report scams here at scam.com dont get scammed Scams and Scammers - Expose hypocrisy and spread respect ! Don't get ripped off! REGISTER
Go Back   scams > Scam Message Board > MLM Scams
Register FAQ Register To Post Member List Promote Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-20-2012, 03:04 PM
Joecool44's Avatar
Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
Joe Is Cool
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,414
IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

One of the things I believe ti be completely false about MLM is that hard work will result in success. It's not true in many many cases. Let me add a disclaimer if you are a rare IBO or in a rare MLM that sells a lot of stuff to actual non IBO customers, this may not apply.

But let's take Amway for example. In the 6-4-2 plan, the group consists of 79 IBO's, all who move 100 points in a month. We know that "most" will do nothing or will do a little.

But if all 79 IBO's in my Amway example, worked hard and moved their 100 PV, still, only one person can be a platinum. That's 1 in 79. If the entire world signed up for Amway and worked hard, with nobody quitting or doing little, guess what? About 1 in 79 will be platinum.

The system is set up that way. When you factor in people who do little or nothing, you will easily need 150 to 200 downline in order to move platinum volume.

Add in business expenses and maybe some conventions and cds and the group is capable of operating at a net loss. In Amway, I believe many IBO's fail, because they have to.


Reply With Quote

  #2  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:23 AM
BoxAlarm126's Avatar
BoxAlarm126 BoxAlarm126 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,259
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
One of the things I believe ti be completely false about MLM is that hard work will result in success. It's not true in many many cases. Let me add a disclaimer if you are a rare IBO or in a rare MLM that sells a lot of stuff to actual non IBO customers, this may not apply.

But let's take Amway for example. In the 6-4-2 plan, the group consists of 79 IBO's, all who move 100 points in a month. We know that "most" will do nothing or will do a little.

But if all 79 IBO's in my Amway example, worked hard and moved their 100 PV, still, only one person can be a platinum. That's 1 in 79. If the entire world signed up for Amway and worked hard, with nobody quitting or doing little, guess what? About 1 in 79 will be platinum.

The system is set up that way. When you factor in people who do little or nothing, you will easily need 150 to 200 downline in order to move platinum volume.

Add in business expenses and maybe some conventions and cds and the group is capable of operating at a net loss. In Amway, I believe many IBO's fail, because they have to.
I started a thread a little while back called "MLM's are Self Limiting," and another called "MLM is not Designed to Provide Financial Freedom."

The above would be a good example of these notions.
__________________
MLM's Mission Statement:

"The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."



Reply With Quote

  #3  
Old 04-23-2012, 01:05 PM
Joecool44's Avatar
Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
Joe Is Cool
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,414
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
One in 79 can be platinum...

I don't know Amway...or what platinum means.... but I imagine that there are slivers, and golds and coppers or whatever...

In my life I've worked in Pizzarias....out of the hundreds that worked there, there was only one owner..

I've built shopping centers, and high rises....now there are over 1,000 folks that can point at that same building and say "I built that" The owner, the mortgage broker, the architects, the draftsman, the engineers, every plumber, electrician, laborer....hundreds of craft people, laborers and professionals.... dozens of formen, superintendents, project managers... all different levels....all gained incrementally, all with people below them....but only one that leads the whole pack, only one at the top...that owner we all worked for.

But guess what, they retire, or quit building or die...and someone takes their place...and those that are dedicated work their way up the ladder, some the school way...from draftsman to architect or engineer, others hard knocks, from laborer, to carpenter to foreman to super to PM....(P latinu M)

just time and another 79, and more time and effort and another 79...

how many platinums will there be? Just as many that put in the effort and the time.
The difference is that the 1000 workers who built the bulding got paid. The 1000 IBOs looking at the "diamond empire" or whatever likely did not have a net profit collectively.

Reply With Quote

  #4  
Old 04-23-2012, 01:12 PM
Joecool44's Avatar
Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
Joe Is Cool
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,414
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
of course they got paid in the employment pyramid, perhaps you don't know the difference between employment and a business opportunity.
That's the debate. Is it MLM or a pyramid scheme?

Reply With Quote

  #5  
Old 04-24-2012, 04:14 PM
Joecool44's Avatar
Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
Joe Is Cool
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,414
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
of course they got paid in the employment pyramid, perhaps you don't know the difference between employment and a business opportunity.
Employment is positive cashflow and MLM is a negative cashflow.

Reply With Quote

  #6  
Old 04-24-2012, 04:22 PM
calvinandhobbes calvinandhobbes is offline
Band
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,304
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
how many platinums will there be? Just as many that put in the effort and the time.
I believe this to be the single biggest lie/misconception/misunderstanding/etc about MLM communicated around here.

Putting in time/effort/resources/etc does not mean you mill make one dime in MLM. Only results matter (sales and recruiting). If everyone puts in the time and effort you say is necessary, most will still fail. It's structurally built into MLM. Most may very well put in little to no effort, but even if they did, the results wouldn't change much for most.

You can compare to some mythical "business pyramid" all you want, but the reality is those at the bottom of a traditional business don't have to put people under them to put food on the table (ie, earn real income levels) while MLM does need that, thus you need the perpetual growth that is impossible in an exponential structure.
__________________
I'm not selling anything, so I don't need links in my signature to for-profit ventures. You really should question the intentions of those here that have them, as they are generally advertising, not informing.

Reply With Quote

  #7  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:24 PM
calvinandhobbes calvinandhobbes is offline
Band
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,304
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
sure you are correct, results are needed it is a given.
Yet conveniently glossed over...
Quote:
and it takes time and effort to get results...
But time and effort don't correlate to results. You will VERY LIKELY see no results without time and effort, and you will also VERY LIKELY see little results with time and effort.
Quote:
and the results are rediculously small at the beginning....
And likely ridiculously small throughout.

Way to miss the point.
__________________
I'm not selling anything, so I don't need links in my signature to for-profit ventures. You really should question the intentions of those here that have them, as they are generally advertising, not informing.

Reply With Quote

  #8  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:14 AM
travelingman's Avatar
travelingman travelingman is offline
What choo talkin bout Willis?
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 243
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvinandhobbes View Post
But time and effort don't correlate to results. You will VERY LIKELY see no results without time and effort, and you will also VERY LIKELY see little results with time and effort.
If assigned the task of of harvesting a tree, would your choice of removal be by:

hammer (maximum time and effort / minimal result)
or
chainsaw (maximum result / minimal time and effort)

While most people that sign up for a MLM make absolutely no attempt whatsoever at the task, (no result / no time and effort) there is also a demographic that refuses to or is not capable of (ex: introverts usually don't make the best salespeople) learning and honing the required skillset, while spending the majority of their time and effort beating a tree with a hammer. Ultimately, they leave exhausted and in disgust, convinced the tree can not be harvested. If one is willing to be instructed in the proper use of a chainsaw, and its proficiency is mastered, a forest can be harvested exponentially.
__________________
The cynic is one who never sees a good quality in a man, and never fails to see a bad one

Reply With Quote

  #9  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:20 AM
char's Avatar
char char is offline
Darkness Shines on Pyramids
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reality
Posts: 459
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwil View Post

In my life I've worked in Pizzarias....out of the hundreds that worked there, there was only one owner..
If you believe what MLMers tell you, the hundreds that worked there would think they were owners of the pizzeria too!!

The waiters weren't called waiters, they were called Independent Serving Entrepreneurs, ISEs.
__________________
If MLM is such a wonderful business model, why aren't you still doing Amway?

Reply With Quote

  #10  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:03 AM
needs2stop's Avatar
needs2stop needs2stop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,630
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

I agree about MLMs requiring failures. Most people who join buy a certain amount of products or services, sometimes even being locked into long term contracts. This means the MLM gets money up front and also some residual, regardless of what the customer/rep ends up doing in the future. Most will fail and quit anyway, so the sooner they quit and vanish, the better. Because that means no more wasted time on reps who aren't bringing fresh blood into the MLM.

Its kind of like a car salesman who sells a new Cadillac and the customer keeps coming back everyday asking questions about it and tying up the salesman's time. He already got the commission off that customer, and unless the customer plans on referring his friends to buy more cars, that salesman has NOTHING to gain by continuing to deal with the customer. MLM is the same way. Once they have your money, they don't want anything to do with you unless you plan on bringing them more money.
__________________
There is not one woman on this planet capable of finishing an entire can of soda.

Reply With Quote

  #11  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:33 AM
James R's Avatar
James R James R is offline
I'm no crook...my upline told me to do it!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,597
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingman View Post
While most people that sign up for a MLM make absolutely no attempt whatsoever at the task, (no result / no time and effort) there is also a demographic that refuses to or is not capable of (ex: introverts usually don't make the best salespeople) learning and honing the required skillset, while spending the majority of their time and effort beating a tree with a hammer.
Why waste your time on a bunch of tree beaters in the first place?

Could it be that squeezing a couple of months of autoship out of them before they quit is better than getting nothing at all?
__________________
Excited about Nopalea Cactus Juice? Learn how to make your own for FREE!
Don't be another "$50 a bottle" sucker....best of all you know exaclty what's in it. Click HERE.


Here's a good one....
"That's why I changed my 'story'".
Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?

Reply With Quote

  #12  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:00 AM
travelingman's Avatar
travelingman travelingman is offline
What choo talkin bout Willis?
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 243
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James R View Post
Why waste your time on a bunch of tree beaters in the first place?
Unless you are divinely blessed with the gift of predicting the future how can you possibly know what anyone's future efforts (or lack thereof) may hold? Some people are motivated to search out and aquire the appropriate knowledge, and go on to accomplish great things, while others, who want something for nothing, aren't. Background is no indication whatsoever of one's future ability, sorta like this guy.
__________________
The cynic is one who never sees a good quality in a man, and never fails to see a bad one

Reply With Quote

  #13  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:01 AM
gsoh2011 gsoh2011 is offline
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 87
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingman View Post
If assigned the task of of harvesting a tree, would your choice of removal be by:

hammer (maximum time and effort / minimal result)
or
chainsaw (maximum result / minimal time and effort)
I would do neither.

I would join the new TREE Scheme. The TREE Scheme recognises the need that people have for harvesting trees. TREE does not need to deal with difficult things like chainsaws, and employees, instead it has a new very innovative method. The method is secret.

To have your tree cut down, you need to pay $200. This gives you a pack that tells you how to recruit more people into the TREE scheme, and also gets you 200 chainsaw credits.

The tree itself remains standing for now, but in 6 months time a new social website and credit card will be launched.

There is also a TREE website. The website will explain how it is not a scam. It will use words like "It is not a scam", thereby proving it is not a scam.

Thousands of people will join TREE. They will post things in forums like "I don't know how the tree gets cut down but if I recruit 100 new members I get to be a Platinum/Gold/Copper/Any Old Iron member. And I get my own control panel and I can log in and there's a helpdesk and people upline who will mentor me"

TREE will also operate seminars on tree-felling. There will be Youtube videos on tree-felling.

If anybody questions the business model of TREE, the answer will be "I don't know / it launches in 6 months / you will be sued for libel / I'm making thousands in chainsaw credits"

If anybody asks why the tree remains standing, they will be answered with statements like "don't you know tree-felling is a trillion dollar business / Google doesn't pay out for tree-felling but TREE does/ you are cynical"

TREE membership will grow to thousands, and millions of dollars will be paid into TREE.

The tree itself remains standing.

If anybody complains they are not earning, they will be told that it is because they are not trying hard enough.

Eventually, TREE implodes, unable to pay out to all the members. It will take up to two years to implode. The owner of TREE will be out of jurisdiction at the time of collapse.

As for the real tree itself ?

That will eventually be cut down by somebody who has invested time and effort in acquiring a skill, has bought a chainsaw, they will put in real work, and get an appropriate fee from the tree owner.

Reply With Quote

  #14  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:19 AM
travelingman's Avatar
travelingman travelingman is offline
What choo talkin bout Willis?
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 243
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoh2011 View Post

As for the real tree itself ?

That will eventually be cut down by somebody who has invested time and effort in acquiring a skill, has bought a chainsaw, they will put in real work, and get an appropriate fee from the tree owner.
My point precisely! Well said!
__________________
The cynic is one who never sees a good quality in a man, and never fails to see a bad one

Reply With Quote

  #15  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:26 AM
James R's Avatar
James R James R is offline
I'm no crook...my upline told me to do it!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,597
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingman View Post
Unless you are divinely blessed with the gift of predicting the future how can you possibly know what anyone's future efforts (or lack thereof) may hold? Some people are motivated to search out and aquire the appropriate knowledge, and go on to accomplish great things, while others, who want something for nothing, aren't. Background is no indication whatsoever of one's future ability, sorta like this guy.
If businesses hired at a 99% failure rate they wouldn't be around long.

It's funny how MLMer's will compare their MLM schemes to a job when it is convienient but refuse to apply common sense principles that apply to both.
__________________
Excited about Nopalea Cactus Juice? Learn how to make your own for FREE!
Don't be another "$50 a bottle" sucker....best of all you know exaclty what's in it. Click HERE.


Here's a good one....
"That's why I changed my 'story'".
Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?

Reply With Quote

  #16  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Joecool44's Avatar
Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
Joe Is Cool
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,414
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James R View Post
If businesses hired at a 99% failure rate they wouldn't be around long.

It's funny how MLMer's will compare their MLM schemes to a job when it is convienient but refuse to apply common sense principles that apply to both.
Or make stupid comparisons of MLM to college for that matter.

Reply With Quote

  #17  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:33 PM
Skeptical_MLM'er Skeptical_MLM'er is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 861
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
Or make stupid comparisons of MLM to college for that matter.
No kidding..

Cost for MLM with unlimited potential Approx $200

Cost for College Education with unlimited potential Approx 150k

You are right... No comparison

Both only offer the "opportunity"

Neither guarantees ANYTHING!!

Reply With Quote

  #18  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:36 PM
Joecool44's Avatar
Joecool44 Joecool44 is offline
Joe Is Cool
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,414
Re: IBO's Fail In MLM - Because They Have To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptical_MLM'er View Post
No kidding..

Cost for MLM with unlimited potential Approx $200

Cost for College Education with unlimited potential Approx 150k

You are right... No comparison

Both only offer the "opportunity"

Neither guarantees ANYTHING!!
Average MLM income $2K annually (no benefits)

Average college grad income $50K annually (Plus typically 401K, medical, dental, paid vacation)

Yep, you're a genius. Not.


Reply With Quote

Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Global Green Agenda Continues To Fail and Fail pwrone Political Chat 2 05-30-2012 11:11 PM
Limbaugh Triumphs, Filth Continue to Fail and Fail pwrone Political Chat 7 05-12-2012 11:23 PM
Why do people fail at MLM? ChrisDoyle MLM Scams 44 01-08-2012 01:20 AM
98% Fail Rate In MLM ChrisDoyle MLM Scams 49 11-20-2011 07:13 PM
Bush: If At First You Don't Succeed - Fail Fail Again dchristie Political Chat 71 02-03-2007 06:13 PM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump




This site may contain advice, opinions and statements of various information providers. Scam.com does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any advice, opinion, statement or other information provided by any information provider, any User of this Site or any other person or entity. Reliance upon any such advice, opinion, statement, or other information shall also be at the Userís own risk. Neither Scam.com nor its affiliates, nor any of their respective agents, employees, information providers or content providers, shall be liable to any User or anyone else for any inaccuracy, error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, alteration of or use of any content herein, or for its timeliness or completeness, nor shall they be liable for any failure of performance, computer virus or communication line failure, regardless of cause, or for any damages resulting therefrom. Just because a business, person, or entity is listed on scam.com does not necessarily constitute they are scammers. This is a free open forum where people can debate the merits from the consumer's or business owner's perspective. Registration and participation is always FREE.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 AM.




Scam.com Is Proudly Hosted By Rackco and Protected By CloudFlare


Scams Message Board - Copyright 2004-2013 Scam.com , All Rights Reserved.