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  #1  
Old 07-18-2007, 10:33 AM
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JTB7 JTB7 is offline
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Global Warming

I have heard from many people that we are causing global warming and other people saying that the earth goes through cycles--the earth has been hotter before. Can someone describe to me if it is real or a scam?[evidence please]


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  #2  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:04 PM
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furbearingbrick furbearingbrick is offline
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Re: Global Warming

While it is undoubtably true that there are some cycles and natural variations in global climate, anyone who wishes to insist that the current warming is purely or even just mostly natural has two challenges. Firstly, they need to identify just what this alledged natural mechanism is because absent a forcing of some sort, there will be no change in global energy balance. So natural or otherwise we should be able to find this mysterious cause. Secondly, a "natural cause" proponent needs to come up with some explanation for how a 30% increase in the second most important Greenhouse Gas does not itself affect the global temperature.
In other words, there is a well developed, internally consistent theory that predicts the effects we are observing, so where is the sceptic model, or theory whereby CO2 does not affect the temperature and where is the evidence of some other natural forcing?

There is a fine historical example of a very dramatic and very regular climate cycle that can be read in the ice core records taken both in Greenland and in the Antarctic (http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig2-22.htm). A naive reading of this cycle indicates we should be experiencing a cooling trend now, and indeed we were very gradually cooling over the length of the preindustrial Holocene, something around .5C averaged over 8000 years. (see chart below)

It is informative to compare those fluctuations to today's changes. Leaving aside the descents into glaciation, which were much more gradual, the very sudden (geologically speaking) jumps up in temperature every ~100Kyrs actually represent a rate of change roughly ten times slower than the rate we are currently witnessing.
So could the current change be natural? Well, there is no identified natural cause (and they have been looked for), there is no theory of climate where CO2 does not drive the temperature and the natural cycle precedents do not show the same extreme reaction we are now witnessing.
(That would be a "No")
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2007, 01:19 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

FLASH
NEWS UPDATE: Global Warming Over

Australia--Coldest June since 1950
NSW--Coldest July since 1986



Last edited by phlipper : 07-23-2007 at 01:43 AM.
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2007, 04:34 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Fear of a global 'coldening'
By Tim Blair
July 14, 2007 12:00am

LAST month Australians endured our coldest June since 1950. Imagine that; all those trillions of tonnes of evil carbon we've horked up into the atmosphere over six decades of rampant industrialisation, and we're still getting the same icy weather we got during the Cold War........
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...001031,00.html


NSW in grip of coldest July since 1986
July 17, 2007 - 4:14PM

Snow and icy winds are predicted to hit western NSW on Wednesday as the entire state continues to shiver in the coldest July temperatures in two decades...........
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Nation...559773586.html

It appears we are entering a new
ICE AGE



Last edited by phlipper : 07-23-2007 at 04:41 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2007, 12:44 PM
bic bic is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Recent studies have proven scientifically that "global warming" is a myth.

Hypothesis: Is "global warming" a myth?

Method to test this hypothesis: Find out what right-wing blogs are writing about Al Gore.

Experimental results: Some right-wing blogs are accusing Al Gore of profiting from carbon offsets through his own company. (A company spokesman has effectively debunked these allegations, but that's just an inconvenient data point -- ignore it.)

Conclusion: Bingo.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's the New Scientific Method(tm).
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Last edited by bic : 07-25-2007 at 12:47 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-25-2007, 02:54 PM
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Re: Global Warming

I think that theory of "global warming" is an entire fabrication. :rolleyes:
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2007, 02:36 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiR
I think that theory of "global warming" is an entire fabrication. :rolleyes:
You are correct. :)


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  #8  
Old 07-26-2007, 02:40 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by bic
Recent studies have proven scientifically that "global warming" is a myth.

Hypothesis: Is "global warming" a myth?

Method to test this hypothesis: Find out what right-wing blogs are writing about Al Gore.

Experimental results: Some right-wing blogs are accusing Al Gore of profiting from carbon offsets through his own company. (A company spokesman has effectively debunked these allegations, but that's just an inconvenient data point -- ignore it.)

Conclusion: Bingo.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's the New Scientific Method(tm).
I see you entirely ignored the fact that Australia had the coldest June in over
50 YEARS!!
Just like you guys to ignore anything that goes against the brainwashers that programmed your little cult minds.



Last edited by phlipper : 07-26-2007 at 02:43 AM.
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2007, 02:54 AM
spanky spanky is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlipper
I see you entirely ignored the fact that Australia had the coldest June in over
50 YEARS!
Just like you guys to ignore anything that goes against the brainwashers that programmed your little cult minds.
I see you entirely ignored the fact that Australia had the coldest June in over
50 YEARS!

just
Just because Australia has had the coldest june since 1950 doesnt mean that next year it will be the coldest june on record....i will only believe your statement if there is an extended period of time that it remains relatively cold...Also is it just Australia thathas experienced this cold weather or is it Global....your theory that global warming doesnt exist just because one/two countries have experienced a cold snap doesnt stand on one foot and i should know.... i can stand on two feet!!

Come back in 10 years and let us know if the globe is experiencing a cold snap (a longtitudinal study) if you will then i might believe you


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  #10  
Old 07-26-2007, 03:32 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanky
I see you entirely ignored the fact that Australia had the coldest June in over
50 YEARS!

just
Just because Australia has had the coldest june since 1950 doesnt mean that next year it will be the coldest june on record....i will only believe your statement if there is an extended period of time that it remains relatively cold...Also is it just Australia thathas experienced this cold weather or is it Global....your theory that global warming doesnt exist just because one/two countries have experienced a cold snap doesnt stand on one foot and i should know.... i can stand on two feet!!

Come back in 10 years and let us know if the globe is experiencing a cold snap (a longtitudinal study) if you will then i might believe you
LOL...I never said that next year will be the same. You miss the point. It is the GW crowd that blames any heat wave anywhere or the severity of any hurricane in the world on GW and/or George Bush. The data simply do not support these wild assumptions. The following paragraphs from the article say it better:

"Not that June should be presented as evidence that global warming isn't happening, or that we're causing it. Relying on such a tiny sample would be unscientific and wrong, even if it involves an entire freakin' continent's weather patterns throughout the course of a whole month, for Christ's sake. No such foolishness will be indulged in here. Sadly, those who believe in global warming - and who would compel us also to believe - aren't similarly constrained. A few hot days are all they ever need to get the global warming bandwagon rolling"

Since the GW crowd LOVES annecdotal events, try this one:

"... during the time when CO2 emissions rose most rapidly in history (between 1940 and 1970) Earth temperatures actually fell."


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  #11  
Old 07-26-2007, 04:01 AM
scopes scopes is offline
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Re: Global Warming

I've said it before, and I have to say it at least another goddamn time, you can either argue whether global warming is real or not or you can argue whether treating our planet like sh!t is bad or not. The former is irrelevant in light of the latter, and if you need to be convinced that pollution is terrible then you need a full deck of playing cards slowly inserted into your rectum one at a time at a very agonizing pace. Boy Scouts taught me to leave a site cleaner than I found it, I think that should become international fvcking policy.


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  #12  
Old 07-26-2007, 06:16 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopes
I've said it before, and I have to say it at least another goddamn time, you can either argue whether global warming is real or not or you can argue whether treating our planet like sh!t is bad or not. The former is irrelevant in light of the latter, and if you need to be convinced that pollution is terrible then you need a full deck of playing cards slowly inserted into your rectum one at a time at a very agonizing pace. Boy Scouts taught me to leave a site cleaner than I found it, I think that should become international fvcking policy.
You make no sense. No one said we should treat this Earth poorly. What is your point? Is there too much CO2? Then, let's start looking at hydrogen. However, its production also comes at a cost. The argument is whether man-made CO2 is responsible for GW. Many of us believe it is not. Why spend trillions of our tax money on a useless "clean up" program? The only solutions you guys have is to tax productive countries like the US, GB, AUS and give the revenues to wacko environmental kooks. No Thanks. When it comes to warming, you guys need to
CHILL OUT!



Last edited by phlipper : 07-26-2007 at 06:19 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2007, 03:11 AM
bic bic is offline
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Re: Global Warming

In response to user TheWhizKids said in another thread:

"Gore's company claims they invest 15% into `green' tech and also claim they pay the companies they are partnered with for `carbon offsets'... it is very fishy stuff..."

No. GIM is an "Associate member" of the Chicago Climate Exchange, not a member. If I'm a member of some professional organization, it doesn't mean I'm suddenly a "partner" and I get to partake in their spoils -- quite the contrary.

Yes, it's "fishy" all right. Yeah, I know, Gore "may" be profiting from carbon offsets through tax rebates, he "may" be profiting from carbon offsets by way of some nefarious partnership with some nefarious company. May, may, may. Seriously, I smell some people engaged in a political witch-hunt, rather than a good old scientific inquiry which this whole issue should've been.

* * *

phlipper:

"50 YEARS!"
"CHILL OUT!"

Well, shouting in all caps is a surefire sign of the scientific method at work. As is the suggestion that one news item suddenly means that all the rest of the relevant research suddenly doesn't exist. Huh?

But since people are conducting cutting-edge scientific research into global warming by studying the writings of right-wing bloggers, I guess all this isn't too surprising...

Code:
           Proof that "Global Warming" is Bogus

no. of
bulls
^                            ---------
|                   ---------
|      ------      -
|  ----      ------
|--
|
+---------------------------------------> amount of bullcrap
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Last edited by bic : 07-28-2007 at 03:53 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2007, 03:52 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by bic
In response to user TheWhizKids said in another thread:

"Gore's company claims they invest 15% into `green' tech and also claim they pay the companies they are partnered with for `carbon offsets'... it is very fishy stuff..."

No. GIM is an "Associate member" of the Chicago Climate Exchange, not a member. If I'm a member of some professional organization, it doesn't mean I'm suddenly a "partner" and I get to partake in their spoils -- quite the contrary.

Yes, it's "fishy" all right. Yeah, I know, Gore "may" be profiting from carbon offsets through tax rebates, he "may" be profiting from carbon offsets by way of some nefarious partnership with some nefarious company. May, may, may. Seriously, I smell some people engaged in a political witch-hunt, rather than a good old scientific inquiry which this whole issue should've been.

* * *

phlipper:

"50 YEARS!"
"CHILL OUT!"

Well, shouting in all caps is a surefire sign of the scientific method at work.

But since people are conducting cutting-edge scientific research into global warming by studying the writings of right-wing bloggers, I guess that's not too surprising...

Code:
           Proof that "Global Warming" is Bogus

no. of
bulls
^                            ---------
|                   ---------
|      ------      -
|  ----      ------
|--
|
+---------------------------------------> amount of bullcrap
You are very clever!!
not


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  #15  
Old 07-28-2007, 06:08 AM
nomass nomass is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTB7
I have heard from many people that we are causing global warming and other people saying that the earth goes through cycles--the earth has been hotter before. Can someone describe to me if it is real or a scam?[evidence please]
Some pretty convincing Facts here. http://wwsnforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1096


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  #16  
Old 07-28-2007, 06:26 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomass
Some pretty convincing Facts here. http://wwsnforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1096
Thank you for that link. At least there are a few people around that can use their own brain rather than blindly fall into step with the global warming mind police!


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  #17  
Old 07-28-2007, 06:28 AM
phlipper phlipper is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTB7
I have heard from many people that we are causing global warming and other people saying that the earth goes through cycles--the earth has been hotter before. Can someone describe to me if it is real or a scam?[evidence please]
See the trouble you have caused?


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  #18  
Old 07-28-2007, 06:33 AM
TheWhizKids TheWhizKids is offline
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Re: Global Warming

Bic, I am glad you are finally admitting he “may” be profiting. However there is no disputing Al Gore is promoting the myth that “carbon offsets” absolves one of their “sins.” My posts (from another board) have always been about the indulgence scam of “carbon offsets” and the myth of “carbon neutral” through “carbon offsets” and perhaps I should not of included Al Gore because he has become the sacred cow of the global warmers an untouchable prophet of the church of man made global warming. To say anything against him is heresy and will bring out the wrath of hell. Even if it is true- and yes “carbon credits” are a scam and Al Gore knows it.

The fact of the matter is “carbon offsets” are allowing big business to continue to put out high amounts of green house gases instead of finding ways to reduces them (because buying “carbon offsets” is cheaper then getting rid of the Freon. It allows Hollywood and big corporate executives to clear their guilt so they can continue their 20,000+ KHW a month, Private Jet flying, SUV driving lifestyle and preach to me that I should do more because global warming is my fault because I produce 1/300th of the greenhouse gases they produce.

There is no evidence scientific or other wise that “carbon offsets” do anything. They are a profit making venture for those who play on the fear of the “faithful” and those who what to cheat international laws. Al Gore promotes this cheating and claims it will make you “carbon neutral” even when it doesn’t.

If you believe man and man alone is the cause of global warming because of our output of greenhouse gases then you have to be outraged by the scam of “carbon credits” and demand that those who claim to be the messengers of global warming practice what they preach. “Carbon offsets” are a scam and they do not eliminate the greenhouse gases you have produced.

Bic, instead of getting mad at me because I point out the scam of “carbon offsets” and hypocrisy of those who preach on how to live your life while flying in their private Jets, driving their SUV’s, and using 20,000 KHW of electricity a month you should be demanding that they stop because they are the one’s who are brining global warming to a head… or do you not really believe global warming is created by greenhouse gases- Hell carbon credits are just like Having a loaded gun pointed at your head and someone saying I have a magic powder which if you sprinkle it on the gun the bullets will not hurt you… Bic, get mad at the people promoting this stupidity not me for saying it is a scam.




Last edited by TheWhizKids : 07-28-2007 at 07:03 AM.
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