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  #343  
Old 11-01-2011, 11:58 AM
Yawn...'s Avatar
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZGuy View Post
.....
I don't know of a single company in the history of dividend paying whole life that missed a single dividend let alone all of them!!!
.....
The non-guaranteed side will also show you the projected dividends going forward. These are realistic projections and every effort is made to make them come true.
....
Thanks for the contribution ! You did clarify the illustrated values vs. the CVS - for me anyway.....

On a couple of points you made (In Bold above):
1) Mutual Benefit Life failed in (I think 1992) and therefore the policy holders did not receive their dividend credit - indeed a rare exception. Although the class of insurance companies to which we are referring NY Life etc. have little risk of failure.
2) I think the proper term (financial/accounting term) for the illustrated values that are not guaranteed is Hypothetical Illustration. Financial projections and forecasts are very different animals and are very unlike life insurance illustrated values. Granted this is a minor point, but re your statement that these hypothetical illustration are realistic..... In my view they more similar to estimates, and are not necessarily 'realistic' of future returns or values. Rather, they are estimates future values with and within a range of possible outcomes. Unfortunately, the insurance industry is not clear on this matter.

But, in reality, what the heck is the difference of +/- 1 or 2% on an illustrated vs. actual IRR at 30 years - not very much...... and it really is next to impossible to predict out that far.


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  #344  
Old 11-16-2011, 06:54 AM
AZGuy AZGuy is offline
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

Hi Yawn... thanks for the feedback and I'm glad I only said I don't know of any companies that skipped a dividend and I didn't say it never happened!

I looked into the Mutual Benefit's situation and that brings up some important things to know about the way insurance companies that get in trouble are handled.

I'm not sure if any dividends were missed but I do know the policies were sold off to various other companies and managed by the new company.

Much of the problem they encountered was due to having to many real estate loans in their portfolio and experiencing a "run on the bank" situation where a great number of their policy holders cashed in their policies at the same time.

The found themselves unable to meet the obligation because too much of their portfolio was in non liquid assets. It's easy to sell a treasury bond and it's a very short turn around to get the money but it's not so easy to call in a real estate loan and it's a much longer turn around.

I can't speak for all companies out there however the ones I place most of my business with have no problem with liquidity and in fact they could cash in all policies on the books and still have millions in reserve.

I actually looked up the definition of financial forecast and financial projections.

Financial forecasts and financial projections are prospective financial statements that present an entity's expected financial position, results of operations, and cash flows in future periods under two different conditions.

Financial forecasts assume that the entity will continue to function in the manner in which it is currently functioning. For example, if the entity is a retail store chain, that it will continue to do business in the manner in which it is currently engaged. The financial forecast presents the predicted results for the next year.

Financial projections, on the other hand, make one or more hypothetical assumptions about an entity's future course of action. For example, if the retail store chain were considering a Web site at which it would also sell merchandise—in addition to the merchandise sold in the stores—a financial projection would provide expected results.

In my opinion the Non-Guaranteed Illustration is closer to the Financial Forecast in it's based on the current dividend scale and business expense environment including mortality experience and the current interest rate environment.

As far as a hypothetical illustration in the financial world you would be referring to an illustration that shows what would have happened over a specific period of time if you had invested a certain amount in a mutual fund. They are also used to show how a certain fund may have performed against a benchmark fund.

The life insurance industry is very clear on the illustrations and how policies work but you definitely have to speak their language!

The three main parts that make up the divisible surplus which is where dividends come from are:

Mortality Expense
Extra Interest
Business Expenses

Mortality Expense simply put is how many people died. The actuaries use the law of large numbers and historical data to predict how many people of a certain age will die each year, until the last person from the group dies.

The margin of error is said to be statistically insignificant. I take that to mean it's very accurate and predictable over time!

The way whole life premiums are calculated when it comes to mortality expense the actuaries actually calculate in a little higher death rate to take in the possibility of variance especially in the early years.

It's like if you flip a coin you know over a great number of tries you will be roughly 50/50 heads vs. tails but the first 10 flips could all be one or the other.

So in the early years variance is covered by increasing the mortality experience which means the premium is increased. That's also why when you get a dividend it's taxed as return of premium and that is an advantage to the policy owner.

The Extra Interest comes from whatever interest they earn over the guaranteed rate. If for example you know you can get a yield of 6% but you only guarantee 3% when you get 6% you have 3% extra.

The guaranteed portion of the portfolio or investment interest received goes to the guaranteed side of the illustration and the guaranteed cash value increases.

You don't see a separate column for this but it is included in the cash value calculation on the guaranteed side of the illustration.

Using the lower guaranteed rate instead of the higher actual rate also causes an increase in the required premium so the extra interest is also part of the dividend and taxed as return of premium.

If you understand how a large bond portfolio is managed you know that there is a series of short, mid and long term bonds and a mix between Government Bonds and Corporate Bonds.

Most insurance companies use a benchmark of investment grade or BBB rated bonds as the minimum quality they will accept in the portfolio.

Most of the time you can price in a return for a fairly long term into the future so you have a pretty good idea what the yield will be for at least next few years.

Business expense takes into account all the expenses of running the company. I suppose this is the one category where in my opinion there is the most risk. Things like ****** costs, taxes, health care for employees etc. can fluctuate and it's pretty hard to predict very far into the future with accuracy.

However the actuaries do it and they inflate it again making the premiums higher and when a lower expense is experienced the difference goes into the dividend calculation and is taxed as return of premium as well.

With all that said you are absolutely correct in that the illustrations are nothing more than the companies best guess at what's going to happen in the future.

For example for the last 30 years interest has been declining but at the same time so has mortality experience.

My opinion is that it's a pretty educated guess and fairly accurate at least for the next few years.

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  #345  
Old 11-17-2011, 12:09 PM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZGuy View Post
....
With all that said you are absolutely correct in that the illustrations are nothing more than the companies best guess at what's going to happen in the future.

For example for the last 30 years interest has been declining but at the same time so has mortality experience.

My opinion is that it's a pretty educated guess and fairly accurate at least for the next few years.
Impressive, most folks do not know what projections and forecasts are.

Allow me to clarify my view: The illustration is hypothetical. It is not a financial forecast nor does it strictly qualify as financial projection.

The purpose of a hypothetical illustration, as far as I can ascertain, is for use by life insurance agents to sell product.

The fact that it is hypothetical is extremely unfortunate.

Other financial products are required to disclose past performance, which can be an indicator (but not always) of probable future results.

The insurance industry has seemed to have dodged this requirement.

As I have shown in prior posts, hypothetical illustrations have failed to achieve their hypothetically illustrated amounts and values.

If I were a life insurance agent, or a customer, my preference would be to have the ability to compare products side by side.

And the ability to compare the REAL performance of insurance companies historically - side by side - much as we do with most financial products sold in the US.

It is a disservice to the insurance industry and the public to be suck in this situation where irrational claims and emotional arguments are used to induce the sales of a financial product that is viable and important.

Specious arguments like; Term vs Whole Life, and nonsensical claims such as; 'recapture the cost of consumer purchases' via a super-duper 'BOY' plan fail to address the actual costs associated with life insurance, and the tangible and intangible benefits of the costs.

RE Term v Whole life - If the industry were to disclose the costs (not just the premium payment) of whole life, and basically be transparent in their various crediting methods, expenses etc. much of the controversy regarding this issue would be nullified.

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  #346  
Old 11-21-2011, 08:20 AM
AZGuy AZGuy is offline
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

Thanks but you shouldn't be all that impressed about my knowledge of forecasts and projections. Of course I had an idea what each is but when it comes to what the differences are I had to look it up!

I also looked up illustration:
An illustration is a displayed visualization form presented as a drawing, painting, photograph or other work of art that is created to elucidate or dictate sensual information (such as a story, poem or newspaper article) by providing a visual representation graphically.

In my opinion a Life Insurance Illustration is not a projection or a forecast and it's not necessarily hypothetical.

It's merely a picture of what could happen in the future that shows to unlikely outcomes.

The Guaranteed side is not likely because it's nearly impossible to have a dividend paying whole life policy that never pays a dividend. As I stated before I don't know of any that have skipped a single year (there may a few but it's very few) let alone all years.

The Non-Guaranteed side could be defined as hypothetical I suppose because it is saying this is what you can expect in the future under the current conditions. So the hypothetical question could be "What would it look like in the future if everything stays the same as it is today?"

The illustration will also include a summary that shows what would happen if all the dividends were paid at 50% of the current scale. So the hypothetical question would be "What would happen if the dividends were paid at 50%?"

There are many other hypothetical questions that could be asked here are a few...
"What happens if I can't pay my premiums any more after 10 years?"
"How much cash value will I have at age 70?"

The list is endless...

I've read may illustrations and I don't recall ever reading one that says it's anything other than an illustration.

You said:
"The purpose of a hypothetical illustration, as far as I can ascertain, is for use by life insurance agents to sell product."

I could read that to imply you think selling life insurance is somehow bad...

Since the creation of a Life Insurance Illustration is governed by each state and also required by each state my opinion is they are used because the states require them to be used.

Here's the State of Washington's reason for having them:

48.23A.005
Purpose — Standards for life insurance policy illustrations.
The purpose of this chapter is to provide standards for life insurance policy illustrations that will protect consumers and foster consumer education by providing illustration formats, prescribing standards to be followed when illustrations are used, and specifying the disclosures that are required in connection with illustrations. The goals of these standards are to ensure that illustrations do not mislead purchasers of life insurance and to make illustrations more understandable. Insurers will, as far as possible, eliminate the use of footnotes and caveates and define terms used in the illustration in language that would be understood by a typical person within the segment of the public to which the illustration is directed.


From the State of Maryland:

31.09.09.01

.01 Purpose.

The purpose of this chapter is to provide rules for life insurance policy illustrations that will protect consumers and foster consumer education. The chapter provides illustration formats, prescribes standards to be followed when illustrations are used, and specifies the disclosures that are required in connection with illustrations. The goals of this chapter are to ensure that illustrations do not mislead purchasers of life insurance and to make illustrations more understandable. Insurers will, as far as possible, eliminate the use of footnotes and caveats and define terms used in the illustration in language that can be understood by a typical person within the segment of the public to which the illustration is directed.

Each state has something similar so you can see the reason they are done the way they are done is because that's what the law says.

If you think agents love Whole Life Illustrations, I can tell you from personal knowledge and speaking for a couple hundred agents I know, most don't like them. They use them because they have to.

It's not because they are trying to hide anything it's because most of their clients don't understand them and make the wrong assumptions when they look at them.

Even though great pains have been taken to standardize them they can still be hard to read correctly.

So I respectfully reject your notion that they are only used to help agents sell product.

Next you said:

"The fact that it is hypothetical is extremely unfortunate."

I'm not exactly sure what your point is but it sounds like you would like something a little more certain.

The problem with being more absolute with Life Insurance Illustrations is there are too many moving parts.

For example if more or less people die over the years what can be done about it? I guess if not enough people die (which improves the performance for all policy holders) you could hire some shady characters to rectify that situation.

But what can be done if more die than predicted? You can't order them back to life!

Can you or anyone else tell me what bond interest rates are going to do over the next 50 or 60 years? No you can't and neither can anyone else.

So life insurance policies and their illustrations are structured to take those things into consideration and provide a death benefit to the beneficiaries no matter how old the insured lives and no matter what the interest rates are many years down the road.

The next sentence really makes me question your motives!

"Other financial products are required to disclose past performance, which can be an indicator (but not always) of probable future results."

The truth about this statement is that past performance is Never an indicator of probable future results!!!

Besides using past performance to illustrate a mutual fund is called a hypothetical illustration!!! So by it's very name it's hypothetical!!!

The hypothetical question that applies is "What can I expect in the future if things happen exactly as they did in the past?"

Your next sentence:

"The insurance industry has seemed to have dodged this requirement."

Wow!!! As a licensed insurance person who understands Dividend Paying Whole Life and the FACT that Mortality Expenses have come down over the last hundred years and Interest rates used to be much higher than they are today... I would say it might be an advantage to illustrate a policy using past performance.

You are implying this is somehow an advantage to the insurance industry and the truth is it's exactly the opposite.

The "Other financial products" you speak of can use any period in the past to do their hypothetical illustrations and they don't have to include taxes on things like short and long term gain dividends that are paid and reinvested in the fund. When you do one of these illustrations if it doesn't look good over the last 10 years you simple illustrate it over the last 20 or 30 if the fund has that much history.

So in my humble opinion it's exactly the opposite. Using past performance is an advantage to the "Other financial products".


Next:

"As I have shown in prior posts, hypothetical illustrations have failed to achieve their hypothetically illustrated amounts and values."

So what your saying here is that no one can predict the future with 100% accuracy?

I don't even know how to respond to your statement.

I haven't read any of your prior posts you speak of but I'm going out on a limb and assuming you showed some Illustrations by some companies that didn't come true. Even though it clearly states in each one of them that future dividends are never guaranteed and the dividend scale can change over time.

I don't understand this one either...

"If I were a life insurance agent, or a customer, my preference would be to have the ability to compare products side by side."

I'm not sure where you live but in the city, state and country I live in you are free to get illustrations from each and every company doing business in each state and compare them side by side.

Really?

"And the ability to compare the REAL performance of insurance companies historically - side by side - much as we do with most financial products sold in the US."


So you'll have to explain that to me because you can get historical financial information on every insurance company in the country and their historical dividend scales. All you have to do is ask.

Of course I don't know what good it will do you other than the realization that for the most part Life Insurance Companies have withstood the test of time including depressions, recessions, presidential assassinations, many wars and still paid dividends every year!

How many of the other products your speaking of can give you a history of more than 100 years? How many have withstood the test of time?

Are you speaking of the many companies that used to be on the Dow or the S&P 500 that don't even exist today?

Are you speaking about the bank CD's that don't pay much if any interest and allow the bank to leverage your money at such a high rate that it recently took this country to the brink of disaster?

You'll have to clarify that one for me!

You may actually have a point on this one...

"It is a disservice to the insurance industry and the public to be suck in this situation where irrational claims and emotional arguments are used to induce the sales of a financial product that is viable and important."


Like one of my mentors once said "If people truly understood Dividend Paying Whole Life they would buy it from vending machines."

On the other hand am I to assume that any of the "Other financial products" have ever used anything even resembling rational claims to promote their products?

Seriously?

"Specious arguments like; Term vs Whole Life, and nonsensical claims such as; 'recapture the cost of consumer purchases' via a super-duper 'BOY' plan fail to address the actual costs associated with life insurance, and the tangible and intangible benefits of the costs."


Wow! I had to look up "Specious" (it's not something I run across every day... or ever) and on one hand I agree. Buy term and invest the difference was certainly specious.

However your comments regarding a super-duper 'BOY' plan are just mean spirited and have no place in an informational forum.

I happen to be very familiar with the super-duper 'BOY' plan and it's unfortunate you don't understand the concept of capital management.

As far as addressing the actual costs associated with life insurance, and the tangible and intangible benefits of the costs.

I'm sure that statement could be addressed if anyone could understand what the question is. Maybe it's just me but I'm really having difficulty with "tangible and intangible benefits of the costs."

I think you should lighten up on Pamela Yellen - you wouldn't even be having this discussion if it weren't for her. In fact I believe it the day ever comes when enough people understand the Bank On Yourself Concept explained in her book... I believe she'll win the Nobel Peace Prize for her efforts!

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  #347  
Old 11-21-2011, 10:00 AM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

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Originally Posted by AZGuy View Post
....I believe she'll win the Nobel Peace Prize for her efforts!
Nobel Peace Prize..... You can't be serious.

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  #348  
Old 11-22-2011, 03:37 AM
AZGuy AZGuy is offline
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

I see your point! The Nobel Peace Prize somehow isn't what it used to be...

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  #349  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:23 PM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZGuy View Post
I see your point! The Nobel Peace Prize somehow isn't what it used to be...
Wow....

I suppose the inference in that statement relates in some manner to President Obama.

Moving on...
Quote:
I happen to be very familiar with the super-duper 'BOY' plan and it's unfortunate you don't understand the concept of capital management.

As far as addressing the actual costs associated with life insurance, and the tangible and intangible benefits of the costs.

I'm sure that statement could be addressed if anyone could understand what the question is. Maybe it's just me but I'm really having difficulty with "tangible and intangible benefits of the costs."
I did not state a question, rather, an opinion that the insurance industry and the public would be better served if the costs (internal costs) associated with life insurance would be more transparent and disclosed. Further, the crediting methods for insurance dividends should be more fully understood and disclosed as well as the expenses.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a consumer to know how the cost of the contract is calculated. For example, I have not seen what the sales charges are for the whole life contract I purchased a number of years ago. The agent did verbally disclose what his commission was, however, it was not the full sales charge. Nor do I fully understand the methodology used by my insurer to credit my contract.

In my view, the hypothetical illustration model falls short of accomplishing the above mentioned items. It is an unfortunate that The Insurance Marketplace Standards Association, along with the National Association of Insurance Commissioners model legislation adopted (I assume) by all states requires the hypothetical illustration model to be provided to purchasers.

I think you stated that you either do not use it, or use it to a limited extent, when selling insurance - or words to that effect.

I think it would be better for you, and purchasers of insurance, to have a disclosure piece that was more understandable and of better utility.

As it stands now, the thing looks like a eye chart.

Regarding your not understanding intangible benefits, benefits and their costs.

Simply put one aspect of managing capital is the process of ascertaining choices, given a finite (limited) amount of capital. Basic cost vs. benefit derived analysis from the capital invested. The intangible benefit is knowing one has coverage, the benefit is the payout and the value of the asset (more or less the CSV) but all this comes at a cost - what one pays for the policy - And, at times, the lost opportunity costs of the resources used by purchasing.

It is more or less common sense stuff.

Do you think your purchasers of insurance would be better served if those costs were disclosed?

And, would your vocation be easier if there was more transparency is the sales process?

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  #350  
Old 11-23-2011, 07:32 AM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

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Originally Posted by AZGuy View Post
...So you'll have to explain that to me because you can get historical financial information on every insurance company in the country and their historical dividend scales. All you have to do is ask. ...
OK, I'm asking! Can you provide me with the historical dividend scales (actual) for the primary life insurers in the US.

Moving ON...

Lafayette Life has a premium of $4300, with 30y IRR @ 3.62
Security Mutual Life premium of $3473, with 30y IRR @ 4.98
Ohio National Life premium of $3,678, with 30y IRR @ 6.03

Those spreads are significant:
The difference in premium High/Low = 827 and IRR 2.4 percentage points

Why are Lafayette Life premiums high and returns low compared to the other companies below?

Can someone explain this to me.

Thanks

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  #351  
Old 11-23-2011, 12:42 PM
lifeisgood59 lifeisgood59 is offline
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

What do you fellows think of Northwestern? Midpoint premium between the two companies you mentioned, a high IRR of 5.81%, good DB IRR, AAA rating with ALL rating agencies, it's been around for 150 years and it has very good reputation.

Only drawback is I do believe you can only sell Northwestern as a captive agent.

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  #352  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:39 PM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

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Originally Posted by lifeisgood59 View Post
What do you fellows think of Northwestern? Midpoint premium between the two companies you mentioned, a high IRR of 5.81%, good DB IRR, AAA rating with ALL rating agencies, it's been around for 150 years and it has very good reputation.

Only drawback is I do believe you can only sell Northwestern as a captive agent.
If you are willing to pay $4170 in premiums for 10 years for NWM, over the less costly Ohio premiums.

You will have $11,000 more on CSV in year 10 with NWM.

I suppose one would have more borrowing power using the contract as collateral.

So, cost = $4170*, benefit = $11,000. The net different $6830

So the choice, more or less is could look like this:
1) $4170* in the bank, or
2) $11,000 in CSV,

If you are willing and able to pay more for the the insurance....

*assuming zero return

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  #353  
Old 11-25-2011, 10:53 AM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

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Originally Posted by AZGuy View Post
....I happen to be very familiar with the super-duper 'BOY' plan and it's unfortunate you don't understand the concept of capital management.....
Indeed, I do struggle with the concept of capital management.

Can someone help me out with this.

I am having trouble understanding the below chart.

Why does Lafayette Life's cost exceed the CVS net benefit?

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  #354  
Old 11-27-2011, 07:14 PM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZGuy View Post
.......These are realistic projections and every effort is made to make them come true .....
Insurance companies are pretty good at predicting the future and are reluctant to change the dividend scale but they are forced to from time to time. '
.........
Realistic projections..... good at predicting the future..... change the dividend from time to time?

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  #355  
Old 11-28-2011, 12:42 PM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZGuy View Post
............
I happen to be very familiar with the super-duper 'BOY' plan and it's unfortunate you don't understand the concept of capital management.
....
I think you should lighten up on Pamela Yellen -

... I believe she'll win the Nobel Peace Prize for her efforts!
AZGuy:
Below is a marketing piece copy-writed by Pamela Yellen. The title of the PDF is 'The Killer Way'.
Yikes, the Killer Way. And you say I should lighten up?

My question:
How exactly does one recapture the entire purchaser price of your cars using a BOY plan?

Please explain.

http://usasure.com/the%20killer%20way.pdf
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  #356  
Old 11-29-2011, 12:35 AM
lifeisgood59 lifeisgood59 is offline
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

It doesn't !!!!!

I guess it's back to square one. But there was a lot of great information on this post. I think all of us learned a lot. I know I did!

By the way, I attempted recently to go into "fulldisclosure.com" to check competing life insurance stats but I couldn't get in. Did they remove or change the name of the website?

Thanks!

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  #357  
Old 11-29-2011, 04:49 AM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

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Originally Posted by lifeisgood59 View Post
It doesn't !!!!!

I guess it's back to square one. But there was a lot of great information on this post. I think all of us learned a lot. I know I did!

By the way, I attempted recently to go into "fulldisclosure.com" to check competing life insurance stats but I couldn't get in. Did they remove or change the name of the website?

Thanks!
EXACTLY Pamela Yellen is simply a lying.

'Banking on Yourself' is a SCAM, at best it is simply a marketing pitch.

At worst a deceptive scheme to sell whole life insurance.

The 'Banking on Yourself' is a thinly veiled version of Infinite Banking, and of host of other 'CONCEPTS'.

Insurance agents have used this scheme to sell for since the dawn of time.

The technique can be applied to other life insurance products - universal life for example.

It can also be used for other structured financial products and financial plans.

If Yellen were to win the Noble Prize - it would be for literature, fiction.

However, I would find this very unlikely - the woman is a horrid writer. (Yup, I read the book)

Blease Research - http://www.full-disclosure.com/

If you have difficulty with the site, give them a call.

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  #358  
Old 11-30-2011, 09:34 AM
lifeisgood59 lifeisgood59 is offline
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

Thank you for the link!

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  #359  
Old 11-30-2011, 02:43 PM
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Re: Bank on Yourself?

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Originally Posted by lifeisgood59 View Post
Thank you for the link!
Anytime, lifeisgood59.

WFT !

Pamela Yellen: ...These leads are 'Lay-Downs' ....

NO SHE DIDN'T... YES SHE DID

Insurance agents referring to clients as Lay-Downs......

Isn't that an old used car sales phrase used when a salesman deceives a customer?

Listen to her live: http://ultimateinsurancesellingconcept.com/

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  #360  
Old 12-04-2011, 05:54 AM
drbeetee drbeetee is offline
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Re: Bank on Yourself/ Infinite Banking

Bdunklau....you are a godsend first of all have to tell you that.
I have been reading your posts for months in both Kiplinger and here. You make some really great points. I wanted to ask you a couple questions to clarify. First of all a mini disclaimer. I have read both IBS and BOY books and even though there seem to be mostly the same. I like Nelson Nash's approach better. I can't wait to meet him in person sometime this week.
I have been getting quotes from New York Life,and I have an insurance license and thinking of joining them. My quotes with Lafayette Life have seem to come out a little better. Would you have any insight to why? It seems like Lafayette Life pays better dividends. I know the basis of the plan isn't to get the best dividend, but more less to recapture most of the interest you would pay out to finance companies. Can you give me your opinion on using New York Life vs Lafayette. Also I had a quote for like 4000 dollars where 2900 was going to pua and the 1100 was going to regular cost of insurance and the dot. The maximum 7 pay premium had another 3-4k I could put in there. If I lowered the amount so I can fund the policy to the MEC limit, would that allow me to buy more PUA giving me a better return on the policy. They numbers that I have given you allowed me to break even on the policy around year 7 which seems to be about typical. I just want to make sure I don't sell my self short. Quite naturally if I have a good chance to be contracted with NYL and get paid on the policies I right for myself and my family and friends. Even if the projections come out a little better on the Lafayette Life side, it would be more advantageous to get contracted with NYL and write them myself. Again BDUNK thanks a lot for everything that you have offered to these blogs. By the way I was going to write this message on the other forum its just that I haven't been approved to post yet. Thanks ahead of time for your quick response. If any other EXPERT wants to way in feel free. No negative Nancy's though because I have done my research on these plans and they are awesome!


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