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  #19  
Old 04-28-2012, 05:02 AM
thistle thistle is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
I know you would like to be handed free stuff, paid for by other people. But here's a clue...it's not really free.
In UK noone has ever claimed it is free. We pay for it, just like you do. But we pay waaaay less, and we all pay, through National Insurance and some comes out of general taxation.

The point about what you call a socialised system is that it should be free at the point of need. You shouldnt have to worry about paying for healthcare, because it puts people off doing something about warning signs, putting off their treatments, etc. Which cost more money, and thats not even including the mental strain that worry about finance can cause to someone who is also fighting a medical problem.

Of course healthcare isnt free. Anywhere. That doesnt mean that your particular system of funding must be the only one, and others are somehow an attack on your freedoms or "the american way".


edit: and for clarity, im not saying UK or Scotland are the ideal system either. There are better systems, many here are as ideologically opposed to changing our system as you are ideologically opposed to "socialised" healthcare, and both are extreme positions. There are sensible middle grounds.



Last edited by thistle : 04-28-2012 at 05:05 AM.
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  #20  
Old 04-28-2012, 05:52 AM
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
I know you would like to be handed free stuff, paid for by other people. But here's a clue...it's not really free.
What a bullshit comment.

Fact is, it's not free BUT, it's would be cheaper than it currently is AND everyone would be covered. Another fact is, I pay for everyone's uncovered coverage now through higher insurance and medical prices.

Why is it OK we can be taxed and those taxes can be used to bomb and kill innocent people in foreign countries, can be used provide tax breaks for already profitable companies BUT WE CAN'T USE OUR OWN MONEY TO FUND THE HEALTHCARE OF OUR CITIZENS???
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  #21  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:19 PM
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lisan23 lisan23 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
I suspect problems with wait times has more to do with where a person lives not having enough doctors in the area, which would not change with socialized medicine.
I agree with this, however as I said in my original post I've seen people use the wait times as an excuse as to why they don't support socialism. I think it's an invalid excuse.

Quote:
I have never, ever had any problem getting into a docotor for anything at all. For myself, my wife or my children.
Good for you. I have lived in low population areas for most of my adult life and have ALWAYS struggled to get either myself or my daughter to be seen.

Quote:
For general checkup type stuff we can easily get an appointment for later the same week and any sort of emergency we have gotten in every time with no problems, ever. We pay a $20 copay and get the treatment we need.
You are extremely fortunate in this aspect. My husband switched jobs last year and the insurance improved vastly. That being said, we still have a $3,000 deductible and they won't cover ANYTHING until that amount is paid. So as you can imagine, most years we end up paying for all of our care out of pocket. I have found that this kind of plan is far more prevalent then those that allow you to pay a copay and count the copay towards the deductible.

Quote:
Seeing a specialist for something usually has a bit of a wait but that's true of any system and would only be worse if the government was in charge of it. The gov doesn't do ANYTHING efficiently. What would make healthcare any different?
Can you actually prove that wait times for specialists would be worse if the government was in charge of it? Additionally, doesn't that kind of contradict the first statement you made in which you stated it has more to do with an area and the number of doctors serving the area than the type of insurance that is used (private vs. a single payer system)?

I think that a single payer system could be run successfully in the US IF the people here would only be willing to give it a chance.



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  #22  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:21 PM
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lisan23 lisan23 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
I know you would like to be handed free stuff, paid for by other people. But here's a clue...it's not really free.
LMAO

What? I support universal health care and I don't need it at all. We have insurance and we can afford to pay our medical bills. I have this thing called empathy though where I understand that not everyone is as fortunate as I am and that they should be able to access health care just as much as I do. Having money shouldn't dictate whether or not someone is able to get basic and preventative care in this country.

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  #23  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:25 PM
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lisan23 lisan23 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
The wait times is little more than an excuse.

They can't argue the cost.
They can't argue the health stats.
They can't argue how relaxed and worry free the citizens are.

So they argue wait times.....

Why you ask...... Because... That's what the citizens argue about. It's the one biggest and recurring complaint. It's hard to quantify, and varies drastically from place to place. It's easy to compare cost and stats.

However, as you noted. wait times are no different in the US. It's just a lot harder to compare things and someone can easily cherry pick stats when you have thousands of cities to do it between.


for instance check out this article:
http://sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpres...-canada-vs-us/

Can you spot the cherry picking and false use of data? (luckily commentators on the article pointed out the same thing. ) However, I wonder how many people fell for it. Even with commentators pointing it out there are still people defending the BS.


You might also find this article interesting.
http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/12/1...-us-vs-canada/
It references many countries stats and tries to actually compare things correctly.
I now live near the Canadian border, some of the local business's even fly Canadian flags. That's another thing that drives me nuts, I KNOW I have seen people on here state that they know someone who lives near the Canadian border who says that Canadians come here for health care. I see Canadians come here to go to WalMart, I also see Canadians come here to work... but I have yet to meet one that comes here for health care. In fact, my husband best friend up here is Canadian and his wife was pregnant. She actually went back to Canada to have the baby rather than do it here as our local hospital is notorious for accidentally switching babies. (They own a home here and in Canada.)

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  #24  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:28 PM
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lisan23 lisan23 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglepete View Post
Hi lisan23,

I am in London visiting my sister and her family, and of course, every one I know wanted me to find out what she thinks about the (FREE) healthcare in the UK. I must say that I suspect many of my friends had a personal agenda in their asking...Well, the verdict is in, and I think some will be disappointed...She loves it, sure there are issues and problems, but it's FREE, that is the bottom line, that actually makes up for the negatives (wait time, no PCP...no, not that, a doctor LOL, and any other complaints people that don't really know anything might have) it's all worth it...

BTW, Denver fan now?
I honestly wouldn't mind paying more in taxes if it meant we could have a universal health care system. We currently pay around 15% of our income in federal income taxes alone. We live WAY below our means (by choice) and could afford to pay more.

And no, not a Denver fan. I love Manning, but not enough to root for Denver. I'm reverting back to the team I loved growing up - go 49'ers!

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  #25  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:31 PM
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lisan23 lisan23 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by EvilZoe View Post
Of course, we currently have wait times up to 12 hours or so in some ERs due to people not having insurance. This doesn't even begin to go into the cost of ER medicine compared to preventive medicine. And since many regular HMOs currently have wait times of over an hour WITH insurance...

But if people are going to have to WAIT for two whole hours with universal health care, well then.....
My husband went into the instant care clinic (according to the ER the wait time was better over there). He walked in and there was only 1 other person in the waiting room. The entire visit took him 3 hours, as he walked out he walked past the ER and still saw many of the same people waiting to go back. That's really become the "norm" for this area.

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  #26  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:34 PM
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lisan23 lisan23 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by kazza View Post
As far back as I can remember, I've never had to wait to see a GP. On the occasions that I have wanted to see one on the same day, every single time I have been able to. I have lived in the suburbs, and I have lived in the city, and it has been the same everywhere (in fairness, it's probably not quite as easy in rural Australia).

I have had to go to an ER multiple times, for myself and for others, and have never waited more than 4 hours - even a few years ago on New Years Eve when they were swamped with drunken injuries, it took only a few hours for my gf to get an X-ray of her foot.

All of this on a socialised healthcare system. I pay about $15 for a doctor's visit, and usually nothing for a visit to the hospital.
I'm in the rural US so I know that this increases the wait time. However, when we were in Wyoming it was never this bad. I would usually wait a couple weeks to get an appointment, but the wait for my daughter to get in is close to 2 months. (Not to mention I waited for over 30 minutes on hold just to get through to the appointment desk.)

My family and friends that live in larger cities here in the US don't have to wait as long. However, my mom is in the Salt Lake City area and has had to have a couple of surgeries on her knee. Getting into the specialist that her insurance covers has always been a nightmare, her appointments are at least a month out (if not longer). The ER's are up and down there, sometimes the wait is short, sometimes you'll wait awhile.

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  #27  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:27 PM
willyjoe willyjoe is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
I know you would like to be handed free stuff, paid for by other people.
Don't be silly, everyone knows that's not for the common folk. Only the plutocracy gets that taken from the masses.
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  #28  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:04 PM
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Spector567 Spector567 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by lisan23 View Post
I'm in the rural US so I know that this increases the wait time. However, when we were in Wyoming it was never this bad. I would usually wait a couple weeks to get an appointment, but the wait for my daughter to get in is close to 2 months. (Not to mention I waited for over 30 minutes on hold just to get through to the appointment desk.)

My family and friends that live in larger cities here in the US don't have to wait as long. However, my mom is in the Salt Lake City area and has had to have a couple of surgeries on her knee. Getting into the specialist that her insurance covers has always been a nightmare, her appointments are at least a month out (if not longer). The ER's are up and down there, sometimes the wait is short, sometimes you'll wait awhile.
Please tell me this was some super duper special appointment.

The longest it's ever taken me to see my GP was a couple of days..... Because they were off. Most times I come in the next day.

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  #29  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:09 PM
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
Please tell me this was some super duper special appointment.

The longest it's ever taken me to see my GP was a couple of days..... Because they were off. Most times I come in the next day.
There are certain types of doctors and certain health plans where it's difficult to get an appointment where I live, too, and I'm in a metropolitan area.
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  #30  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:53 PM
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kazza kazza is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by EvilZoe View Post
There are certain types of doctors and certain health plans where it's difficult to get an appointment where I live, too, and I'm in a metropolitan area.
Wait.... What do you mean certain health plans? Do you have to ask your insurer whether or not you can see a doctor first? Does your doctor ask what kind of health-care plan you have before agreeing to see you?

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  #31  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:58 PM
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EvilZoe EvilZoe is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by kazza View Post
Wait.... What do you mean certain health plans? Do you have to ask your insurer whether or not you can see a doctor first? Does your doctor ask what kind of health-care plan you have before agreeing to see you?
Some doctors only accept certain health plans. You have to go to those who have a contract with your insurance provider.
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  #32  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:27 PM
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lisan23 lisan23 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
Please tell me this was some super duper special appointment.

The longest it's ever taken me to see my GP was a couple of days..... Because they were off. Most times I come in the next day.
Nope, this is a general practice. It's a two month wait to get her in for her annual well child checkup. We also cannot see a doctor without a referral, she will be seen by an LPN.

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  #33  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:42 PM
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by EvilZoe View Post
Some doctors only accept certain health plans. You have to go to those who have a contract with your insurance provider.
Wow. I find that amazing. I had no idea. Is this common across the US?

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  #34  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:46 PM
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lisan23 lisan23 is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by kazza View Post
Wow. I find that amazing. I had no idea. Is this common across the US?
Yes, this is how private insurance works. You can see a doctor outside your insurance provider's network however they may not cover any of the costs and anything you pay out of pocket will not be applicable to your deductible.

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  #35  
Old 05-02-2012, 12:06 PM
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by lisan23 View Post
Yes, this is how private insurance works. You can see a doctor outside your insurance provider's network however they may not cover any of the costs and anything you pay out of pocket will not be applicable to your deductible.
All I can say is wow.

I've never experience anything like this in my life. I've never had trouble seeing my GP and she is a full fledged doctor. My biggest obsticle is that she's off 2-3 days a week for other duties or vacation. (I think she works a 4 day week and rotates at another clinic), If I can't wait I just go see one of the other ones at the practice.

and if I don't have a GP I go to the walk in clinic.

All of it covered, no questions about money. You just walk in an show your healthcard.


That being said there are longer waits for surgeons and specialist. However, I rarely need those.

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  #36  
Old 05-02-2012, 02:17 PM
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EvilZoe EvilZoe is offline
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Re: Socialized medicine means longer wait times?

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Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
All I can say is wow.

I've never experience anything like this in my life. I've never had trouble seeing my GP and she is a full fledged doctor. My biggest obsticle is that she's off 2-3 days a week for other duties or vacation. (I think she works a 4 day week and rotates at another clinic), If I can't wait I just go see one of the other ones at the practice.

and if I don't have a GP I go to the walk in clinic.

All of it covered, no questions about money. You just walk in an show your healthcard.


That being said there are longer waits for surgeons and specialist. However, I rarely need those.
It's not always as bad as it sounds here. Emergencies are still treated immediately.

Besides, the point is that socialization of health care wouldn't actually change wait times. It likely wouldn't make a huge difference.
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