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  #19  
Old 02-21-2012, 10:30 PM
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eugene66 eugene66 is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
oh, you mean the FM Principle.
If you are talking about radio waves then I agree.

It seems we have to "tune in" to another resonance to make it visible or observable or rather experience-able to us.

While we may not be able to do so with our bodies the free energy people say we can still draw energy from there.

Col Tom Bearden was a physisist studying quantum/scalar warfare technology at the Pentagon. He made a "ZPM" (borrowed from Stargate. Zero Point Module) that you can buy or you can make your own. Schematics are freely available on the internet by hobbyists who made their own..

Its device with four static magnets and coils that generates electricity where it stands with no moving parts. Bearden claims it draws energy straight from the zero point field. As did Tesla when he first invented it.

Tesla was quoted for saying "With one cubic inch of void you can have energy for life."


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  #20  
Old 02-21-2012, 11:08 PM
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
Noted. You said so many times but I never saw you arguing like one.

I have seen many physisists studying quantum behaviour at universities and places like CERN and they all say the same things. You don't seem to ever agree with them.

You also don't seem to come up with explanations of your own other than to say they speak nonsense. So I take it the theory you learned from does not support them. I don't think it will because they are on the frontier. They are studying stuff that might make the text books in twenty years or so. Providing the powers that be approves ofcourse.

Because I myself am not privy to quantum smashers, I can only go with what they observe. There are many of them saying it is observed. You say its nonsense.

If you came up with convincing arguments I might be swayed to agree with you.
Errr.... Which physicists am I disagreeing with exactly? Are you sure you don't have me confused with someone else?

My research is in quantum mechanics, computational relativistic atomic structure to be exact. It's also very, very mainstream - last year I published in Physical Review A (twice) and Physics Letters (two of the most popular physics journals). I just resubmitted another paper to Physical Review A today actually.

So again, who am I disagreeing with? Give me names. I know people at CERN, I did my undergraduate studies with people who are now working there. I am not a particle physicist, but one of my supervisors is and works on data from CERN (looking into C-P violation if I remember correctly).

And what do you mean I don't ever post any explanations? Check out the thread stickied at the top of this forum if you want my personal explanation of quantum mechanics (remembering that I have simplified things for a general audience in that thread).


Last edited by kazza : 02-21-2012 at 11:11 PM.
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  #21  
Old 02-21-2012, 11:39 PM
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazza View Post
Errr.... Which physicists am I disagreeing with exactly? Are you sure you don't have me confused with someone else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Einstein
If you watched the video you would see how the quantum physicists explain where zero point energy comes from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazza
What you just said is absolute nonsense.
I suppose you did not watch the video because you cannot know completely what Einstein saying when you don't see the CP people on the video saying what he is talking about.



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  #22  
Old 02-22-2012, 12:09 AM
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
I suppose you did not watch the video because you cannot know completely what Einstein saying when you don't see the CP people on the video saying what he is talking about.
There are three hours worth of videos posted here, I'm sorry but I don't have that sort of time to waste.

However, this idea is not new. This is not the first time I have encountered it, and it's not the first time it's been posted on scam.com. For that matter, these same scams have existed for 200 years - without fail they have turned out to be false.



edit: Oh, and I'm well aware of what zero point energy is (although outside of crackpot circles, we tend to just call it the ground state energy). It has nothing to do with extra dimensions, and if it were able to be tapped then it would (by definition) not have been the ground state to begin with.


Last edited by kazza : 02-22-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-22-2012, 12:54 AM
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazza View Post
There are three hours worth of videos posted here, I'm sorry but I don't have that sort of time to waste.

However, this idea is not new. This is not the first time I have encountered it, and it's not the first time it's been posted on scam.com. For that matter, these same scams have existed for 200 years - without fail they have turned out to be false.



edit: Oh, and I'm well aware of what zero point energy is (although outside of crackpot circles, we tend to just call it the ground state energy). It has nothing to do with extra dimensions, and if it were able to be tapped then it would (by definition) not have been the ground state to begin with.
Question...
RE by definition: Zero point or 'ground state', is that because by simply measuring it you would input energy to it and take it out of ground state?

Keep it simple. THX

(undergrad Physics is as far as I got, and that was 30+ years ago)

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  #24  
Old 02-22-2012, 02:03 AM
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Kelderek Kelderek is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

I'm sure there are a lot of interesting speculations that can be made about using various theoretically possible applications of quantum mechanics for practical purposes. Some might even have the potential to revolutionize our energy production.

However, I have a problem connecting that to silly videos with guys showing a crude desk-top device claiming that they have solved the Holy Grail of Free Energy.

If there are, as Eugene claims, "schematics freely available on the Internet", why don't people just build their own free energy device?

If, as Eugene claims, Col Tom Beardens CPM device is for sale, why don't we see it used in every home?

I suspect the answer is pretty simple: It doesn't work.

Whenever a "free energy device" is announced, it appears to be very difficult to get the inventor to allow it to be subjected to independent tests. Why? Simply because it doesn't work.

Stanley Myers water powered car was brought up again...
We had a lengthy thread about it some time ago. I had a question in that thread that never got answered. Maybe now is the time:

If Myers car run on water and produces nothing but water as exhaust... why does he have to fill it up with water to keep it running? Why not just connect the exhaust to the engine and have it run on nothing?

The claim is that his energy device split water into hydrogen and oxygen, then the car burns hydrogen with water as the only biproduct. Howcome Myers missed that obvious detail?
Maybe because his claims are bullshiz?

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  #25  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:10 AM
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1stein 1stein is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazza View Post
There are three hours worth of videos posted here, I'm sorry but I don't have that sort of time to waste.
So how can you say anything on what I said when you have no idea about what I am talking about? You SPECULATE my meaning and then reply to that?

I call that prejudice

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazza View Post
However, this idea is not new. This is not the first time I have encountered it, and it's not the first time it's been posted on scam.com. For that matter, these same scams have existed for 200 years - without fail they have turned out to be false.
Clearly you didn't see the videos.
So you saw it once and now your mind is made up and you will not look at the latest developments in this field?

I suppose you are entitled to your world view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazza View Post
edit: Oh, and I'm well aware of what zero point energy is (although outside of crackpot circles, we tend to just call it the ground state energy). It has nothing to do with extra dimensions, and if it were able to be tapped then it would (by definition) not have been the ground state to begin with.
Makes sense. Although I cannot be sure when you closed your mind with your conclusion so this information you are giving me could be outdated.

I was actually revering to a video I haven't posted yet reffering to 4D energy tapping. But it would irrelevant to post it for you because you will only see what you already made your mind up about and skip the video LOL.

I am not saying it is or it isn't either. I am questioning the videos but what you say I cannot work with. It could be outdated.

Well you may be a Physicist but you are not a scientist. Scientist always consider the probability of new developments and expansion.
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  #26  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:21 AM
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelderek View Post
I'm sure there are a lot of interesting speculations that can be made about using various theoretically possible applications of quantum mechanics for practical purposes. Some might even have the potential to revolutionize our energy production.

However, I have a problem connecting that to silly videos with guys showing a crude desk-top device claiming that they have solved the Holy Grail of Free Energy.

If there are, as Eugene claims, "schematics freely available on the Internet", why don't people just build their own free energy device?

If, as Eugene claims, Col Tom Beardens CPM device is for sale, why don't we see it used in every home?

I suspect the answer is pretty simple: It doesn't work.

Whenever a "free energy device" is announced, it appears to be very difficult to get the inventor to allow it to be subjected to independent tests. Why? Simply because it doesn't work.

Stanley Myers water powered car was brought up again...
We had a lengthy thread about it some time ago. I had a question in that thread that never got answered. Maybe now is the time:

If Myers car run on water and produces nothing but water as exhaust... why does he have to fill it up with water to keep it running? Why not just connect the exhaust to the engine and have it run on nothing?

The claim is that his energy device split water into hydrogen and oxygen, then the car burns hydrogen with water as the only biproduct. Howcome Myers missed that obvious detail?
Maybe because his claims are bullshiz?
I suppose he did not take his exhaust water because he did not want to? There is enough water around.

I can imagine the simple complications to ad another water trap on the exhaust pipe and pipe it back to the tank.

The answer to your questions about why so little people do it I see as a gullible assumption. Is that there are people like you and most of us I think who will not believe its true and then there are people who have a huge investment in charging a lot of money for energy that has the resources to enforce the myth I suppose?

Remember schools were created by industry for industry. It is in mainstream industries interest that we pay for energy.
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  #27  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:50 AM
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stein View Post
I suppose he did not take his exhaust water because he did not want to? There is enough water around.

I can imagine the simple complications to ad another water trap on the exhaust pipe and pipe it back to the tank.

The answer to your questions about why so little people do it I see as a gullible assumption. Is that there are people like you and most of us I think who will not believe its true and then there are people who have a huge investment in charging a lot of money for energy that has the resources to enforce the myth I suppose?

Remember schools were created by industry for industry. It is in mainstream industries interest that we pay for energy.
Are you serious?
Free energy devices does not fail on the market because of "gullible assumptions". They fail because they don't work. Period.

As for the rest of your post:

I have no problem believing it's true if someone shows me evidence it's true.

I'll be happy to install a "free energy" device at home if there is one to buy that is verified to work.

I would even be happy to build it myself if I found reliable plans and drawings that made sense.

There's just one catch:
What appears to work on the Internet does not necessarily work in real life.

Just show evidence that it does and I'm in!

This has nothing to do with evil conspiracies orchestrated by politicians or the utilities industry.
It's more simple than that:

Nobody has showed a free energy device that, when subjected to an independent test, works in real life.

When that changes, I'll believe in it.

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  #28  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:08 AM
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
The water fuel cell is a purported free energy device invented by American Stanley Allen Meyer (August 24, 1940 – March 21, 1998). He claimed that an automobile retrofitted with the device could use water as fuel instead of gasoline. The fuel cell purportedly split water into its component elements, hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen was then burned to generate energy, a process that reconstituted the water molecules. According to Meyer, the device required less energy to perform electrolysis than the minimum energy requirement predicted or measured by conventional science.[1] If the device worked as specified, it would violate both the first and second laws of thermodynamics,[1][2] allowing operation as a perpetual motion machine.[2] Meyer's claims about his "Water Fuel Cell" and the car that it powered were found to be fraudulent by an Ohio court in 1996.[1][3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer's_water_fuel_cell

some more about water as fuel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen
Whomever wrote this in Wikipedia did not know what Stan did.
I don't know what you call it but he did NOT use electrolysis.

The first step in water for fuel is to make a simple booster. An electrolyses device that enable sufficient burning of all the fuel. Once done it creates zero emission and most of your savings are unburnt fuel that is now burning. On my 1300 Toyota I get about 20 to 30% more to the tank with the one I made.

The next step is to utilize the electricity more efficiently by pulsing it with electronics. For example on my booster it takes about 12 amps to generate hydrogen/oxygen at about one litre a minute to be conservative.

My expectation is that if I use pulsed electricity I can develop two litres a minute but with only 6 amps. Only then does it become phenominal in my view. I am still looking for simple schematics to enable me to do the change.

Up to now all I get are super duper schematics for people who run on 70 or more % water. I want something simple.

Stan developed a pulsing method that rips the hydrogen and the oxygen apart with an electro magnetic pulse that uses three phases. It gives three pulses but each one stronger than the one before. Thats why he maintained that water Period will work. No chemicals needed to make it conduct electricity.

This is a demo of how a fuel sell works . It uses incredibly little electricity to run.



This was his home test. You can see the water contained bubbling Hydrogen/oxygen on the ground there piped to the engine.



Then he fitted it all and made the news.



He was at a restaurant the day before he was going to sign a contract with the US military when he died. He claimed he was poisoned as he died.

Quote:
After more than 20 years of research and tinkering, it was time to celebrate.
Stanley Allen Meyer, his brother and two Belgian investors raised glasses in the Grove City Cracker Barrel on March 20, 1998.
Meyer said his invention could do what physicists say is impossible -- turn water into hydrogen fuel efficiently enough to drive his dune buggy cross-country on 20 gallons straight from the tap.
He took a sip of cranberry juice. Then he grabbed his neck, bolted out the door, dropped to his knees and vomited violently.
"I ran outside and asked him, 'What's wrong?' " his brother, Stephen Meyer, recalled. "He said, 'They poisoned me.' That was his dying declaration."
'Cloak and dagger'

Stanley Meyer's bizarre death at age 57 ended work that, if proved valid, could have ended reliance on fossil fuels.
People who knew him say his work drew worldwide attention: mysterious visitors from overseas, government spying and lucrative buyout offers.
His death sparked a three-month investigation that consumed and fascinated Grove City police.
"Meyer's death was laced with all sorts of stories of conspiracy, cloak-and-dagger stories," said Grove City Police Lt. Steve Robinette, lead detective on the case.
If Stephen Meyer was shocked at his twin brother's collapse and death, he was equally amazed at the Belgians' response the next day.
"I told them that Stan had died and they never said a word," he recalled, "absolutely nothing, no condolences, no questions.
"I never, ever had a trust of those two men ever again."
Today, Stanley Meyer is featured on numerous Internet sites. A significant portion of the 1995 documentary It Runs on Water, narrated by science-fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke and aired on the BBC, focuses on his "water fuel cell" invention.
James Robey wants a permanent place for Meyer in his Kentucky Water Fuel Museum.
"He was ignored, called a fraud and died without his small hometown even remembering him with so much as a plaque," Robey wrote in his self-published book Water Car.
Meyer had euphoric highs and humiliating defeats. He was kind and generous yet paranoid and suspicious. He would be hailed as a visionary and a genius. He also would be sued and declared a fraud.
As many of his more than 20 patents expire this year, and gasoline prices hover around $3 per gallon, there is growing interest in his inventions. But it remains unclear how much was true science and how much was science fiction.
'Always building'

Meyer was born and lived on Columbus' East Side before moving to Grandview Heights, where he finished high school.
He briefly attended Ohio State University and joined the military.
"We were always building something," Stephen Meyer recalled of their youth. "We went out and created our toys."
At 6 feet 3 and with a booming voice, Stanley Meyer was charismatic and persuasive, equally conversant with physicists and bricklayers.
He was also eccentric. His favorite phrase was "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition," friends said.
He once called Grove City police to his home and laboratory on Broadway to report a suspicious package. The Columbus bomb squad detonated the parcel, only to discover it was equipment that he had ordered.
His focus on water as a fuel began in earnest in 1975, a year after the end of the Arab oil embargo, which had triggered high gas prices, gas-pump lines and anxiety.
"It became imperative that we must try to bring in an alternative fuel source and do it very quickly," Meyer says in the documentary.
'Something for nothing'

The basis for Meyer's research, electrolysis, is taught in middle-school science labs.
Electricity flows through water, cracking the molecules and filling test tubes with oxygen and hydrogen bubbles. A match is lighted. The volatile gases explode to prove that water has separated into its components.
Meyer said his invention did so using much less electricity than physicists say is possible. Videos show his contraptions turning water into a frothy mix within seconds.
"It takes so much energy to separate the H2 from the O," said Ohio State University professor emeritus Neville Reay, a physicist for more than 41 years. "That energy has pretty much not changed with time. It's a fixed amount, and nothing changes that."
Meyer's work defies the Law of Conservation of Energy, which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed.
"Basically, it says you can't get something for nothing," Reay said.
"He may have had a nice way to store the hydrogen and use it to make a very effective motor, but there is no way to do something fancy and separate hydrogen with less energy."
'I was a sucker'

Nevertheless, Meyer attracted believers, investors and, eventually, legal trouble.
"I was a sucker for some of this stuff at the time," William E. Brooks said from his home in Anchorage, Alaska.
Brooks invested more than $300,000 in Meyer's technology. He hoped to find applications for his aviation business.
Today, he and his wife, Lorraine, laugh about the ordeal, made easier because their money was returned in a 1994 settlement in Franklin County Common Pleas Court.
Two years later, a Fayette County judge found "gross and egregious fraud" in Meyer's contract negotiation with two businessmen. Their money was returned.
Roger L. Hurley, a retired Darke County judge, defended Meyer and still believes in him.
"I would not represent someone who I would consider to be a shyster or a bum," said Hurley. "He was a nice guy."
'The Lord sent me'

Meyer's creativity seemed to peak after he met Charles and Valorie Hughes, truck drivers who lived in Jackson Township.
Julia Hughes, the youngest of their seven children, was 5 years old when Meyer rang the doorbell of her home on Marlane Drive.
"His first few words were, 'The Lord sent me here to this home; I'd like to use your home as an experiment,' " she said.
Maybe it was the two-story garage-shop or the privacy of towering oak and sycamore trees; Julia isn't sure what Meyer saw there. But she knew her parents didn't have room for a struggling inventor.
Yet after visiting with the family for several hours, Meyer stayed the night, and then the next few years in the late 1970s.
In return, Meyer built the family a solar silo, designed to both heat and cool the home. The structure required thousands of clear resin "light guides," a crude form of fiber optics, which Meyer baked and molded in the family kitchen. Julia Hughes recalled the chemical stench.
The system was supposed to channel the sun's rays into the tower's base to heat water and generate electricity for an air conditioner. Despite extensive efforts that included re-plumbing the house, the invention never worked.
That didn't bother Charles Hughes, Julia's father, who is retired in Jackson, Ohio.
He would see Meyer power his tractor for 15 minutes on well water, he said. He would put his nose to the exhaust.
"There was no fumes whatsoever," he recalled. "It was just clean, hot air.
"He was just very trustworthy, very religious. I just had the feeling that he would not take anything from me, and he never did," Mr. Hughes said.
'Sell out or sit on it'

Belief in Meyer continues today. So does suspicion about plots to silence him.
Stephen Meyer recalled a phone call to his brother's home in the 1980s.
"He turned to me and said, 'They just offered me $800 million. Should I take it?'
"I said, 'Hell yes. How much money do you want?'
"He got very quiet. When he got into that thinking process, I just let him alone," Stephen recalled.
Charlie Hughes, now 36, vividly recalls the strangers who visited his parents' home in the late 1970s.
He had been playing outside when the driveway suddenly filled with limousines. Men in turbans stepped out. In "stern, thick accents," they asked for Meyer. "I remember, because I was not allowed in my own house that day."
They left briskly. Charlie was about to go inside when the driveway filled again, this time with military vehicles. "Army brass," he recalled.
At dinner that night, Meyer told them: "The Arabs wanted to offer me $250 million to stop today. You and this lovely family can live in peace and prosperity the rest of your days."
The Army officials, meanwhile, had questioned Meyer about what the foreigners wanted, thinking that a deal might have been struck, Charlie recalled Meyer telling the family.
Meyer discusses the offers in the Clarke documentary.
"Many times over the last decade, I have been offered enormous amounts of money simply to sell out or sit on it … The Arabs have offered me a total of a billion dollars total pay simply to sit on it and do nothing with it."
Coroner's report

The Grove City police investigation of Meyer's death included taped interviews of more than a dozen witnesses.
Absent, however, were audiotapes of the two Belgians, Phillippe Vandemoortele and Marc Vancraeyenest.
The men had agreed to purchase 56 acres along Seeds Road in Grove City. The city had approved a research campus there two months before Meyer's death.
Lt. Steve Robinette said it's possible the men's interviews were not taped.
Calls and e-mails to Vandemoortele and Vancraeyenest for this story were not returned.
The Franklin County coroner ruled that Meyer, who had high blood pressure, died of a brain aneurysm. Absent any proof of foul play, the police went with the coroner's report.
The only detectable drugs were the pain reliever lidocaine and phenytoin, which is used to treat seizures.
And what became of the dune buggy that captivated a community for at least a few years?
A longtime friend of Meyer's, who doesn't want to be named because he fears that people will bother him about the invention, led a reporter to the basement of a property south of Columbus recently.
"I really shouldn't be showing you this," he said.
After passing through several darkened rooms scattered with computers and electrical equipment, he opened a door. In the far corner of a garage sat the buggy, its leather seats cracked, its engine partially covered with a cloth.
A decal on the bright red paint declares: "Jesus Christ is Lord."
Then the man quickly led the way out. Lights went dark. Doors clicked shut.
In his front yard, he sat on a lawn chair and sipped fruit punch. He watched the cars and trucks drive by on the road, burning gasoline.
dnarciso@dispatch.com
"Meyer's death was laced with all sorts of stories of conspiracy, cloak-and-dagger stories."
Lt. Steve Robinette
lead detective on the case for the Grove City police "His first words were, 'The Lord sent me here to this home; I'd like to use your home as an experiment.' "
Julia Hughes
who was 5 when Meyer moved in with her family and later built an experimental solar silo
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  #29  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:45 AM
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kazza kazza is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stein View Post
So how can you say anything on what I said when you have no idea about what I am talking about? You SPECULATE my meaning and then reply to that?

I call that prejudice

Clearly you didn't see the videos.
So you saw it once and now your mind is made up and you will not look at the latest developments in this field?

I suppose you are entitled to your world view.


Makes sense. Although I cannot be sure when you closed your mind with your conclusion so this information you are giving me could be outdated.

I was actually revering to a video I haven't posted yet reffering to 4D energy tapping. But it would irrelevant to post it for you because you will only see what you already made your mind up about and skip the video LOL.

I am not saying it is or it isn't either. I am questioning the videos but what you say I cannot work with. It could be outdated.

Well you may be a Physicist but you are not a scientist. Scientist always consider the probability of new developments and expansion.
Oh don't be so indignant. Do you know how many crackpot ideas there are on the internet? "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

A youtube video will never convince me that the first law of thermodynamics has been broken. A youtube video will never convince me that aliens have landed. A youtube video will never convince me that Elvis is still alive, or that a UFO blew up the twin towers, or that Obama is secretly a lizard person.

Find some real evidence, and then get back to me (If, as you say, this device can be readily built by anyone, then there should be hundreds of thousands of people who can vouch for its performance).

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  #30  
Old 02-22-2012, 10:27 AM
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazza View Post
Oh don't be so indignant. Do you know how many crackpot ideas there are on the internet? "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

A youtube video will never convince me that the first law of thermodynamics has been broken. A youtube video will never convince me that aliens have landed. A youtube video will never convince me that Elvis is still alive, or that a UFO blew up the twin towers, or that Obama is secretly a lizard person.

Find some real evidence, and then get back to me (If, as you say, this device can be readily built by anyone, then there should be hundreds of thousands of people who can vouch for its performance).
I got you this from Tom Bearden's website Here

OCEANS OF FREE ENERGY
  • ZERO-POINT VACUUM ENERGY
  • DIRAC SEA
  • TIME DERIVATIVE FIELDS
  • MICRO ELECTRODYNAMIC FLUCTUATIONS
  • TELLURIC CURRENTS
  • EARTH'S CORE ENERGY
  • G-STRAIN ENERGY OF SPACETIME
Many links to explore.
Quote:
Criteria
The motionless energy generator

The Motionless Electromagnetic Generator (MEG)
One build-up has produced up to 100 times more power than was input
Overunity performance successfully replicated independently by other researchers
Inventors: Stephen L. Patrick, Thomas E. Bearden, James C. Hayes, Kenneth D. Moore, James L. Kenny
In Press (Foundations of Physics Letters)
Aharanov-Bohm Effect as the basis of Electromagnetic Energy inherent the Vacuum

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  #31  
Old 02-22-2012, 02:41 PM
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Kelderek Kelderek is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

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Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
I got you this from Tom Bearden's website
Oh yeah?
Well, try to get this: Websites do not produce free energy.

Find some real evidence.
Real evidence means that the device has been verified to work by independent tests.
Real evidence means that the experiment has been reproduced by someone else than the guy in the YouTube video.

Pictures from webstes is not evidence. Links is not evidence. YouTube videos with a guy telling you that he made a free energy device is not evidence.

Except for the gullible, of course...


Last edited by Kelderek : 02-22-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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  #32  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:32 PM
thistle thistle is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelderek View Post
Oh yeah?
Well, try to get this: Websites do not produce free energy.

Find some real evidence.
Real evidence means that the device has been verified to work by independent tests.
Real evidence means that the experiment has been reproduced by someone else than the guy in the YouTube video.

Pictures from webstes is not evidence. Links is not evidence. YouTube videos with a guy telling you that he made a free energy device is not evidence.

Except for the gullible, of course...
But ... but ... wait, you mean the internet lies to me?? I don't believe it

And that guy in particular sounds like an honest expert to me.




Thomas Bearden

Bearden has little formal training in physics and one analysis of these theories describes them as "full of misconceptions and misunderstandings concerning the theory of the electromagnetic field".[10] At his website and in correspondence, Bearden identifies himself as "PhD"[11] and claims he received a doctorate for "life experience and for life accomplishment".[12] The Skeptical Inquirer, among others, revealed that he purchased his Ph.D. from Trinity College and University, which the magazine describes as "a British institution with no building, campus, faculty, or president, and run from a post office box in Sioux Falls, South Dakota".

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  #33  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:35 PM
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nomaxim nomaxim is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

From Motionless electromagnetic generator [Wiki];
Quote:
The motionless electromagnetic generator (MEG) is a proposed device which claims over-unity operation, which would violate the first law of thermodynamics. Allegedly, the device can eventually sustain its operation in addition to powering a load without application of external electrical power, by extraction of vacuum energy from the immediate environment. U.S. Patent 6,362,718 was issued to inventors Thomas E. Bearden, Stephen L. Patrick, James C. Hayes, James L. Kenny, and Kenneth D. Moore in 2002.

The MEG has never been independently verified and there is no known working prototype.[1] Skeptics point out that the device strongly resembles a standard transformer, with the exception of a permanent magnet and two actuator coils being included in the design. They also strongly criticize Bearden's methods and concepts in general.[1]

History and controversy
In 2001, Bearden predicted that the first commercial products based on the MEG would be "rolling off the production lines in about one year",[2] and as early as 2002 claimed to have a prototype of the device that produced "100 times more power out than was input".[3] It was promoted through JLNlabs,[4] Cheniere.org,[5] and an Egroup called "MEG Builders".[6] In May 2008, with the MEG still not in production, Tom Bearden claimed he needed about $11 million to develop it to a viable commercial form.[7] Bearden also admitted he had no working prototype, stating the 'last working demonstrator was promptly destroyed'.[8] In 2009, he claimed that development was "on hold" pending the release of funds from the UN.[9] As of 2011, the MEG is still not in production. Bearden has given no details as to what further development is needed.

Thomas Bearden
Bearden has little formal training in physics and one analysis of these theories describes them as "full of misconceptions and misunderstandings concerning the theory of the electromagnetic field".[10] At his website and in correspondence, Bearden identifies himself as "PhD"[11] and claims he received a doctorate for "life experience and for life accomplishment".[12] The Skeptical Inquirer, among others, revealed that he purchased his Ph.D. from Trinity College and University, which the magazine describes as "a British institution with no building, campus, faculty, or president, and run from a post office box in Sioux Falls, South Dakota".[13]
The 13 references can be found on the Wiki link.

Further information on Trinity College and University (Wiki);
Quote:
The institution claims to be accredited by the Association for Online Academic Excellence (AOAE), but this is not a recognized accreditation association of higher learning.[3] It has been listed as a diploma mill by the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. [4]

Course descriptions found on the institution's now defunct website were copied verbatim from the course offerings of Thomas Edison State College.[5][6]
......
United Nations scandal
In February 2007 the Associated Press reported that several employees of the United Nations had lost their jobs when it was revealed they had listed Trinity College and University degrees on their resumes.[13] A representative of the UN was quoted as saying that one staff member's misrepresentation of his Trinity credentials as being from a legitimate university was considered "serious misconduct".[13] The article described Trinity as a "diploma-sales business" and noted that the institution was "actively pursuing the soldiers in Iraq" as customers for college degrees.[13]

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  #34  
Old 02-23-2012, 01:23 AM
1stein's Avatar
1stein 1stein is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelderek View Post
Oh yeah?
Well, try to get this: Websites do not produce free energy.

Find some real evidence.
Real evidence means that the device has been verified to work by independent tests.
Real evidence means that the experiment has been reproduced by someone else than the guy in the YouTube video.

Pictures from webstes is not evidence. Links is not evidence. YouTube videos with a guy telling you that he made a free energy device is not evidence.

Except for the gullible, of course...
Yeah there are many things websites don't do. There are many things books don't do. Yet we learn from them and then WE do things to prove to ourself whether they are right or not..

The booster I made works exactly as the WEBSITE said it would. Giving me about 25% savings on fuel.

The pyramids I made works exactly as said. Changing the properties of red wine (test) and making Yogurt

The colloidal silver I bought works exactly as they said it would. The Colloidal silver maker I made later works exactly as claimed. It cured my ex wife from food poising in one day. (Her colleagues who attended the same party were off sick for a week and a half.)

The "Violet ray" heals exactly as they said it would and saved my father from being amputated with Gangrene.Saved my friend from a cancer removal operation and later cured his cancer.

The apricot kernel cancer cure worked exactly as the video said it would. Saved a local guy from dying of terminal cancer in six months. Nine months later the doctors shouted. SPONTANEOUS remission!! Dumb asses were taught to close their minds to any other option.

If you think its placebo then give me more placebo. Because it works and it also proves "mind over matter" that most skeptics probably don't believe in..

The only way to really know is first of all to open your mind to the probability that it is true, then to study how it works and then to make one yourself and test it.

Only then can you really know for sure.

I have tried many 'pseudo' claims and to my amazement they all worked. Maybe I am just lucky that I chose the ones that was genuine.The more they worked the more open I became to believing the ones I haven't tried yet.

I have yet to try a claim that does not work. But as a disclaimer I also keep my mind open to scams. I never pay for anything from the internet. I get information from a few sources before I try it.

Imagine the Wilbour brothers learning to build and aircraft by studying the "staying on the ground" of things.NO They looked at birds. They didn't consult with any tortoises.

I had to open my mind to studying the probability of the things I wanted to try and then speak and listen to people who succeeded in doing so.

If I listened with a closed mind to skeptics I would probably be sitting on forums telling every open mind that he is a nutter and that these things don't work.

Col or Dr Tom Bearden claims there are a lot of myths that quantum students believe in. I will choose to believe him rather than some close mind on a forum who learned the approved curriculum.

Many of these "inventors" failed along the way. Thats how they eventually succeeded. Now you can look at the history of their failures and choose to discard them and remain stupid. Or you can look at what their failures taught them and how they succeeded and study that.
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  #35  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:18 AM
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Kelderek Kelderek is offline
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Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stein View Post
Yeah there are many things websites don't do. There are many things books don't do. Yet we learn from them and then WE do things to prove to ourself whether they are right or not..

The booster I made works exactly as the WEBSITE said it would. Giving me about 25% savings on fuel.

The pyramids I made works exactly as said. Changing the properties of red wine (test) and making Yogurt

The colloidal silver I bought works exactly as they said it would. The Colloidal silver maker I made later works exactly as claimed. It cured my ex wife from food poising in one day. (Her colleagues who attended the same party were off sick for a week and a half.)

The "Violet ray" heals exactly as they said it would and saved my father from being amputated with Gangrene.Saved my friend from a cancer removal operation and later cured his cancer.

The apricot kernel cancer cure worked exactly as the video said it would. Saved a local guy from dying of terminal cancer in six months. Nine months later the doctors shouted. SPONTANEOUS remission!! Dumb asses were taught to close their minds to any other option.

If you think its placebo then give me more placebo. Because it works and it also proves "mind over matter" that most skeptics probably don't believe in..

The only way to really know is first of all to open your mind to the probability that it is true, then to study how it works and then to make one yourself and test it.

Only then can you really know for sure.

I have tried many 'pseudo' claims and to my amazement they all worked. Maybe I am just lucky that I chose the ones that was genuine.The more they worked the more open I became to believing the ones I haven't tried yet.

I have yet to try a claim that does not work. But as a disclaimer I also keep my mind open to scams. I never pay for anything from the internet. I get information from a few sources before I try it.

Imagine the Wilbour brothers learning to build and aircraft by studying the "staying on the ground" of things.NO They looked at birds. They didn't consult with any tortoises.

I had to open my mind to studying the probability of the things I wanted to try and then speak and listen to people who succeeded in doing so.

If I listened with a closed mind to skeptics I would probably be sitting on forums telling every open mind that he is a nutter and that these things don't work.

Col or Dr Tom Bearden claims there are a lot of myths that quantum students believe in. I will choose to believe him rather than some close mind on a forum who learned the approved curriculum.

Many of these "inventors" failed along the way. Thats how they eventually succeeded. Now you can look at the history of their failures and choose to discard them and remain stupid. Or you can look at what their failures taught them and how they succeeded and study that.
Very interesting, but did it have anything to do with the topic? Unless you can get free energy from apricot kernels, of course...

There are a lot of things we can still learn and there are a lot of things yet to be discovered. There are great minds at work with that and I'm sure all of us with an open mind will benefit from it.

But... there are also charlatans out there trying to prey on the ignorant and make a buck from the gullible.
That's why a certain healthy skepticism is apporopriate when someone makes a claim that go against 99,9% of the people working in the same field.

I'm not going into the medical properties of apricot kernels because I don't know anything about that. I do know a few things about physics, however, so when I see someone claiming to make "free energy", I remain skeptic until they can prove that it works.

There is a very simple method that is used throughout the scientific community:
Have someone else repeat the experiment.

It's as easy as that. When we see someone else than the "inventor" build that free energy device and make it work as described, then we're there. Then it's verfied.

"Dr" Tom Bearden can write whatever he wants on his website, but unless he can show a working machine, then he has no working machine to show.
Until someone else can repeat his experiments according to his theories, then he has nothing but empty words.

It's as easy as that.

That's how science works. That's the way it has worked throughout centuries. People develop theories and try things according to these theories. If it works, other people try the same and verifies it.

Easy.
Now... Why can't Col Tom Bearden get someone credible to repeat his experiments?

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  #36  
Old 02-23-2012, 04:20 PM
LogicallyYours's Avatar
LogicallyYours LogicallyYours is offline
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Posts: 6,378
Re: Breaking the myth. Nothing is for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stein View Post
Yeah there are many things websites don't do. There are many things books don't do. Yet we learn from them and then WE do things to prove to ourself whether they are right or not..

The booster I made works exactly as the WEBSITE said it would. Giving me about 25% savings on fuel.

The pyramids I made works exactly as said. Changing the properties of red wine (test) and making Yogurt

The colloidal silver I bought works exactly as they said it would. The Colloidal silver maker I made later works exactly as claimed. It cured my ex wife from food poising in one day. (Her colleagues who attended the same party were off sick for a week and a half.)

The "Violet ray" heals exactly as they said it would and saved my father from being amputated with Gangrene.Saved my friend from a cancer removal operation and later cured his cancer.

The apricot kernel cancer cure worked exactly as the video said it would. Saved a local guy from dying of terminal cancer in six months. Nine months later the doctors shouted. SPONTANEOUS remission!! Dumb asses were taught to close their minds to any other option.

If you think its placebo then give me more placebo. Because it works and it also proves "mind over matter" that most skeptics probably don't believe in..

The only way to really know is first of all to open your mind to the probability that it is true, then to study how it works and then to make one yourself and test it.

Only then can you really know for sure.

I have tried many 'pseudo' claims and to my amazement they all worked. Maybe I am just lucky that I chose the ones that was genuine.The more they worked the more open I became to believing the ones I haven't tried yet.

I have yet to try a claim that does not work. But as a disclaimer I also keep my mind open to scams. I never pay for anything from the internet. I get information from a few sources before I try it.

Imagine the Wilbour brothers learning to build and aircraft by studying the "staying on the ground" of things.NO They looked at birds. They didn't consult with any tortoises.

I had to open my mind to studying the probability of the things I wanted to try and then speak and listen to people who succeeded in doing so.

If I listened with a closed mind to skeptics I would probably be sitting on forums telling every open mind that he is a nutter and that these things don't work.

Col or Dr Tom Bearden claims there are a lot of myths that quantum students believe in. I will choose to believe him rather than some close mind on a forum who learned the approved curriculum.

Many of these "inventors" failed along the way. Thats how they eventually succeeded. Now you can look at the history of their failures and choose to discard them and remain stupid. Or you can look at what their failures taught them and how they succeeded and study that.
Just too effin laughable.
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