghholtrad on behalf of a friend!

What can I say, sometimes I like to indulge in mindless dribble....and I'm a night owl who has never needed too much sleep, so I have my free time late nights (it's after 1:30 am now), thank you very much!

Just an FYI, I am actually in the Recruiting/Staffing industry. BUT my focus is and always has been Engineering, Manufacturing, Accounting/Finance, and Info Tech. NEVER insurance related searches. I do know a bit about insurance, I suppose mainly due to the fact that I'm not a total moron, have some family/friends in the biz, and I'm smart enough to insure my own life and my possessions....I hope we all are at least that smart!

So believe me or don't, that's all up to you in the end anyway. Now, I digress, and may we part as friends, qwerick?

I'll do my part to reach that end.....peace and love, my friend!


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