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  #37  
Old 01-20-2012, 12:05 AM
ProfHenryHiggins ProfHenryHiggins is offline
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Re: Empower Network vs Pyramid Scheme Mindset

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetheat View Post
You're still missing the point. What you described Henry is a chain Gift scheme whatever that is.

A pyramid scheme is defined by its inherent structure.

The EN structure is not a pyramid scheme, no matter how much you want it to be one.

Its a very powerful affiliate system.

I said, right at the start, that what I was was describing wasn't about Empower, but about your assumptions of what makes something a pyramid scheme or not one. I gave you an example. Please refresh your grade school experiences with reading comprehension.



  #38  
Old 01-20-2012, 12:26 AM
Jetheat Jetheat is offline
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Re: Empower Network vs Pyramid Scheme Mindset

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Originally Posted by Bassdefender View Post
Here is a question, Amin. All over the EN website they claim "100% commissions."

If I was the first person who signed up under you, how much money would you get from the second person who signed up under you? What about the fourth?

Be honest, because I already know the answer. I know you'll try to spin it by saying that the person below you has to pass up their even numbered recruits, but that's just passing the problem down. 100% commission on 50% of your "sales" isn't really 100% commission.
Actually, it is 100% commissions.

Its 100% from the people that you are eligible to receive money from according to the structure of the program.

If the person you signed up isn't due to give you any money (according to the payment structure of the program), then you get nothing.

It's still 100% or nothing.

Higgins, you're just a plain idiot.
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  #39  
Old 01-20-2012, 07:07 AM
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needs2stop needs2stop is offline
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Re: Empower Network vs Pyramid Scheme Mindset

Quote:
So these images and that type of site - is that what makes it a scam? Explain to me, how something, just because it looks like other sites, makes it a scam.
If it walks like a duck...
Quote:
EN gives its members a blog and hosting and asks them to blog daily for SEO purposes.
I'm not trying to be mean, but now I actually feel sorry for you. Let me guess, you just stumbled upon EN recently, learned about "SEO" and "Hosting" and thought it was a really novel idea for a business. Well guess what, affiliate marketing and SEO has been around for YEARS. Now is not the time to strike while the iron is hot. That time has since passed.

Again, if an MLM is not a pyramid scheme, it must have a product or service that it is based around selling. Blogging is not a product or service. Writing about "SEO" is not a product or service. Typing about how to get hosting is not a product or service. So I ask you, what product or service does EN sell?
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  #40  
Old 01-20-2012, 07:53 AM
Jetheat Jetheat is offline
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Re: Empower Network vs Pyramid Scheme Mindset

Who on earth told you that a blog is not a product? Just because its free does not make it a product.

Then, who will pay for hosting? Is that not a product?

And if it walks like a duck... by that logic, if you look like your dog, you are a dog, right?
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  #41  
Old 01-20-2012, 08:11 AM
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needs2stop needs2stop is offline
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Re: Empower Network vs Pyramid Scheme Mindset

Quote:
Who on earth told you that a blog is not a product? Just because its free does not make it a product.

Then, who will pay for hosting? Is that not a product?
A blog is not a product or service. Everyone knows that. A blog is a page you write on the internet. The cyber space required to post a blog would be hosting, which IS a real product. But EN is not a host, so that is not a product of theirs. They just refer people to a hosting provider as part of their affiliate setup.

Again, I've witnessed this exact scam unfold before. What makes it a scam is that there is no underlying product or service. All they are doing is advertising the "opportunity" to be an affiliate for some other company. "Advertising opportunities" is how MLMs like these manifest the scam. Advertising a product or service would be one thing. But advertising the "opportunity" to sell a product or service makes this a pyramid scheme, since it involves recruiting others to do this too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetheat View Post
And if it walks like a duck... by that logic, if you look like your dog, you are a dog, right?
Huh???

I don't really know what that means. But the point I was making is that if their site is a mimick of every other scam site I've seen, then it's probably a scam. Not a very hard concept to grasp.
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  #42  
Old 01-20-2012, 07:26 PM
Jetheat Jetheat is offline
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Re: Empower Network vs Pyramid Scheme Mindset

If a blog is not a product or a service, then its thin air, right? It came from nowhere and nobody owns it, correct? Do you know how stupid you sound with every post you make?

Then, who cares if EN is not a host. If they resell hosting services, what does that have to do with charging for anything about a scam?

You claim -- What makes it a scam is that there is no underlying product or service.

The blog and hosting is the product you fool. No matter how much you want to see it as a "non-product", does not stop it from being a product. Just because blogs are free, you're under the perception that its not a product. That's a result of poor perception.

You claim -- But advertising the "opportunity" to sell a product or service makes this a pyramid scheme, since it involves recruiting others to do this too.

Once again, where the f*** did you come up with this definition of a pyramid scheme. Every post I have asked you to come up with a legit definition, but you fail to do that and yet you insist on providing your own warped ideas and opinions of what a pyramid scheme is.

I think I'm done talking to a stone. Obviously, you wont see sense because of your blindness.

Post as you like, I'm done convincing.

If you wanna read more about your mentality and what the difference is between EN and a pyramid scheme, read my post here.

Signing off,

JH
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  #43  
Old 01-20-2012, 07:37 PM
ProfHenryHiggins ProfHenryHiggins is offline
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Re: Empower Network vs Pyramid Scheme Mindset

Jetheat, you were given definitions of what a pyramid scheme is under the law (from several nations, to boot) several times. Please take the blinders off and LEARN TO READ.

I'm not arguing that Empower is one; I'm arguing that you have misinformation and a defective idea of what one is. Do I have to coach everything in terms of programs you personally endorse and use in order for you to understand what I'm saying? Are you truly unable to comprehend things which are neither worded as an attack nor as support?


  #44  
Old 01-24-2012, 08:35 AM
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needs2stop needs2stop is offline
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Re: Empower Network vs Pyramid Scheme Mindset

Typical ad hom responder. You calmly provide them with explanations and facts, and their response: "You fool!"

That doesn't speak much for their side of the argument, now does it?

But I think we can teach Jetheat something here today. By his own words, he's admitted that "blogs" are EN's only product. Well, what is a blog?

Most people today use programs like Wordpress. This is a quick and simple blogging application that most people can use. So simple in fact, that ANYONE can set up a website and allow users to sign up on their blog and make their own blog posts. You don't need some pyramid scheme to do this either! You can literally go to any web hosting provider and buy a website and put a blog on it for less than $100.

My problem with scams like EN is that if you think what they are doing is such a great business idea, then you might as well just elminate from the equation and do what they are doing by cutting out the middle man. All you are doing anyway is just copying and pasting meaningless marketing and SEO information into your blogs, so you don't need EN for this. Why split the profits with them? Instead just continue doing the same thing, get yourself a webhosting affiliate account, and market your own site and company the same way EN does.

I guess the point I'm making is that even if you believe EN is a good business model, it would make more sense to just go out and do what they are doing on your own. But most people can't and don't want to start their own BS pyramid scheme, which is why they join one's that are already in existence.
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  #45  
Old 02-12-2012, 11:09 PM
anolinde anolinde is offline
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Problems canceling Empower Network

Just wondering if anyone here has the same problems and if so, how'd you guys fix it.

I joined EN back in October and figured right away it wasn't for me. So, I canceled my subscription to EN. A month later, I found that I was billed yet another $25, so I submitted a ticket to their support desk, who confirmed and assured me that my subscription has been canceled. A month later, I was billed yet again! So, I contacted my sponsor AND support desk once again. My sponsor said he would change from a merchant account to paypal (or something like that) so I won't get charged and support desk said the same thing ... my subscription is canceled, but she would forward my complaint to the programmers. Sure enough, a month later, I got billed again! Support desk wrote me and said sorry, programmers never got back to her and she doesn't know what the problem is.

So, I called my credit card company who said they'll try to contact the company that bills me and have them stop charging (I'm not very convinced this would work anymore). I asked what would happen if I just canceled my credit card, and they told me they would have to bill me still if the company bills them.

Looks like I have no way out By the way, I got charged by a company called National Solutions Gro, which I guess is a merchant's account? Their email has a linkpt.net attached to it, so I think it's part of Link Point, which I think used to be First Data?

Anybody has any idea what I should do? Anybody has/had the same problem? HELP, please!


  #46  
Old 02-12-2012, 11:16 PM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline
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Re: Problems canceling Empower Network

It sounds like the recurring payment subscription wasn't canceled in your sponsor's merchant account. Have you contacted your (former) sponsor about it directly? They say if it's Paypal you, the buyer, have to cancel it from within your Paypal account. But if it was Linkpoint, then I have no idea what their deal is. It's your sponsor's merchant account that is taking the money and maybe they need to delete the subscription payment manually if the system didn't delete it.

If you have the email receipt of cancellation and such, then I'd just file a chargeback on the subsequent months.

This is precisely one of the ENORMOUS reasons why EN is such a slippery slope. Sorry you are getting burned.


  #47  
Old 02-12-2012, 11:44 PM
anolinde anolinde is offline
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Re: Problems canceling Empower Network

Hi, thanks for the reply.

Yes, I contacted my sponsor. This is what he said, "I removed the merchant account and I am now using the Pay Pal option so you should not get charged in the future." This was back in December. Well, it's apparently not working .. and I don't want to bug him again .. he's already said he doesn't have a merchant's account. What else can he do? (If I were him, I'd refund the money since he knows I have tried to cancel and obviously not happy and don't want the product, but I guess not everyone thinks like that ..)

What do you mean by "filing a chargeback"? How do I do that?

BTW, I never paid by paypal, so my paypal account doesn't have a recurring payment with them. I checked.

Thanks, Wabbajact :)




  #48  
Old 02-12-2012, 11:57 PM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline
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Re: Problems canceling Empower Network

A chargeback is where you dispute the charge with your credit card (or bank if it's a debit card). They all have a chargeback procedure that usually involves you filling out a form.

And that's super messed up if your sponsor supposedly doesn't even have the merchant account any more then who the heck is the money going to? This reeks of theft.


  #49  
Old 02-13-2012, 02:50 PM
Once Upon a Time Once Upon a Time is offline
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Re: Problems canceling Empower Network

Getting screwed by getting involved in MLM? Hard to imagine! Next thing you know, someone is going to tell us that the sun is going to come up tomorrow, or that water is wet.


  #50  
Old 04-14-2012, 10:13 AM
jackbenny jackbenny is offline
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MLM Brothers Empower Scam

Ok, so the MLM brothers... the people behind this website seem like good guys. I had actually been on their email list for a day before I found their website.

My problem is not with the company, but the MLM brothers review website. Their website is pretty bad, ugly and it's full of keyword spam which did put me off. Their website claims they will help and I don't think they really do.

How many networkers really help their downline?

I am not sure about signing up via their website, anyone have experience with these guys?


Last edited by jackbenny : 04-14-2012 at 04:13 PM.

  #51  
Old 04-14-2012, 10:20 AM
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Re: MLM Brothers Empower Scam


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  #52  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:44 PM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline
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Re: MLM Brothers Empower Scam

Withdrawn as the OP edited their post after my comment.


Last edited by Wabbajack : 04-15-2012 at 11:35 PM.

  #53  
Old 04-28-2012, 01:25 PM
Bassdefender Bassdefender is offline
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Empower Network 80% conversion rate

Really, I feel like the title says enough. If someone tells you their ads have an 80% conversion rate, they are lying. If you believe them, you deserve the ensuing scam. From some of the stats I've seen, 10% would be incredibly high.

Discuss.


  #54  
Old 04-28-2012, 11:53 PM
GeryD GeryD is offline
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Re: Empower Network 80% conversion rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdefender View Post
Really, I feel like the title says enough. If someone tells you their ads have an 80% conversion rate, they are lying. If you believe them, you deserve the ensuing scam. From some of the stats I've seen, 10% would be incredibly high.

Discuss.
What's to discuss? 80% is possible... WHEN YOU'RE GIVING AWAY SOMETHING FOR NOTHING. Probable is another story. But any claims of converting those 80 out of 100 to consistant revenue generating members is certainly worthy of a place in the pasture with the rest of the BS. The only people that will take opposition to that are most likely the ones propogating it.
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